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1/2 drive dual 80 problems

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dieseltech

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I bought myself one of these nice new fine toothed 1/2 flex head ratchets and have had nothing but problems with it. had it for 6 months and I am on my 3rd rebuild , broke it again yesterday.The screws always came loose so I used red locktite on them and it helped a bit but it seems any small amount of sand gets inside and the teeth are almost instantly stipped . BTW I work on heavy equiptment in the feild so I am dealing with more dirt or sand than most anyway does anyone else have these issue and or a fix
thanks in advance
 
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bmxr4life87

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are they not sealed head? i know the new matco ratchets are sealed so if you dont find a solution you may look into getting a dual 88 from matco
 
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Fedwrench

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I have a couple of S80 series ratchets and have always felt that the Dual 80 design is in its best form in the 1/2 drive platform. I've had zero problems with them. I wouldn't think dirt would affect its operation as it's a sealed head.:headscrat
I've had problems with 1/4 drive T72 series but, the S80s are great. What does your dealer say?
 
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Fedwrench

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bmxr4life87 said:
are they not sealed head? i know the new matco ratchets are sealed so if you dont find a solution you may look into getting a dual 88 from matco
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I think the definations of a sealed head get interpreted differently between manufacturers. Danaher uses a couple of o rings, a thin cover plate and a snap ring. Which works ok most of the time. Whereas, Snap on uses a couple of o rings, a thicker cover plate and two screws to retain the cover plate.
 
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Hiball

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Ive read numerous posts concerning the Plate screws working loose on the Dual 80's, Ive never had a issue but its obvious your not the first one to raise concern.

Fedwrench said:
I think the definations of a sealed head get interpreted differently between manufacturers. Danaher uses a couple of o rings, a thin cover plate and a snap ring. Which works ok most of the time. Whereas, Snap on uses a couple of o rings, a thicker cover plate and two screws to retain the cover plate.
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Regardless of the fastening system used both the Matco and Dual 80 series ratchets are sealed, I actually prefer the Snap ring system opposed to the screw type. It is of course personal opinion but as long as the sealing plate has a good fit either type will be effective in keeping foreign particles out.
 
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wreckercologist

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I had trouble with a 3/8" dual 80. The screws bottomed out before securing the plate, allowing it to move around. A 3mm tap cleaned up the ratchet body, and a little work on the screws to shorten them and no problems since.

Raise hell with Snap-on. A $160.00 ratchet shouldn't need rework to function properly or three repair kits in six months.
 
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caper

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I have a half inch version that I know is going to be a problem.The screws have worked loose a few times and it doesn't feel or sound right anymore.Especially if your ratcheting and you don't support the weight of the ratchet.If you have the ratchet horizontal and let the drive gear "****" a little bit it makes nasty noises and doesn't catch the next tooth properly.I would say it has something to do with the teeth being so fine that they won't mesh properly if slightly out of alignment.Time will tell.
 
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mrholeshot

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For use in the dirt I'd think I'd use a ratchet with less teeth (and bigger teeth) if you can deal with the extra swing of the ratchet. fine dirt and sand will find it's way into a ratchet
 
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Teken

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caper said:
I have a half inch version that I know is going to be a problem.The screws have worked loose a few times and it doesn't feel or sound right anymore.Especially if your ratcheting and you don't support the weight of the ratchet.If you have the ratchet horizontal and let the drive gear "****" a little bit it makes nasty noises and doesn't catch the next tooth properly.I would say it has something to do with the teeth being so fine that they won't mesh properly if slightly out of alignment.Time will tell.
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Personally, I don't believe the route that any of these manufactures are following with regard to more and more tooth count is going to be a long term performer.

As Caper stated, as the teeth get finer and finer you will see more problems with teeth stripping out.

The only way I see it working long term is if they make the teeth deeper, or the whole head wider to allow thicker teeth in the head.

Or a new pawl design that engages more teeth in a 360' pattern, which would allow more torque being applied over a greater area which would negate the fine tooth count as being the weak link.

My view is that once you pass the 72 tooth count long term reliability becomes a issue.

I have noted many of the issues other members have indicated and strictly use the fine tooth ratchets for speed ratcheting and not for breaking loose bolts in the initial removal process.

But, hey that's probably why I haven't experienced the same failure as my colleges have in such a short period of time. :bounce:
 
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Fedwrench

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Hiball said:
Regardless of the fastening system used both the Matco and Dual 80 series ratchets are sealed, I actually prefer the Snap ring system opposed to the screw type. It is of course personal opinion but as long as the sealing plate has a good fit either type will be effective in keeping foreign particles out.
Click to expand...

The problem I've experienced with the Danaher made Matco, Gearwrench, or Armstrong 60 tooth model ratchet with the snap ring is that if you have like a 22mm or larger socket attached to the ratchet, and said ratchet and socket combination happen to fall off of a lift arm from chest level or higher, and strike a concrete floor at just the right angle, the snap ring will pop. The socket and maybe drive gear will stay together. Everything else scatters in different directions. If you're lucky, you'll find everything. I am now paranoid about where I lay a ratchet down.:wtf:
 
OP
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dieseltech

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the teeth are just too fine i guess, sure wish i hadent traded my old course toothed ratchet in on it. I have told my snap on dealer if he gets an old one in on trade or repo ect that i would like to trade mine strait accross for it
 
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Fedwrench

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Teken said:
Personally, I don't believe the route that any of these manufactures are following with regard to more and more tooth count is going to be a long term performer.

