Parts washers - solvent v. water v. bio

Graymills - Craig · Jun 16, 2010

(Full disclosure, we make parts washers)

I was wondering if I can get feedback on the various solutions available. Have any of you switched from solvent to a water-based or bioremediation cleaner? If so, what has your experience been. If not, what are your concerns/issues?

Thanks!

Craig Shields
President
Graymills Corporation
http://www.facebook.com/graymillscorp

wbrian63 · Jun 16, 2010

I tried a water-based cleaner purchased in a 5gal bucket from Northern Tools. The "Monster" brand. Supposed to be "great" for cleaning most items. Concentrated to make up to 25gal. My washer is a 40-gallon capacity.

Result - completely unsatisfied. Oily or greasy parts came out oily and greasy. Only solution was to use another cleaner like Simple Green or 409 to get the residue off.

Switched to a solvent-based cleaner from Safety-Kleen and never looked back.

Disadvantages - the solvent based cleaner is hard on the skin. Got a hole in one of my cleaning gloves and didn't notice it (it was hot and I was sweatty). Result was a substantial rash on the back of my hand and up onto my forearm that took about 5 days to heal with proper medical attention. Now I use nitrile gloves inside the bigger washing gloves.

I've not evaluated any bio-based cleaners.

Just my 2 cents.

dmeadow · Jun 16, 2010

I put Simple Green in a small parts washer on the suggestion of some website somewhere. It was a disaster.

It didn't work all that well and it corroded the hell out of the parts washer. I had to throw it out.

Now I use odorless mineral spirits.

Graymills - Craig · Jun 16, 2010

Interesting feedback. Thanks!

mikeyr · Jun 16, 2010

Since I am in the market for a new parts washer and looking at all the variations right now, I can put in my 2cents.

My current parts washer I purchased back in the early 80s, had Safety-Kleen in it and thought it worked great. Because of cost, I went to mineral spirits when that went bad, I thought it worked about the same but really damaged my skin, that was the days before you wore gloves. A few years ago I tried Simple Green since it was highly recommended, that was a waste of time compared to Safety-Kleen which I went back to. Being in Calif. I can't get Safety-Kleen anymore without a EPA registration so I have been talking with people a lot for the last 6 months about variations.

I am told the Aqueous washers with heated tanks work really well but I have not tried one yet although I am thinking of getting one. I have talked to a friend about ultra-sonic cleaners, those are pricey but if they work as well as I am told and save me time its ok.

As I get older my concerns have changed from when I was younger, I now look for safety such as flash point (a big plus for water based) and also health safety, I did not care much in my younger days about health safety. But my primary concern is how well it cleans, I don't want to spend hours in front of the washer doing something that gasoline could do in half the time (bad example, but you get the idea). A few years ago I was told that solvent cleaners would soon be illegal in my county, that never came to pass but its also a concern that whatever I get I can use forever. My parts cleaner can get heavy used Fri-Sat-Sun and sit unused the 4 days I am at work, but on weekends its pretty common for friends to show up and work on their old British cars.

I have not heard much about bioremediation and not looked into that one yet as a possible choice so can't comment.

bluesman2a · Jun 16, 2010

The subject of parts washer solvents comes up fairly regularly around here. If you search, I'm sure you will find lots of threads.

Generally it comes down to 3 points:
1) effectiveness
2) price
3) availability

Most here like myself can't justify the cost of high-end solvents. For what I do, mineral spirits/stoddard solvent is cheap(er), easily available, and it works.

I haven't found anything (yet) that works as well, for a price I am willing to pay, at a local supplier that I don't have to pay hazmat shipping on. Typically I fill my washer with 5-7 gallons of solvent and buy 10 gallons worth to keep some extra on hand.

For comparison sake, the last time I filled my parts washer, it was $70 worth of solvent (10 gallons) from Tractor Supply company.

Aberdale · Jun 16, 2010

It may not be PC, but I've found it's hard to beat the low cost, effectiveness, and availability of white kerosene. There's a slight odor, but nothing I can"t live with

Charles (in GA) · Jun 16, 2010

I think the biggest issue with water based cleaners is that, generally they need to be heated. This MIGHT be ok for a full time shop, but for the average joe in his home shop, it means extra electricity to keep it heated, or a long wait to heat it to use it.

Personally I like solvent based cleaners.

Charles

Charles (in GA) · Jun 16, 2010

bluesman2a said:
For comparison sake, the last time I filled my parts washer, it was $70 worth of solvent (10 gallons) from Tractor Supply company.

