Are these angles tight enough for decent welding?

leftyz · Sep 23, 2010

I am a complete noob, and will be taking these metal pieces ot get them welded. I'm wondering if the gaps are going to be an issue or not.

Should I change anything? It's not going to need to be perfect but I'd like it decent.... Thanks

jabberwoki · Sep 23, 2010

you should do slight bevel on the ends to be perfect

trbomax · Sep 23, 2010

You need to grind a 60 degree bevel about half way thru at each joint. Grind both pieces so that the included angle of the bevel is 120 degrees.

leftyz · Sep 23, 2010

trbomax said:
You need to grind a 60 degree bevel about half way thru at each joint. Grind both pieces so that the included angle of the bevel is 120 degrees.

OK, Thanks for the specifics, I really appreciate it!

koditten · Sep 24, 2010

I have to disagree on this one. No offense intended guys.

If this project is going to be Mig welded, than your joints are just fine. Even a novice welding this project will find these joints easy to weld and fill, resulting with strong joints that will be stronger than the surrounding metal. I do lots and lots of fabricating of this type. The only reason I would waste my time beveling these joints would be if I had to have a perfectly flat area after the welding was done.

Can I ask what this is going to be used for? If this is to be something that will carry a huge amount of weight, I might recant the above statements.

Heavy Metal Doctor · Sep 24, 2010

koditten said:
I have to disagree on this one. No offense intended guys.

If this project is going to be Mig welded, than your joints are just fine. Even a novice welding this project will find these joints easy to weld and fill, resulting with strong joints that will be stronger than the surrounding metal. I do lots and lots of fabricating of this type. The only reason I would waste my time beveling these joints would be if I had to have a perfectly flat area after the welding was done.

Can I ask what this is going to be used for? If this is to be something that will carry a huge amount of weight, I might recant the above statements.

X2 - That steel is thin enough to get a decent weld without beveling. I'm sure in a perfect "text-book welding" case you'd bevel it, but in reality you can burn in a good weld all the way through that material with the mig machine set right.

GeorgiaHybrid · Sep 24, 2010

X3

You can get a prequalified full penetration weld in a **** joint with 1/4" material if the machine is setup correctly. The angles the OP is working with look to be 1/8" and shouldn't be a problem.

Boiler · Sep 24, 2010

Better yet, let the person welding do the prep if needed. Those guys have ground a million bevels...

My guess by looking at this, is that unless it is a diving board mounted at the end, those welds won't every be under much load.

daveroy · Sep 24, 2010

Inquiring minds want to know....

Looks like reinforcement for whatever platform you have it assembled on, but I'm betting that's only half the story!

What is it!

OccupantRJ · Sep 24, 2010

Every construction welder I ever fitted up for said that if he could step across it, he could weld it! :lol_hitti

leftyz · Sep 24, 2010

The flat stock is 3/16 thick, this is a frame for a little radio flyer wagon project, so no, it will not ever be under too much load, I don't think...

I'm going to ask the person doing the welding what they think, I'm sure he will bevel it himself if it's needed.

daveroy · Sep 24, 2010

Radio Flyer!!! I knew that floor an looked familiar! very cool.

zmotorsports · Sep 24, 2010

I agree, that thin of angle those gaps should fill very easily. Depending on what is acceptable for weld bead profile. That is with MIG, TIG they may need to be tightened up a little to get good consistant welds. If you want it ground flat after welded you may wish to throw slight bevel to allow for more weld material to be deposited so after grinding there will still be suffcient weld. If you are going to leave the weld alone no further prep should need to be done.

Getting rid of some of the mill scale from the metal will also help with the penetration and introduce less impurities/porosity into the weld. Mike.

78Bird · Sep 24, 2010

Brace it well when welding, or the joints will torque the angles out of alignment as they cool. Tack the whole thing together before making the final welds is the easiest way.

toxicz28 · Sep 24, 2010

leftyz said:
The flat stock is 3/16 thick, this is a frame for a little radio flyer wagon project, so no, it will not ever be under too much load, I don't think...

I'm going to ask the person doing the welding what they think, I'm sure he will bevel it himself if it's needed.