Or a new pawl design that engages more teeth in a 360' pattern, which would allow more torque being applied over a greater area which would negate the fine tooth count as being the weak link.

My view is that once you pass the 72 tooth count long term reliability becomes a issue.
Click to expand...

I think the way most manufacturer's have ovecome the thin tooth issue is to increase the number of teeth on the pawl against the gear. In the older 30 and 36 tooth models you basically had two teeth meshed with the gear. Now with most 60 and over tooth models the pawl tooth to gear contact patch is approximately 7 teeth depending on manufacturer. I think you can get long term usage from 60 and higher tooth count ratchets. The question is really what do you gain from going to 80 or 88 teeth from 60? I mean 20-28 more teeth on a gear the size of a quarter might give you a degree less of swing.
Although not available in a flexhead model the new Proto 45 tooth ratchets seem to have the most agressive teeth of newer ratchets. I think the root cause of the problem isn't the fine tooth action, it's the twisting and cocking the gear mechanism internally be it from loose cover screws, or having the ratchet at an angle.
 
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caper

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Merkava_4 said:
How is the sand getting into the ratchet? It's supposed to be sealed...
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Sealed is a relative term.Just because it has seals doesn't mean nothing gets in or out.They keep a lot of the crud out but the ratchet isn't designed to be watertight and working in the heavy equipment mobile repair environment your constantly using the ratchet when it's got water,oil and crud on it,hell half the day it might be laying in a mud puddle.It doesn't take long for it to work it's way into the guts.Mobile equipment repair is way harder on tools than working in a shop somewhere.There just isn't really any comparison between a shop and mobile.When I'm 2 miles back in the woods changing an engine in a piece of equipment I don't have any fancy carts to lay my tools on.Hell I used to take my road chest in the skidder trails strapped to the back rack of a atv.
 
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Merkava_4

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caper said:
Sealed is a relative term.Just because it has seals doesn't mean nothing gets in or out.They keep a lot of the crud out but the ratchet isn't designed to be watertight and working in the heavy equipment mobile repair environment your constantly using the ratchet when it's got water,oil and crud on it,hell half the day it might be laying in a mud puddle.It doesn't take long for it to work it's way into the guts.Mobile equipment repair is way harder on tools than working in a shop somewhere.There just isn't really any comparison between a shop and mobile.When I'm 2 miles back in the woods changing an engine in a piece of equipment I don't have any fancy carts to lay my tools on.Hell I used to take my road chest in the skidder trails strapped to the back rack of a atv.
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I suppose a 30 tooth ratchet is the cure then. I'm surprised though, I thought the 80 would be unpenetrateable. :dunno:
 
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woody 73

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I would have thought that the red thread lock material would have done it's job and that would have been the end of the story; if that is not keeping the screws in place,contact your dealer and ask for other options.
 
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Merkava_4

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Yeah the screws come from the factory with thread lock on them already; so I don't know why they'd be backing out. :dunno:
 
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mrshaun

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I will send all of this information up to the ratchet guys and see what they say. I have had two do that and the guys used them on tanks with cheater pipes attached to them.
all of the older screws were longer so that may explain the screws coming loose so easy.
thanks for the info guys
 
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Merkava_4

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mrshaun said:
I will send all of this information up to the ratchet guys and see what they say.
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When you say you'll forward this information to the ratchet guys, will they be reading my posts too? If so, I'll be a little alarmed by that because I'm kinda shy. :eek:
 
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Griff93

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I have had a bunch of problem with my dual 80 3/8 drive long flex. It just won't grab at first when you go to pull on it. I about ended up in floor over it the other day. I've had 3 kits put in the first one as it would slip a lot. Then my dealer swapped me one. Now this one has problems catching. I've tried using grease, I've tried them with only a drop of oil on the teeth. I've tried leaving them alone. It doesn't seem to matter. I've had that ratchet built three time as well. I had it mess up again on me last week. I'm very disappointed in it. It's to the point that I went out and bought an armstrong so I can have a reliable ratchet at work. Needless to say I will not be buying another Dual 80.
 
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Hiball

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arkangel06 said:
Wright makes a real nice american made open head ratchet that would be prefect for you!
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Good Idea, IF those Open Geared Ratchets are good enough for our troops in the Desert they would surely work for the OP. Not to mention they are blessed with being made by a company that is Proud to be 100% Made here in the states, No questions asked, No globalization BS.
 
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Elroy

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wreckercologist said:
I had trouble with a 3/8" dual 80. The screws bottomed out before securing the plate, allowing it to move around. A 3mm tap cleaned up the ratchet body, and a little work on the screws to shorten them and no problems since.
Click to expand...

This sounds like the root cause of your problem.
 
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Rnz520

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I think the Cornwell coarse tooth will work better in your situation, I am partial towards them because of their toughness compared to said dual 80s ( my 3/8ths has been rebuild twice and its not a long handle, but I also work on trucks and equipment and it sees a lot of dirt and elements). I bought a long handle (24 inch) MAC flexhead, big mistake, the package said Made in Taiwan and while the ratchet action was not bad the head was floppy, hated the grip and it also broke once. The only upside to it was the 10 to 19mm MAC USA sockets that came free with it.
I just traded it for a Dual 80 24 inch locking flex head, questioning my decision now, it was on sale but the Matco 24 inch LFH is a proven ratchet in my shop, almost everyone has one.
 
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