I spent slightly over $50 a five gallon can, bought six, used four, have held two in reserve.

Charles

barney rubble · Jun 16, 2010

Aberdale said:
It may not be PC, but I've found it's hard to beat the low cost, effectiveness, and availability of white kerosene. There's a slight odor, but nothing I can"t live with

Same thing I use but I add a additive that Radiator Specalities/Solder Seal makes.

BillK · Jun 16, 2010

Craig,

We use both at my shop. A heated aquious sink type and a solvent based sink type. They each have thier plusses and minuses.

The water based one is not really worth much on nasty dirty parts, but works great for soaking many engine parts such as rocker arms etc. You also absolutley have to rinse the parts in hot water afterwards or you get a nasty residue. I really cant see an aquious parts washer in a home shop though. The energy to keep the solution to temp and the evaporation rate would make it impractical for the casual user in my opinion.

The solvent based one cleans nasty grimy parts better but the newer low VOC solvents seem to never dry

scooterseats · Jun 16, 2010

I have always used Kerosene for my parts washer. I have used all of the other branded solvents at many different locations that I have worked in and nothing comes as close to being easy on the skin, and cleans as good as plain old Kerosene. As stated above, Safety Kleen will cause a skin rash to develop and it is nearly impossible to use gloves and keep it completely away from skin.
If you are old enough to remember, our forefathers used Kerosene as a medicinal component to many home remedies that I am sure would not be approved in today's world but they lived through it with no apparent damages.
I do know, with new Kerosene it will dry sufficiently to paint over after cleaning.
For me it will always be Kerosene.

tcianci · Jun 16, 2010

I have a brand new parts washer, don't remember how many gallon but it's a small floor model. Does anyone have any problem with the solvents (either water based or solvent based) wrecking the paint in the washer? Since use will be infrequent, should I drain it into 5 gallon buckets after use or will it stay just fine in the tank with the lid closed?

bgott · Jun 16, 2010

You want to dump a quart of transmission fluid into a parts washer that has a fresh fill of Safety Kleen. I learned this trick years ago, I haven't had a rash since I started using ATF. I always used Dextron.

Art From De Leon · Jun 16, 2010

I bought 20 gallons of the aqueous parts washer fluid from Northern. Absolutely worthless! I bought a heater and all that did was make the **** evaporate faster. I replaced it with naptha and never looked back.

A complete waste of money.

mikeyr · Jun 17, 2010

Ok, I guess I will stay away from the water based ones then.

My current washer is getting very low on Safety-Kleen and besides its dirty, I have to get some new solvent for it and I can't get Safety-Kleen anymore (S. Calif. requires EPA forms, hard to comply for a homeowner), so I was looking at the original posters website and notice Super Agitene, anyone ever use it ? does it work ? If not, mineral spirits or Kerosene, what is preferred ?

I will be buying a new parts washer within the next few days, my old one is leaking yet again, I can't get a filter for it anymore and have to mickey mouse something to work on it and the pump sounds like it needs replacing yet again. Its ok I have only had it 30 or so years.

stltikn · Jun 17, 2010

We use a product called oil eater. We use it undiluted and not heated. We are planning to add a heater this year. It has been very effective, but you must rinse well in very hot water afterwards. The parts washer is an early
'90's model from Chemsearch. We tried Safety Kleen and kerosene, but this stuff is more effective and you avoid all the other issues. It does leave a white residue when dried on the basin of the washer.

Falcon67 · Jun 17, 2010

I use mineral spirits and a quart of ATF in my 20 gallon. Works, cheap.

38Chevy454 · Jun 17, 2010

Mineral spirits here. Cheap, effective and not too hard on the skin.

I do try manual cleaning most of what I can prior to parts washer though.

Charles (in GA) · Jun 17, 2010

mikeyr said:
I was looking at the original posters website and notice Super Agitene, anyone ever use it ? does it work ? If not, mineral spirits or Kerosene, what is preferred ?

I'm sure Craig will chime in the next time he checks onto the board (certainly nothing wrong with a manufacturer or vendor stimulating some good old discussion) but I have used Super 141 Agitene for about three years now. Graymills makes several different solvents and also water based cleaners also. The Super 141 has Lanolin in it, easier on the hands, but will still dry your skin out if you are in it alot. If you plan on painting parts after cleaning them, you will need to give them a quick soap and water rinse to get the lanolin off, otherwise it doesn't hurt a thing. The 141 stands for 141 degrees F flash point, which is the lower limit of certain types of cleaning solvents allowed by OSHA? or EPA? (don't recall which) unless you are using special equipment and following special safety procedures.

