I'm done with #2 Phillips drivers.

Bolster · Jul 14, 2010

I hate all of my #2 Phillips drivers. I own Felo, Snap-on, Williams, Wiha, and Cman, and hate them all. With just a little use, the tips get mushy and the bits don't bite, prone to cam-out.

So I'm going in a different direction now. I'm buying hardened 1/4 hex bit P#2s and using them in a PB Swiss 186 driver. I love this driver, and I love being able to pop in fresh, hard bits, and to dispose of them when they start camming. Strong magnet.

The only downside so far is that once in awhile there is that 1/16" clearance issue, due to the "cup" at the end, and then I have to get one of the regular P2s out of the drawer. Otherwise, good riddance to my stable of P#2s!

Also I LOVE the feel of this in my hand. None of that pansy-assed ergo stuff that gets in the way, or feels like a lump in your hand. No soft cushiony inserts that get dirty. Only thing I'd change is I'd put a bolster near the handle so's you can get a wrench on it.

Heck, I even like the color!

mooman · Jul 14, 2010

Here ! Here! I'm with ya!!

Interex · Jul 14, 2010

I'm a big fan of Vermont American bits. The tips have ribs that seem to bite into the head of the screws. Very tough and don't start rounding after constant use.

impulse922 · Jul 14, 2010

of all the pb swiss grips, you like the one that closely resembles the stinky cmans.. :headscrat

Bolster · Jul 14, 2010

Well, they ALL start rounding with use, but that's the great thing about replaceable bits. It's no longer an issue. I will seek out your Vermont Americans and give them a try. They look nice 'n' aggressive.

Bolster · Jul 14, 2010

impulse922 said:
of all the pb swiss grips, you like the one that closely resembles the stinky cmans..

To me they feel like old-school Plombs & Protos. Which I like.

It's a traditional screwdriver look. So what if Cman copied it too.

All the pro tool s-drivers are tripping over each other, trying to get the meatiest glob of double-chinned gooey plastic that fills your hands. This thing is hard and svelte.

Sort of like mooman's girls.

And interchangeable!

Sort of like Mooman's girls.

lauver · Jul 14, 2010

Bolster said:
I hate all of my #2 Phillips drivers. I own Felo, Snap-on, Williams, and Cman, and hate them all. With just a little use, the tips get mushy and the bits don't bite, prone to cam-out.

So I'm going in a different direction now. I'm buying hardened 1/4 hex bit P#2s and using them in a PB Swiss 186 driver. I love this driver, and I love being able to pop in fresh, hard bits, and to dispose of them when they start camming. Strong magnet.

The only downside so far is that once in awhile there is that 1/16" clearance issue, due to the "cup" at the end, and then I have to get one of the regular P2s out of the drawer. Otherwise, good riddance to my stable of P#2s!

Also I LOVE the feel of this in my hand. None of that pansy-assed ergo stuff that gets in the way, or feels like a lump in your hand. No soft cushiony inserts that get dirty. Only thing I'd change is I'd put a bolster near the handle so's you can get a wrench on it.

Bolster,

I'm inclined to agree with your P#2 solution, but I'm not sure about that PB Swiss driver. There are any number of bit drivers that would do the job as well for half the money. But, let's not get bogged down on bit drivers; I'm more curious what your thoughts are on the best P#2 bits to use. That's the critical question.

Bolster · Jul 14, 2010

lauver said:
I'm inclined to agree with your P#2 solution, but I'm not sure about that PB Swiss driver. There are any number of bit drivers that would do the job as well for half the money. But, let's not get bogged down on bit drivers; I'm more curious what your thoughts are on the best P#2 bits to use. That's the critical question.

Meh, not sure I agree, friend. I despise my Cman bit driver in particular, and many others I've used (and ruined) are either considerably larger in girth around the bit, or have weak magnets and the bits leave the tip, or the opening flares, the bits are held sloppily, and finally splits with use. This one has tooth-jarring snap and tight tolerances. And I'm not expecting any trouble on the flaring/splitting front, given what I know of PB Swiss' steel.

Have you tried the PB Swiss driver? In my book it's worth the extra. That's why I posted. I wanted to share my positive opinion of it.

O RLY · Jul 14, 2010

Hmm what about p#2 impact bits?

Danglerb · Jul 14, 2010

Couple minutes with a triangular file and a #2 can clean up pretty well. I use bits a LOT, but clearance and bit wobble can be a PITA.

