Looking for Suggestions for Light Weight Ceiling

Bomer · May 26, 2010

Thanks to everyone for creating such a great wealth of information by participating in this forum. I have lurked endlessly to make most of my decisions on my in-progress garage redo. I am waffling on one decision however.....

I was initially going to have a plywood ceiling in this garage but we noticed that the trusses are already flexing about an inch across the span of the garage (25') and we are leery of adding additional weight to the trusses. This is a 1940 build garage and the trusses are "build on the site" type. We have thought about a beam to support the trusses but don't want to cut down on ceiling height since the ceiling is only 10.5 feet and want to keep as much clearance as possible for the lift. (New insulated garage doors are on order with the middle one raising up to ceiling height). We just sprayed closed-cell foam in the ceiling yesterday (of course it rained on all the **** in the driveway) and now I'm wondering if there is still a good light-weight ceiling solution. I can live with the foam look (no ceiling) but am wondering about other ceiling ideas.

What do you all think?

OccupantRJ · May 26, 2010

Why not jack up the trusses and add W bracing to stiffen and help support them? Any triangulation bracing should be an improvement.

jdub63 · May 26, 2010

Just install a dropped acoustical tile ceiling. It's fairly light and can also support drop in lighting fixtures. IMHO, makes the shop look cleaner too.

dipper · May 26, 2010

x2, that's what i did in my garage.

jdub63 said:
Just install a dropped acoustical tile ceiling. It's fairly light and can also support drop in lighting fixtures. IMHO, makes the shop look cleaner too.

Bomer · May 26, 2010

dipper said:
x2, that's what i did in my garage.

Dipper....your ceiling looks great. I like the big panels.

Are you happy with the lighting? Would you do anything different?

Mike 47 · May 26, 2010

Use steel panels like you'd see on a pole barn. Link for an example: http://www.midwestmanufacturing.com...tLine.do?groupId=7&productTypeId=45&lineId=24

I looked at acoustical tile, but the prices were outrageous. Maybe there's an affordable source for the stuff that I don't know about.

PCO6 · May 26, 2010

I used aluminum residential soffit panels. They are 10' long by 16" wide and were very easy for one person (me) to install.

shopnut · May 26, 2010

An alternative to the aluminum soffit is vinyl soffit. You can get what they call T-4 (Triple 4") Solid in 12" wide by 12 foot long sections. The "Solid" means it's not vented so it has a smooth surface and a very "clean" look once installed. It is easy to install, even without a helper. My entire shop from 10' and up will be covered with it soon. See the link in my signature for more pictures.

For your application, it appears the the rafter spacing is too far apart to install it directly without some sagging, so I would suggest wood strips be attached perpendicular to your rafters and then the vinyl would be attached running parallel to the rafters. This might also allow you to shim any unevenness you may have up there on that old ceiling, if you care about that.

Mattlt · May 26, 2010

shopnut said:
An alternative to the aluminum soffit is vinyl soffit. You can get what they call T-4 (Triple 4") Solid in 12" wide by 12 foot long sections. The "Solid" means it's not vented so it has a smooth surface and a very "clean" look once installed. It is easy to install, even without a helper. My entire shop from 10' and up will be covered with it soon. See the link in my signature for more pictures.

How are the acoustics with the vinyl material? I know noise is a big drawback with sheet steel; they make an acoustical steel material with small holes in it to deaden the sound. So, this got me thinking, what about the vented soffit material? I wonder how that would work?

XSive · May 26, 2010

Mike 47 said:
Use steel panels like you'd see on a pole barn. Link for an example: http://www.midwestmanufacturing.com...tLine.do?groupId=7&productTypeId=45&lineId=24

I looked at acoustical tile, but the prices were outrageous. Maybe there's an affordable source for the stuff that I don't know about.

I used the Dura-panel (same idea as this stuff) in my garage this fall and I love it. Bright, easy to work with and reasonably priced. Bought it at Menards.