I've got good use from my parts cleaner, but in the interest of keeping the solvent clean as long as practical I take time to pre-clean parts, blowing grease out of bearings first, scraping or brushing parts to remove the heavy buildup or crud, then I use the parts cleaner to remove the grease and oil residues and difficult stuff that requires soaking.

Charles

bluesman2a · Jun 18, 2010

Falcon67 said:
I use mineral spirits and a quart of ATF in my 20 gallon. Works, cheap.

I've seen this several times... What does the ATF do in this setup? Is it more effective than just plain Mineral Spirits?

38Chevy454 · Jun 18, 2010

bluesman2a said:
I've seen this several times... What does the ATF do in this setup? Is it more effective than just plain Mineral Spirits?

The ATF is to make it better on your skin. So the mineral spirits don't dry out your oils in your skin so much.

I personally do not put ATF in mine, but I use it infrequently.

scooby074 · Jun 18, 2010

my only experience with a aquious/bio washer was at a previous employer. I think it was a Walter...

IT SUCKED. Wouldnt clean. Very slow. Millwrights hated it.

Wasnt there more than 2 weeks before the old solvent one was back.

Hard to go wrong with solvent. Everyplace i worked (minus that short trial), and my own shop at home runs solvent.

Usually i just run Varisol (mineral spirits) in mine. Employers usually use safety clean, mostly for the no fuss factor.

Graymills - Craig · Jun 18, 2010

mikeyr said:
Since I am in the market for a new parts washer and looking at all the variations right now, I can put in my 2cents.

My current parts washer I purchased back in the early 80s, had Safety-Kleen in it and thought it worked great. Because of cost, I went to mineral spirits when that went bad, I thought it worked about the same but really damaged my skin, that was the days before you wore gloves. A few years ago I tried Simple Green since it was highly recommended, that was a waste of time compared to Safety-Kleen which I went back to. Being in Calif. I can't get Safety-Kleen anymore without a EPA registration so I have been talking with people a lot for the last 6 months about variations.

I am told the Aqueous washers with heated tanks work really well but I have not tried one yet although I am thinking of getting one. I have talked to a friend about ultra-sonic cleaners, those are pricey but if they work as well as I am told and save me time its ok.

As I get older my concerns have changed from when I was younger, I now look for safety such as flash point (a big plus for water based) and also health safety, I did not care much in my younger days about health safety. But my primary concern is how well it cleans, I don't want to spend hours in front of the washer doing something that gasoline could do in half the time (bad example, but you get the idea). A few years ago I was told that solvent cleaners would soon be illegal in my county, that never came to pass but its also a concern that whatever I get I can use forever. My parts cleaner can get heavy used Fri-Sat-Sun and sit unused the 4 days I am at work, but on weekends its pretty common for friends to show up and work on their old British cars.

I have not heard much about bioremediation and not looked into that one yet as a possible choice so can't comment.

Mike;

If you're curious, feel free to send me sample parts. I can clean then with various methods and let you see for yourself.

Graymills - Craig · Jun 18, 2010

BillK said:
Craig,

We use both at my shop. A heated aquious sink type and a solvent based sink type. They each have thier plusses and minuses.

The water based one is not really worth much on nasty dirty parts, but works great for soaking many engine parts such as rocker arms etc. You also absolutley have to rinse the parts in hot water afterwards or you get a nasty residue. I really cant see an aquious parts washer in a home shop though. The energy to keep the solution to temp and the evaporation rate would make it impractical for the casual user in my opinion.

The solvent based one cleans nasty grimy parts better but the newer low VOC solvents seem to never dry

Thanks, Bill;

I agree about the home shop. My garage has a solvent unit because of the warmup issues, though I usually do the big work at the factory and do 100% water/ultrasonic there. If you ever want a sample of some newer-generation aqueous solutions, let me know. I'd be happy to ship you some free to see if they work better for the nasty parts.

Craig

Graymills - Craig · Jun 18, 2010

tcianci said:
I have a brand new parts washer, don't remember how many gallon but it's a small floor model. Does anyone have any problem with the solvents (either water based or solvent based) wrecking the paint in the washer? Since use will be infrequent, should I drain it into 5 gallon buckets after use or will it stay just fine in the tank with the lid closed?

Any cleaning solution is designed to remove surface contaminants. Painted washers will typically get stripped rather quickly. Powder units should hold up much better.