I think the trick with a phillips is to stop using it at the first sign of wear, and either file it or replace it. That and don't let it slip, keep pressure on while twisting hard. My bad habit is that I feel that about to slip thing, and don't stop.

I've also go a little bottle of grip goop, some kind of fine grit or something, makes the tip bite into the metal.

Bolster · Jul 14, 2010

O RLY said:
Hmm what about p#2 impact bits?

Now yer talkin.'

lauver · Jul 14, 2010

Danglerb said:
Couple minutes with a triangular file and a #2 can clean up pretty well. I use bits a LOT, but clearance and bit wobble can be a PITA.

I think the trick with a phillips is to stop using it at the first sign of wear, and either file it or replace it. That and don't let it slip, keep pressure on while twisting hard. My bad habit is that I feel that about to slip thing, and don't stop.

I've also go a little bottle of grip goop, some kind of fine grit or something, makes the tip bite into the metal.

Danglerb,

At best, you can file dress a P2 once, then it's scrap metal or time to make a scribe/awl out of the old driver.

I remember reading a shop tip once about using valve grinding compound on screwdriver tips. Probably not too different from your "Grip Goop". I think I'm going to try it if I can find my can of grinding compound.

Merkava_4 · Jul 14, 2010

You're gonna get metal transfer from the screw heads onto the Phillips tips over time. I take and clean my Phillips tips with a Dremel wire cup wheel when they get like that.

MattT · Jul 14, 2010

I gave up on Phillips, and Pozi, screwdrivers for general use damn near 20 years ago. Aside from wear I also find the magnetic bit useful. I've still got regular screwdrivers that only get used when I need the clearance. I use the ACR bits from SO or Mcmaster.

My go to driver handle is a SO hard handle ratcheting.

caper · Jul 14, 2010

I used to love the old Snap on phillips drivers.Many times I've actually snapped the tip right off them because they wouldn't cam out and took such a bite on the screw.The new ones are nowhere near the quality of the old ones.It seems like they are tearing the driver tip apart after a couple uses.

Merkava_4 · Jul 14, 2010

Dremel Wire Wheel (shown below)

Before Cleaning (shown below)

After Cleaning (shown below)

Joe Mamma · Jul 14, 2010

lauver said:
Bolster,

I'm inclined to agree with your P#2 solution, but I'm not sure about that PB Swiss driver. There are any number of bit drivers that would do the job as well for half the money. But, let's not get bogged down on bit drivers; I'm more curious what your thoughts are on the best P#2 bits to use. That's the critical question.

I'm not Bolster, but check out this thread on that subject:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40070&highlight=bits

Joe Mamma

walrus · Jul 14, 2010

caper said:
I used to love the old Snap on phillips drivers.Many times I've actually snapped the tip right off them because they wouldn't cam out and took such a bite on the screw.The new ones are nowhere near the quality of the old ones.It seems like they are tearing the driver tip apart after a couple uses.

+1 on that, Snap on #2 used to rule. I had one for 10, 12 years that would hold a screw like it was brand new, finally broke it and have broken it several times since

wafrederick · Jul 14, 2010

I know a neighbor of mine,Ken that breaks the tips off of #2 phillips screwdrivers.He does this to the good and cheap #2 phillips screwdrivers.Most of the screwdivers bits are made Taiwan and China these days.McFeely's,a big seller of square drive screws called Robertsons screws have a chart showing the cam out on Phillips and Pozidriv screws in their catalog.Chart shows lots of cam out and they did test on them.

mrholeshot · Jul 14, 2010

I dont know if you know but Phillips srcews are designed to cam out. It was designed that way to keep from over torqueing screws during assembley. I wouldnt trade my Snap-On Phillips for any other brand.

Charles (in GA) · Jul 14, 2010

At work all we use are replaceable tips in screwdrivers and also with bit holders in 3/8 impacts for removing hundreds of screws in panels (airliners) and you break them, and expect to occasionally. I also wear them out sometimes. We use Apex brand tips, either the ones like the Vermont tips shown above, with the ACR (anti cam removal) feature, or what I call "sheetrock" tips that are reduced in diameter. One will work better in one type of screw than the other sometimes.

Almost everyone at work uses Snap On ratcheting screwdrivers with a magnetic tip to hold the apex tips in. Sometimes we need to use tri-wing, or hi-torq bits, which we also have available to us.

