Are you paying for the name?

OctaneMotorsports · Nov 29, 2006

Let's be honest here.

When you buy SK/MAC/Matco/Snap-On/Blue-Point, etc., are you paying for the name?

Don't get me wrong, I have lots of high end tools such as the ones I mentioned. For some things, quality tools make a big difference. For example: precision measuring tools, air compressor, torque wrench, etc. But for the most part, is there really a big difference between decent tools such as Craftsman, Benchmark, Mastercraft etc. and the higher end tools?

Take this, for example:

I got this set of Mastercraft Maximum wrenches on sale for $35 CDN. To be fair, they cost $70 CDN retail:

A similar set from Snap-On (Metric, long handle, 10 pcs) costs $465 CDN, and you get one less wrench:

Now, I use Snap-On and Mastercraft Maximum wrenches back-to-back at work all the time and the only noticeable difference is that the Mastercraft Maximum are much more comfortable to use and feel better in your hand. Plus, should I ever break one, I can drive to a Canadian Tire in about 5 minutes and have it replaced under warranty. Or if I lose one, I go to Canadian tire and spend $10 for a new one...not $35. The same can be said for a lot of their tools. Yes, some of them are made in China or Taiwan, but like I said...they are top notch. Now I'm not saying all of their stuff is better, but a lot of it is the same or better. Just something to consider...

Don't get me wrong, sure I'd love to gave a full toolbox full of Snap-On. But when the same or better could be had for much less money, it just doesn't make sense. The same can be said for the other high end brands. What they charge for some of their stuff is ridiculous IMO. Just my two cents...

eschoendorff · Nov 29, 2006

OctaneMotorsports said:
Let's be honest here.

When you buy SK/MAC/Matco/Snap-On/Blue-Point, etc., are you paying for the name?

Don't get me wrong, I have lots of high end tools such as the ones I mentioned. For some things, quality tools make a big difference. For example: precision measuring tools, air compressor, torque wrench, etc. But for the most part, is there really a big difference between decent tools such as Craftsman, Benchmark, Mastercraft etc. and the higher end tools?

Take this, for example:

I got this set of Mastercraft Maximum wrenches on sale for $35 CDN. To be fair, they cost $70 CDN retail:

A similar set from Snap-On (Metric, long handle, 10 pcs) costs $465 CDN, and you get one less wrench:

Now, I use Snap-On and Mastercraft Maximum wrenches back-to-back at work all the time and the only noticeable difference is that the Mastercraft Maximum are much more comfortable to use and feel better in your hand. Plus, should I ever break one, I can drive to a Canadian Tire in about 5 minutes and have it replaced under warranty. Or if I lose one, I go to Canadian tire and spend $10 for a new one...not $35. The same can be said for a lot of their tools. Yes, some of them are made in China or Taiwan, but like I said...they are top notch. Now I'm not saying all of their stuff is better, but a lot of it is the same or better. Just something to consider...

yes, there are differences, but you will not likely notice most of them. the tool steel in the lesser brands is generally recycled steel whereas a company like Snap On will probably use virgin steel. The grain in the metal may be more uniform. The expensive tools go through more R&D and quality control. These are things that cost $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to do upfront, and then the Asians just copy them (and sometimes do a darn good job too - think flank drive. Everyone is doing it now!). Proto tools, for example, are certified to be use by NASA and governmentl agencies. That certification costs $$$$$. The Asian Proto knock-off may look similar, but may not carry those same certifications.

That's just what I can think of off the top of my head.

chevy302dz · Nov 29, 2006

When it comes to the tools that the high end companies actually make, there is a difference, not to say other brands are bad just the high end brands are better. Now other things that are by many companies from one company their is no difference other than the name and you should buy the cheapest.

OctaneMotorsports · Nov 29, 2006

There is absolutely a difference, for sure. I'm just asking if it's really worth it?

And yeah, stuff like the Gearwrench products. Lots of companies sell those, some cheaper than others. But they're all identical products.

TNToy · Nov 29, 2006

Is it really worth it? It depends.