Craig

Falcon67 · Jun 18, 2010

That's it. And ATF is a pretty decent cleaner its self. I use it for final cleaning of bores and deck surfaces. Seems to leave a bit on the parts so they don't rust real fast. And gentle on your hands - you're soaking in it!

Graymills - Craig · Jun 18, 2010

Charles (in GA) said:
I'm sure Craig will chime in the next time he checks onto the board (certainly nothing wrong with a manufacturer or vendor stimulating some good old discussion) but I have used Super 141 Agitene for about three years now. Graymills makes several different solvents and also water based cleaners also. The Super 141 has Lanolin in it, easier on the hands, but will still dry your skin out if you are in it alot. If you plan on painting parts after cleaning them, you will need to give them a quick soap and water rinse to get the lanolin off, otherwise it doesn't hurt a thing. The 141 stands for 141 degrees F flash point, which is the lower limit of certain types of cleaning solvents allowed by OSHA? or EPA? (don't recall which) unless you are using special equipment and following special safety procedures.

I've got good use from my parts cleaner, but in the interest of keeping the solvent clean as long as practical I take time to pre-clean parts, blowing grease out of bearings first, scraping or brushing parts to remove the heavy buildup or crud, then I use the parts cleaner to remove the grease and oil residues and difficult stuff that requires soaking.

Charles

Thanks, Charles. My usual feeling is that I'll answer technical questions, but I get uncomfortable actively selling in forums like this.

Anyhow, you did a better job than I could do with the question. FWIW, we're bringing out a 141 version of our regular Agitene, without the lanolin.

ckal704 · Jun 18, 2010

25 year high school shop teacher here. Used agitene w/lanolin (or similar depending on bid at the time) for years. Switched to Renegade hot water soap solution about 4 years ago. I teach 2 sections annually of a small engine class in which each student rebuilds a single cylinder lawnmower (or such) engine.
Renegade system works very well.
Drawbacks:
*Evaporation of water from heated tank. This year I put the tank on a heavy duty timer so it comes on about 1 hour before classes need it and shuts off immediately after second class. Greatly reduced evaporation over leaving it on 24/7
*Cost of filters/changing filters. To be honest, I don't remember what the filters cost. I think I budget $250 annually for filters and detergent. I change filters bi-weekly and the detergent midway through the school year.
Advantages: it works very nearly as well as Agitene did. Variable output pressure and a variety of hoses/scrubbers already attached to the unit.
It is safer and less likely to stain clothing-both concerns for me as I have high school students here. And, probably safer for me as I use it regularly as well.
As the fluid level drops due to evaporation and normal dissipation (drippage onto floor, etc) I just add more water. It still seems to clean effectively with a somewhat diluted detergent charge.
An advantage the solvent cleaner has is that a stream of solvent will get into nooks/crannies and clean without brushing. With Renegade, much will rinse off, but it takes some swiping with a brush of some sort to get fully clean. Final advantage of Renegade is that the only way to remove abrasive grit from the cylinder deglazing or valve lapping process is to wash in hot, soapy water. Solvent cleaners will not lift abrasive grit off cylinder surfaces like soapy water will.

Just my opinion based on my experience.

hydramatic · Jun 18, 2010

mineral spirits and solvent gloves.. 40 yrs..no problem

W-Cummins · Jun 20, 2010

I like Charles, have a large Graymills solvent part washer and use the super Agitene 141 in it. The suff is $$$ but cleans well ( about $87 for 5 gal ) and the tank takes at least 20 gal to run it. The main complaint I have about it is that it evaporates away, I have the machine closed 99% of the time and I have lost over 5 gallons in about a year. I need to add some weather stripping to the top to make a better seal with the lid ( BTW it should come that way

I also have 2 aqueous cleaners ( both Snap-On/Dee Blast brand) I have to say I really like them. I think that they clean better than the solvent for lots of stuff. As for the cost of heating the solution, it takes about 1hr to get the tank warm and I know I will NEVER burn the cost of the 5 gal of solvent I lost, in electric cost. As for evaporation of the aqueous solution I just add more water as the detergent doesn't evaporate....

William....

Tman · Jun 20, 2010

We have a heated cleaner with the "green" parts wash. I think we prob waste more electricy running the thing than the damage done by using REAL solvent! In short, it *****.