Bomer · May 26, 2010

shopnut said:
An alternative to the aluminum soffit is vinyl soffit. You can get what they call T-4 (Triple 4") Solid in 12" wide by 12 foot long sections. The "Solid" means it's not vented so it has a smooth surface and a very "clean" look once installed. It is easy to install, even without a helper. My entire shop from 10' and up will be covered with it soon. See the link in my signature for more pictures.

For your application, it appears the the rafter spacing is too far apart to install it directly without some sagging, so I would suggest wood strips be attached perpendicular to your rafters and then the vinyl would be attached running parallel to the rafters. This might also allow you to shim any unevenness you may have up there on that old ceiling, if you care about that.

This looks really interesting. Where did you get the product?

shopnut · May 26, 2010

Bomer said:
This looks really interesting. Where did you get the product?

Most came from Lowe's but I bought some from H-D when they were having a sale. It's a Georgia-Pacific brand product. You will find it near the other vinyl siding material.

Bomer · May 26, 2010

It looks like the aluminum is similar in price to the vinyl based on a quick check of online prices. I wonder if the aluminum would be more resistent to sagging over the long term?

Does anyone have a rough estimate of the cost of a traditional suspended ceiling like dippers?

shopnut · May 26, 2010

Mattlt said:
How are the acoustics with the vinyl material? I know noise is a big drawback with sheet steel; they make an acoustical steel material with small holes in it to deaden the sound. So, this got me thinking, what about the vented soffit material? I wonder how that would work?

I insulated before installing this stuff and acoustics seems fine to me. I would have to say the walls absorb noise in the room. Also, I just built a duct for my exhaust fan out of it and it quieted that thing down tremendously.

The vented style might work even better.

One other comment - the spiders seem to avoid the vinyl for some reason. They love the wood rafters that I have exposed in some spots yet, however.

Gary S · May 27, 2010

I used 1" foil faced foam board. The foil is a wonderful reflective surface for both heat and light, and the extra R6 I got from it is nice too.
You can use thinner foam board if you have enough supports, and you can go thicker if you want more rigidity.

Zeke · May 27, 2010

I think I'd paint the trusses white and enjoy.

BillGalbraith · May 28, 2010

I love a couple of the the ideas presented here. I have a 700 sf garage with a vaulted ceiling, so I'm guessing about 750-800 sf. Estimate of $800 for drywall, installation, and taping is what I use as a baseline, so if I can find something less than $1/sf, that's a good idea, especially if I can install it myself.

I was at HD today, and wandered around looking at various options. The cheapest was 1/8" white hardboard, 4x8 sheets for $10, or about $250 for my ceiling. It looks like the vinyl siding idea is going to be about $1/sf, and I think it looks better than the drywall.

The cheapest thing that I could think of was the left-over Stego vapor barrier, at about $0.10/sf, but it's an algae green, and I don't think I could stand it in my garage. Just an idea for someone, though.

rsanter · May 28, 2010

galv, sheetmetal roofing

they also have a 1/8 thick plywood available

bob

rikmeister · May 28, 2010

the aluminum retains it colour longer than the vinyl does that is the main advantage or aluminum or vinyl.

BillGalbraith · May 28, 2010

shopnut said:
An alternative to the aluminum soffit is vinyl soffit. You can get what they call T-4 (Triple 4") Solid in 12" wide by 12 foot long sections.

I looked at this stuff briefly at HD today. It looks like it has special sides, one for against the house, the other for under the facial. Did you have to cut these off, or was the product that you used actually a vinyl siding, which is designed to overlap?

Dan in Pasadena · May 28, 2010

Ok, I've got to ask: How are those soffit panels attached to the (what looks like) 1x's? Do you have a close up of the attachment method?

little d · May 29, 2010

dan and bill, the sofit materal goes on just like the siding, overlaping. insted of running long ways with the house, ya cut it to fit between the house and facia, in j chanels. for a ceiling, you would put it on just like siding, crossing your ceiling joists. remember, its plastic, vinal, it expands, shrinks, dont nail it up tight.

they make a trailer house skirting also, ya might wanna look at.