If breaking a 12mm socket or wrench will only affect how long it takes you to change the blade on your lawnmower, then it's not a big deal.

If our customer is waiting, and a deep-offset-box wrench is the only thing that fits in there to remove their starter, and it breaks... then it's a bigger deal.

I use Snap-On & Matco for things that are worth it. Wrenches. Sockets. Ratchets. Screwdrivers. Pliers. For things like coolant pressure testers or battery chargers? You're absolutely paying for the name.

All of my ratcheting wrenches are gearwrench. I love 'em - I don't believe there's any difference in the ratcheting mechanism on all these wrenches. No matter whose name is stamped on them. Haven't broken one yet, but I use them primarily for fastener run-off and run-down - I don't exactly use braker bars on them.

kartracer55 · Nov 29, 2006

Sometimes. Take the cutting plier thread. Snap on's seem to be the most favorable, but they are almost 45$ IIRC. YOu can go to HF and get maybe 3 or 4 sets of pliers for that, but how long do you think that cheap steel will hold an edge? Id say not nearly as long as the snap-ons.

I was talking to my snap on dealer about this actually. Most, if not All blue point tools are based off of IR designs. Some are actually rebadged IR tools. All the chrome air tools that actually say snap on are made by them, but all of thier red "comfort" handled die grinders and such are manufactured by suiox. All snap on products are made by either snap on or one of the companies they own. So Id bet that CDI, being owned by snap on, is making thier torque wrenches.

It really all depends on what your buying. As TNT said, you cant really spend a half hour to drive to HF, get a tool warrantied and come back if the shop is packed and you have customers waiting. Sometiems paying a little extra off the truck is good because a good driver will take care of you. For example, The snap on guy at work can get almost anything for me by the end of the day if I really need it, where as the fastest you can usually get an oddball or job specific tool is overnight delivery.

MAtco stamped their name on the IR103 ratchet. Matco branded one is 145$, its 85$ from the tool warehouse. This I probably wont get off the truck, but sometimes its worth it

Jim

l_bilyk · Nov 30, 2006

Yeah but the thing is, mastercraft maximum = stanley
Some of that line is identical to mac, just dirt cheap
I dont think alot of people realize just how good the mastercraft maximum mechanics tools are in light of what you pay

toolfreak · Nov 30, 2006

Yeah I believe there is a difference with hand tools. I don't own any mac or matco tools so I can't give an opinion on them but snap on is worth the money if you use the tools for your job. Now alot of air tools, welding and cutting equipment, and specialty tools I think you are paying for the name. For example one of the plasma cutters is made by miller and pretty much identical to the miller cutmate 375 and is over a $1000 more. Actually I think that Precision instruments make Snap on torque wrenches but i have been known to be wrong a few times.

l_bilyk · Nov 30, 2006

CDI makes snappy torque wrenches

toolfreak · Nov 30, 2006

I thought by the looks of the snap on tq series and the precision instruments torque wrenches thats who they were made by. Does CDI make that style with the thumbwheel? . I would like to know because I am looking to upgrade to that series and would like to see if there is much of a price difference.

thefairlaneman · Nov 30, 2006

I like harbor freight.........China wants the business

Sack · Nov 30, 2006

I try not to pay for the name but have found that I usually rather buy on what I view the quality as. For example, I prefer Mac rachets. Don't know why. I have several Snap-on, Matco and Craftsman yet I always go back to the used Mac that I picked up for $5. For air tools I usually buy IR. Wrenches I have are mostly SK, but have a hodge-podge based on finding good used for really good deals etc.

Maybe I'd pay for higher end if I ran a professional shop, but I really had a problem with my local Matco guy. I'd bought a flex rachet that promptly fell apart the first time I used it and it took about 6 months for him to replace it. When I got the new one I sold it on ebay as I decided I don't need to deal with **** like that.