They build racecar chassis out of .120" wall (.005" thinner than 1/8"). You should be able to tow a boat with the wagon when done.

sberry · Sep 25, 2010

That fit up is nothing to be embarrassed about, very weldable. I like some gap on some types of joints.

scbird94 · Sep 25, 2010

Lookin good man! Cant wait to see the finished project

filtered · Sep 25, 2010

Heck i'm a noob welder and even I could weld those gaps no problem. :thumbup:

Professur · Sep 25, 2010

Now, just to qualify a few statements ... a pro with a big mig, or even a stick will have no trouble welding that up without beveling, and will prefer a looser setup, provided the cuts are even and square, and the gaps similar. For a semi pro or amature with a lower powered machine, you're going to need that beveled, but you're better to leave that choice to him unless you've already discussed it.

rsanter · Sep 25, 2010

for general application that looks fine

bob

Ozwelder · Sep 25, 2010

The angles as shown as just fine for any light structural purpose.

Just ensure that as you tack up that the assembly is not pulled out of alignment by excessive tack size. Tacks the size of a small pea are fine.

Tack up by an opposite diagonal sequence checking parallels and square alignments as you go.

Your tacks need to be placed centrally on the end or edge of the angle sections
Basically on the neutral axis. Looking end on to the angle thickness, tack the middle.

The same diagonal process for your welded beads-weld a short bead and go to the opposite diagonal corner. This way the heat distortion is balanced out by the opposing force on its diagonal.

Have a great weekend mate!

Ozwelder

e-tek · Sep 25, 2010

Am I the only one that wants the areas cleaned up?

iagsxr · Sep 25, 2010

e-tek said:
Am I the only one that wants the areas cleaned up?

For ultimate pretty sure, maybe a little less splatter, beads lay down a little nicer.

For structural, good to go.

trbomax · Sep 25, 2010

I guess I'm still an ammiture then,only been at it for 50 some odd yrs,my impression was that he wanted the textbook right way,so thats what I gave him. You can DO it a lot of different ways. I cant spell though.Actually,I'd probably weld it on both sides and grind it flush if it were mine.

Professur · Sep 25, 2010

There's 'the right way' if you're going to weld it up yourself, and there's 'the right way' to give it to someone else. I know if I'm going to weld up something for someone, I want them to leave certain things alone. No matter how clean it looks, I'm gonna clean it again before I strike an arc. If it needs a bevel, I'm the guy to decide.

Wanna Ride · Sep 25, 2010

You'll be fine with those joints. Ray Charles could even mig those.

sberry · Sep 26, 2010

Blindfolded and overhead.

Wanna Ride · Sep 26, 2010

sberry said:
Blindfolded and overhead.

I don't think Ray needs a blindfold. :lol_hitti

leftyz · Sep 27, 2010

Professur said:
There's 'the right way' if you're going to weld it up yourself, and there's 'the right way' to give it to someone else. I know if I'm going to weld up something for someone, I want them to leave certain things alone. No matter how clean it looks, I'm gonna clean it again before I strike an arc. If it needs a bevel, I'm the guy to decide.

This was the impression I got from him, so I gave him the pieces as they are pictured. He mentioned that he'd bevel them and do the welds, and clean up his welds with a grinder afterward.

I told him that it doesn't need to be a masterpiece, but the guy doing the welding is my father in law, and this wagon is for his first grandson, so I have a feeling he will try to do the best he can. I'll post up the results after I get it back!

bdkruger1 · Sep 27, 2010

For what it is, you are good to go. Why? Because I said so. LOL

leftyz · Oct 18, 2010

Well I got it back last night, no pics yet but it looks really good, however... There is one small issue.

The 2 small triangle pieces near the top of this mockup are basically tabs for bolts to pass through, and somehow he messed one of them up and moved it about 2 inches to the north. I'm pretty bummed but hopefully he has time to fix it fast, I need to get this thing finished.

Professur · Oct 18, 2010

looks like it's inside the sharpie marks to me.

leftyz · Oct 18, 2010

Professur said:
looks like it's inside the sharpie marks to me.

No, that's the mockup I did before giving it to him, Here I took some "after" pics...

That last pic pretty much explains what I was sayin...

I can tell he put some work into it, so I can't be too bummed

srmofo · Oct 18, 2010

thats easy enough to fix, just cut it off and make a new triangle

leftyz · Oct 19, 2010

yup,

I'm just bummed since I was ready to paint it, but like you said, its easy enough to fix

Are these angles tight enough for decent welding?

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