PCO6 · May 29, 2010

little d said:
dan and bill, the sofit materal goes on just like the siding, overlaping. insted of running long ways with the house, ya cut it to fit between the house and facia, in j chanels. for a ceiling, you would put it on just like siding, crossing your ceiling joists. remember, its plastic, vinal, it expands, shrinks, dont nail it up tight.
they make a trailer house skirting also, ya might wanna look at.

That's one of the reasons why I chose aluminum soffit - no shrinking or streching. I was concerned that aluminum might be a little louder than vinyl (grinding metal, etc.) but the acoustics have been good.

BillGalbraith · May 29, 2010

PCO6 said:
That's one of the reasons why I chose aluminum soffit - no shrinking or streching. I was concerned that aluminum might be a little louder than vinyl (grinding metal, etc.) but the acoustics have been good.

Any issues with installing it? I would expect that I would get some bends and kinks in it installing it, and anything that hit the aluminum will leave a dent.

regguy1 · May 29, 2010

jdub63 said:
Just install a dropped acoustical tile ceiling. It's fairly light and can also support drop in lighting fixtures. IMHO, makes the shop look cleaner too.

You can also put insulation batts directly on top of the panels.

BillGalbraith · May 29, 2010

regguy1 said:
You can also put insulation batts directly on top of the panels.

Hmmm, one could do the same with the soffit. I'm thinking all about this these days, and the faced insulation is more expensive than the unfaced, but who says that I could put up a few pieces of the soffit, then slide the unfaced insulation down in there. I can't find prices online, but I think the unfaced insulation was cheaper. The top pieces of insulation might have to be faced, unless I can juggle putting that up in there while I'll holding the soffit as well.

little d · May 29, 2010

pco6, alum will expand also, its all in how its installed!

PCO6 · May 30, 2010

BillGalbraith said:
Any issues with installing it? I would expect that I would get some bends and kinks in it installing it, and anything that hit the aluminum will leave a dent.

No, it was actually very easy for one person to do. Once the insulation and strapping was in place it went up very fast. Each panel locks into the previously installed one, like tongue & groove. They are rigid and it was easy to push them in even though they are about 10' long. I will always have to be careful not to hit the ceiling but I don't expect that dents will be a problem.

Attached are some photos that show how I joined the ends. My garage is 20’ x 20’ x 10’. The ceiling joists are far from level and this method allowed me to even things out quite well. I screwed the aluminum panels to the strapping with white #6 x 3/8” screws – no drilling required – just pierced the aluminum by pushing the screws through using a screw driver. I cut the 10’ aluminum panels down to about 9’ and installed them perpendicularly to the front and back walls toward the centre of the garage. That left a “gap” in the centre. I then installed a 2’ plywood “utility corridor” from one side of the garage to the other (see photos). The corridor covered the rough cut ends of the aluminum panels. The other & real purpose of the plywood panel was to mount my electrical and air lines. They run from one side of the garage to the other. I installed retractable reels so I could drop lines down from the ceiling on each side of the garage. The attached photos don’t show the final results but I think you can get the idea.

It all works great and the lighting is incredible. I hung six 4’ T8 fluorescents from the ceiling and others over my work benches. The aluminum really reflects the light. I used “daylight” T8 bulbs and it really is like daylight in the garage.

PCO6 · May 30, 2010

little d said:
pco6, alum will expand also, its all in how its installed!

I agree. It will likely expand / contract outside in direct sunlight but I'm not too worried about it inside. It's been up for about year and a half. I only heat the garage when I need to and it's gone through a temperature range of about 0F to 95F. I pulled a few screws to see if any of the panels had shifted and there didn't seem to be any problems.

little d · May 30, 2010

^+1, ya did a damn good job installing it.

ckucia · May 30, 2010

Soffit material is a great idea!