Uncle Buck · Nov 30, 2006

I think that in many instances there is a difference. Where the clear differences in quality become readily apparent is in older tools that have been used for some time, the cheap stuff really starts to look doggy. Wrenches, ratchets, sockets and such will show what they are really made of, whereas high quality tools will still have a quality look to the steel, even when the plating is going or gone. So differences do not appear as great when brand new, but more with use, age, and wear. :thumbup:

OctaneMotorsports · Nov 30, 2006

l_bilyk said:
Yeah but the thing is, mastercraft maximum = stanley
Some of that line is identical to mac, just dirt cheap
I dont think alot of people realize just how good the mastercraft maximum mechanics tools are in light of what you pay

Yeah, it really is good stuff and it's dirt cheap. I could care less where it's made, they have some high quality products that are very inexpensive. I was using those wrenches as an example, but lots of their stuff is really nice. Here are some pictures for those of you who havn't seen their stuff:

eschoendorff · Nov 30, 2006

Dayum... some of that imported stuff doesn't look half bad there. Those screwdrivers look down right comfortable, and those pliers bear a striking resemblance to the Channellock Code Blue series....

l_bilyk · Nov 30, 2006

OctaneMotorsports said:
Yeah, it really is good stuff and it's dirt cheap.

I dont like their pliers or their screwdrivers. Don't like the handles on the screwdrivers. Pliers aren't as strong.

I DO like their sockets, wrenches, gearwrenches, levels and combination squares (both Empire, but like 1/3 of the price), utility knives, hand saws, drywall saw, etc.

They just came out with a router that might be worth buying if it goes on sale... the lithium ion drills dont looks too bad either

l_bilyk · Nov 30, 2006

eschoendorff said:
Dayum... some of that imported stuff doesn't look half bad there. Those screwdrivers look down right comfortable, and those pliers bear a striking resemblance to the Channellock Code Blue series....

Don't quote me on this, but I don't think those screwdrivers are imported... they make navy blue handle sets that i KNOW are made in canada... i think these are as well

l_bilyk · Nov 30, 2006

They were selling these, badged mastercraft maximum for under $20 for the 48"

I bought 2 because home depot wants about $80 for the same level

Bolt11 · Dec 1, 2006

Does anyone know what the equivilant to Mastercraft is in the United States? Are they available? I used to live in Canada, and most of their tools aren't bad at all for the money, just wondering where I can get similar quality tools here.

OctaneMotorsports · Dec 1, 2006

Bolt11 said:
Does anyone know what the equivilant to Mastercraft is in the United States? Are they available? I used to live in Canada, and most of their tools aren't bad at all for the money, just wondering where I can get similar quality tools here.

Don't quote me on this, but I would say the closest thing is the Craftsman Professional stuff, although that probably costs a lot more.

My toolbox and the tools inside it are 75% Mastercraft Maximum.

pirate · Dec 1, 2006

I want to buy a torque wrench for some general duty. Mostly lug nuts but occasional engine work. Ive been looking at the 1/2" drive 25-250 ft/lb Craftsman but found that Harbor Freight has a S-K 1/2 " (46691-1VGA) on sale for $79.99. Is this the same "Made in America" S-K company or some China based company using a S-K similar name, logo, etc. Is 1/2" drive overkill or would 3/8" drive 5-75 ft/lb torque wrench work as well?

eschoendorff · Dec 1, 2006

pirate said:
I want to buy a torque wrench for some general duty. Mostly lug nuts but occasional engine work. Ive been looking at the 1/2" drive 25-250 ft/lb Craftsman but found that Harbor Freight has a S-K 1/2 " (46691-1VGA) on sale for $79.99. Is this the same "Made in America" S-K company or some China based company using a S-K similar name, logo, etc. Is 1/2" drive overkill or would 3/8" drive 5-75 ft/lb torque wrench work as well?

Should be the American-made SK. Not everything that HF is Chinese in origin. There are actually some great USA-made values at HF (Goodyear hose, for example). The thing when shopping at HF is, you have to pay attention to what you are buying.