Fedwrench · Jun 20, 2010

It's hard to beat the Safety Klean type solvent and parts washer. The system takes a lot of abuse and keeps on ticking.
I also have a BioCircle cleaner at work. We bought it because we're moving towards the green light and the MSDS triangle is all zeros. On the plus side the Biocircle stuff is warm, does a reasonably good job of cleaning, and the solution won't kill you. The downside is that even though the cleaner is in an air conditioned shop, the cleaning solution evaporates too quick for my liking. The cleaner is 7-8 months old and I've had to add 10 gallons of solution to it to maintain the level at the prefered mark. With the old safety clean set up, we swapped out the drum of solvent annually. I'm considering refilling the safety clean unit just to prolong the life of the biocircle unit. We also have a small cuda. I may just run parts though the cuda first and do final cleaning with the Biocircle unit. If I had to rank the cleaners in effectiveness, ot would be cuda, safety klean, biocircle. :beer:

jabberwoki · Jun 20, 2010

Has anybody tried castrol super clean (the purple stuff) in a parts washer?

Graymills - Craig · Jun 21, 2010

W-Cummins said:
I like Charles, have a large Graymills solvent part washer and use the super Agitene 141 in it. The suff is $$$ but cleans well ( about $87 for 5 gal ) and the tank takes at least 20 gal to run it. The main complaint I have about it is that it evaporates away, I have the machine closed 99% of the time and I have lost over 5 gallons in about a year. I need to add some weather stripping to the top to make a better seal with the lid ( BTW it should come that way

I also have 2 aqueous cleaners ( both Snap-On/Dee Blast brand) I have to say I really like them. I think that they clean better than the solvent for lots of stuff. As for the cost of heating the solution, it takes about 1hr to get the tank warm and I know I will NEVER burn the cost of the 5 gal of solvent I lost, in electric cost. As for evaporation of the aqueous solution I just add more water as the detergent doesn't evaporate....

William....

Thanks, William. I've forwarded your comment to our product manager regarding weather stripping.

Glad to hear the aqueous is working for you. Honestly, I see that as the wave of the future, between environmental regs, oil prices, and better aqueous chemistry.

Vinko · Jun 22, 2010

Graymills - Craig said:
Honestly, I see that as the wave of the future, between environmental regs, oil prices, and better aqueous chemistry.

@ ckal704, Fedwrench, W-Cummins: thanks for the the info on the water-based cleaners. I may have no recourse except to switch. Which is a pity, because after restoring my parts cleaner, putting all new piping, filter, hogshair mat down, I was just getting the thing working the way I wanted it.

jabberwoki said:
Has anybody tried castrol super clean (the purple stuff) in a parts washer?

I've used that and Zep purple from HD in a dip tank for a lot of 50 year old car parts never apparently cleaned. Did the job. Still needed scrubbing. I'm sure that was to be expected. This was about 10 years ago and was all I had at the time. Worse on the hands then the solvent I use. THough I should probably wear gloves for both.

DCarr · Jun 22, 2010

I have a Gray Mills Soal type Hot Tank and used:

Citrus Soak for Hot Tank Cleaners (50 Lb. Pail) - CH30814
50 Lb. Pail of Citrus Soak for use with Hot Tank Cleaners. For all metals, 140 degree F. temperature range, mix 2-10 oz. per gallon of water.Designed to clean aluminum and ferrous metal parts. Blend of natural solvents and detergents. Performs heavy duty cleaning without using hazardous and caustic alkali cleaners. Removes oil, grease, most paints, and light carbon deposits. Mix concentration depending upon degree of soiled parts. Slight citrus odor. Use [[pH Neutralizer]

roduct=CH30011] as ... $107.00 "

In it .. the stuff breaks down thick grease, grime real well .. only problem is that it doesnt release from the part, you can wipe it off with a finger like icing off a cake. Or just squirt it with a water hose and it is clean down to metal.

Doesnt touch rust at all though. I will be changing chemicals in the bear future to something from Zep I think.

wineslob · Jun 22, 2010

We use a D-Limonine based solvent. Been working great for 15 years.

Charles (in GA) · Jun 22, 2010

wineslob said:
We use a D-Limonine based solvent. Been working great for 15 years.

At work we use D-Limonine for several heavy cleaning tasks, such as cleaning the landing gears of airliners.

Charles

Bios · Mar 23, 2015

We used a product called "Oil-off". It cuts through heavy oil and grease as well as any of the solvents we are all familiar with like naptha and kerosene, but it is both bio based and nonflammable. My guys like it a lot. We have only used it in one of our parts washers s far, but probably switching our others as they need changing. Hope it helps.
We found it at http://www.i-SOLV.com
Nick

Parts washers - solvent v. water v. bio

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