I keep a pill bottle of the Clover valve lapping compound in my tote tray at work, yes, it works real well for making a tip bite into a screw. I think you can still find it in small tubes in the auto parts places for lapping small engine valves. (you don't need much)

Charles

Bolster · Jul 14, 2010

mrholeshot said:
I dont know if you know but Phillips srcews are designed to cam out. It was designed that way to keep from over torqueing screws during assembley.

Yeah, and that benefit is also a big liability, once you try to back the screw out, or if you have to go in with the driver at a slight angle.

Merkava_4 · Jul 14, 2010

I love the deep slots of Fillister head screws; they allow the Phillips tip to sink way down in; increasing contact.

SMKS · Jul 14, 2010

Bolster said:

Is it just me, or are clear acetate handles the best-looking screwdriver handles of all?

I bought this Pratt-Read just because it had such a nice, clear handle. Less than $1 at a local pawn shop, so it was easy to convince myself I "needed" it.

fordbroncodave · Jul 14, 2010

nothing is better then a snap on #2 screwdriver. nothing..

Bolster · Jul 14, 2010

fordbroncodave said:
nothing is better then a snap on #2 screwdriver. nothing..

Well if you like them so much, let me dig mine out of the trash for ya...

Indy_500 · Jul 14, 2010

I've tried quite a few different screwdrivers. My favorites are my dad's Stanley made in the USA set. Probably somewhere between 15-20 years old. THe tips are strong and i like the handles.

Stephenw · Jul 14, 2010

My Snap-on #2 has ACR teeth cut into the tip.

Vermont American bits are made in China.

I bought some Bosch brand #2 phillips bits about 6 months ago. They were made in the USA, had ACR teeth, and have performed exceptionally well.

Dennis The Menace · Jul 14, 2010

Clean the tips of your screwdriver from time to time. Greatly improves bite.

If you need a super high quality and long lasting bit system, I recommend my favorite set up... http://www.wihatools.com/700seri/700_DuraBit.htm

superautobacs · Jul 15, 2010

Hey Bolster,

Have you tried the PB bits at all? I think they're awesome: has the correct profile/geometry which equates to a tight, slop-free fit on the fastener.

Vinko · Jul 15, 2010

I just bought a bunch of the #2 bits from Apex. About 3 or 4 different models.

I like the #2 S-O driver, but it got mushy after a few years.

I have a Swiss Grip #2 but I haven't put it throught he paces. But apparently, it's higher rated than the DIN specs.

Bolster · Jul 15, 2010

superautobacs said:
Hey Bolster,

Have you tried the PB bits at all? I think they're awesome: has the correct profile/geometry which equates to a tight, slop-free fit on the fastener.

I have not, sir. And it makes sense they would work together well. I have been using DeWalt or Bosch bits to date; no great shakes, just easy to obtain and dispose. But I'll give the PB bits a try sometime.

I think what I really desire in a P2 bit (for hand use) is insane hardness, even more than camout ridges. I recall the Bosch would snap fairly often in my drill driver, so they're probably up there in hardness. I don't know HOW hard but I'd guess that some bits may approach Rc 60 (wild guess)?

Whereas your basic Cman P2 screwdriver seems to be much, much softer than that.

iandh · Jul 15, 2010

I'm done with people being done with stuff. :lol_hitti

(I hate #2 phillips too)

Bolster · Jul 15, 2010

Oh I forgot to add, I have a set of Wiha softgrips too, and they are some of my most disappointing P2 that I own. They seemed to soften & mush out right away, within a couple day's use.

I still use them coz they are my only insulated ones.

iandh: I'm done with people saying they're done with people who... aw hell.

beelsr · Jul 15, 2010

i hate phillips too. it's just that i hate slotted more....

lauver · Jul 15, 2010

Vinko said:
I just bought a bunch of the #2 bits from Apex. About 3 or 4 different models.

I like the #2 S-O driver, but it got mushy after a few years.

I have a Swiss Grip #2 but I haven't put it throught he paces. But apparently, it's higher rated than the DIN specs.

Vinko,

Where do you get your Apex bits? Got an online source?

alex71 · Jul 15, 2010

I have some for sale. see link in my sig.

wantedabiggergarage · Jul 15, 2010

Bolster said:
Well if you like them so much, let me dig mine out of the trash for ya...

Dug it out yet?

fordbroncodave · Jul 15, 2010

wantedabiggergarage said:
Dug it out yet?

they are mine anyways. stop asking :bounce:

joeswamp · Jul 15, 2010

Where is the best place to order Apex bits? A friend gave me some a few years ago and they were fantastic, super hard metal and lasted forever.

I'm done with #2 Phillips drivers.

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