That being said, I believe that the SK and teh Craftsman use basically the same guts. I have three Cman clicker TQ wrenches and they serve me very well. Of course, I treat them like they're made of glass....

chevy302dz · Dec 1, 2006

Bolt11 said:
Does anyone know what the equivilant to Mastercraft is in the United States? Are they available? I used to live in Canada, and most of their tools aren't bad at all for the money, just wondering where I can get similar quality tools here.

The MasterCraft stuff compares to the Stanley stuff at WalMart, this is because it is made by Stanley, much like Home Depot's Husky line.

D-Cal · Dec 1, 2006

I work on my cars in my own shop constantly. All the tools I have are cheap mostly Canadian Tire type. For the most part, it hasn't made any difference and everything gets the job done.

OctaneMotorsports · Dec 1, 2006

There is a difference. They have Mastercraft and Mastercraft Maximum. The Mastercraft stuff isn't as nice as the Mastercraft Maximum.

chevy302dz · Dec 1, 2006

The Maximum line (the one in the pics in this thread) are the ones that compare to the Stanley and Stanley Pro series.

kartracer55 · Dec 1, 2006

Pirate, Same SK. You can probably get it cheaper from thetoolwarehouse.net. Order something else small and youll get free shipping.

Get the 1/2 drive for lugs. The 75 ft/lb 3/8 isnt large enough for most lugs; usually your looking at the 90-110 ft/lb range for them. With that said, many shops dont torque lugs unless you specifically request it. As long as your carefull and pay attention to the gun, you wont have a problem. So you might be better off with a 3/8 torque wrench for other general repair.

Jim

wantedabiggergarage · Dec 2, 2006

pirate said:
I want to buy a torque wrench for some general duty. Mostly lug nuts but occasional engine work. Ive been looking at the 1/2" drive 25-250 ft/lb Craftsman but found that Harbor Freight has a S-K 1/2 " (46691-1VGA) on sale for $79.99. Is this the same "Made in America" S-K company or some China based company using a S-K similar name, logo, etc.

Putting on asbestos suit.
Even the R.O.C. stuff is ok for some things. I needed to grind down a socket for one specialty thing, so I bought some HF impacts. I ground it down, and since I was a little worried (they are chrome vanadium, not chrome molybendum), I wrapped it in electrical tape (in case it came apart). It's been fine (used if a few more times as a regular impact).
SK WAS connected with Facom, but bought themselves back out, when Stanley toolworks purchased Facom (purchase finished in January 06, I belive). Wonder how long till I see something marked Facom, ROC.

Canadian Charlie · Dec 3, 2006

another great make in tools are Gray (Canada) I have a set of SAE wrenches and alot of thier sockets. Not as expensive as the big 3 but worth thier money in gold

OctaneMotorsports · Dec 3, 2006

Canadian Charlie said:
another great make in tools are Gray (Canada) I have a set of SAE wrenches and alot of thier sockets. Not as expensive as the big 3 but worth thier money in gold

I have this Gray 10mm wrench that I accidentally acquired at work. It's all mis-shaped, but looks brand new :wtf:

EdNJ · Dec 3, 2006

pirate said:
I want to buy a torque wrench for some general duty. Mostly lug nuts but occasional engine work. Ive been looking at the 1/2" drive 25-250 ft/lb Craftsman but found that Harbor Freight has a S-K 1/2 " (46691-1VGA) on sale for $79.99. Is this the same "Made in America" S-K company or some China based company using a S-K similar name, logo, etc. Is 1/2" drive overkill or would 3/8" drive 5-75 ft/lb torque wrench work as well?

You'll want a 1/2" drive for engine work,some fasteners require more torque than 75 ft/lbs.

Charles (in GA) · Dec 3, 2006

kartracer55 said:
Some are actually rebadged IR tools. All the chrome air tools that actually say snap on are made by them, but all of thier red "comfort" handled die grinders and such are manufactured by suiox. All snap on products are made by either snap on or one of the companies they own. So Id bet that CDI, being owned by snap on, is making thier torque wrenches.

Snap On also owns Souix...........

CDI made Snap On torque wrenches for years, they like them so much that they bought the company. (sounds kinda like Victor Kiam and the Remington razor)

Charles

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