I was just at HD looking at soffit material (for our soffit). Never occured to me to use it for a ceiling.

PCO6 · May 30, 2010

little d said:
^+1, ya did a damn good job installing it.

Thanks. I only wish I could have cleared the garage out when I did it. The worst part was moving things around on the floor and climbing up and down my ladder a lot more than I should have had to.

PCO6 · May 30, 2010

ckucia said:
Soffit material is a great idea!

I was just at HD looking at soffit material (for our soffit). Never occured to me to use it for a ceiling.

The next time you're at a gas bar, take a look up at the under side of the canopy over the pumps. It's very similar to that look. The same materials are used on the inside walls of some car washes. I wouldn't use it on garage walls though because it would dent if you bumped anything into it. I guess drive through car washes are safe ... provided you stay in your car (lol).

BillGalbraith · May 31, 2010

PCO6 said:
I used aluminum residential soffit panels. They are 10' long by 16" wide and were very easy for one person (me) to install.

PCO6, I see that you used unfaced insulation, and a clean plastic to hold it in place. Was that a better way to do it over using faced insulation? Is it important to control that vapor?

Also, I see that you used firring strips, running perpendicular to your trusses. Is there any reason that is required, or did you do it just for aestetics? It looks like you are 24 inches on center with those.

Thanks.

PCO6 · May 31, 2010

BillGalbraith said:
PCO6, I see that you used unfaced insulation, and a clean plastic to hold it in place. Was that a better way to do it over using faced insulation? Is it important to control that vapor?

Also, I see that you used firring strips, running perpendicular to your trusses. Is there any reason that is required, or did you do it just for aestetics? It looks like you are 24 inches on center with those.

Thanks.

Bill - I might have used the type of faced insulation that you staple to studs or joists but they weren't available at our local Home Depot or Lowe's. I used 6" R-20 insulation batts. It definitely would have been easier to install faced insulation because the attic floor was already in place and I worked from the underside.

There's a lot of debate about whether vapour barriers are necessary in garages or even houses for that matter. There is no habitable room above my garage so that was not an issue. I believe they should be and I went with 6mm poly. It's important to have the garage attic well ventilated and I think I am OK with that.

I probably could have screwed the aluminum panels to the joists in the opposite direction but I wanted the panels to go from front to back in the garage so I could install the plywood "service corridor" (air & electrics) from side to side. I'm not sure if it helps but the strapping also allows for a 3/4" air gap between the panels and the vapour barrier. And you are right - the strapping is 24" OC.

thdewey · Jun 1, 2010

PC06
How far apart is the strapping? I need to put up this material in my carport and perhaps inside the garage if like it.

Tom

PCO6 · Jun 1, 2010

thdewey said:
PC06
How far apart is the strapping? I need to put up this material in my carport and perhaps inside the garage if like it.

Tom

Tom;

The strapping is 24" on centre. I started at 16" OC then realized the panels were rigid enough that 24" would be fine.

Stew

6th Gear · Jun 1, 2010

PC06 - Wish I had read your idea a couple months ago...
I just used the exterior 29 ga sheet metal for my ceiling. Looks similar to yours but it was 20' long and a lot heavier and probably a lot more expensive.

ended up needing a drywall lift - made the job much easier!

nolatoolguy · Jun 1, 2010

What about just corigated roofing panels, lightwait and reasonably priced. Just use some self tapping screws and put them stright into the beams.

bobbyd · Jun 2, 2010

I used the corrugated tin, mainly because it had the look I was after and is lightweight. Ran into a bunch of old lay-in light fixtures that I chain hung and painted black and used flex conduit to connect them. Sorry, don't have a picture of it completed.

Looking for Suggestions for Light Weight Ceiling

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