What's a good heater setup for a 20x20 2-car?

Cobra4B · Oct 17, 2010

Years ago I bought a small heater that I plug the gas tank from my grill into... it takes forever to heat the garage up and barely keeps it above frigid. I'd like a real heater that won't break the bank and works well.

Option 1: Run my home HVAC to the garage.

I've thought about running my house heat into the garage, but the garage doors aren't insulated and don't seal well, there's no insulation above the ceiling over the garage, and I think the exterior walls may be lacking insulation too (I live near the beach). So.... my concern is the potential gas bill. If I do get registers that seal well or caps etc. how long would it take to heat up when I open them?

Option 2: Electric? Don't know anything about this

Option 3: Kero

A buddy's shop had this jet engine looking thing that ran on Kero and owuld heat the place up very quickly, but it was super loud when on (not really a big deal).

Option 4: Other?

Thanks,

Brian

seagravedriver · Oct 17, 2010

You are right, the propane thing was useless in my garage as well. I got a fairly large portable kerosene heater. Here is a link to one that looks like it, but mine is a different brand.http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KKO33A/?tag=atomicindus08-20
It heats may 3 car garage to a point where I have to turn it down or off.

I just had a new heat pump put in, and a new air handler. I converted from electric to gas (propane) back up heat. While doing so, I had the installer put in 2, 4 inch vents into the garage that I can cap and uncap as needed. I have not put it to the test much yet, but I have high hopes. I believe I may have to bump into back up heat to warm it up much. Time will tell.

The kerosene has a bit of a smell, but that heater I linked you to is totally silent.

I am also going to insulate the garage, as the walls are HardiPalnk on the outside, nailed/secured to OSB, then sheetrock. NO insulation. I am going to rent a machine and blow it in soon. I think it will really help.

wouldworker · Oct 18, 2010

I like my Enerco radiant heater. It's available for propane or natural gas. It doesn't require electricity or a vent and is controlled by a thermostat. I have had no condensation problems that some people are concerned about when using gas heaters. It is very efficient--costs very little to operate in my well insulated shop. Google it--inexpensive to buy and operate.

Jack Olsen · Oct 18, 2010

I don't think it makes sense to write off one type of fuel or another based on what you happen to have seen. Look at BTUs.

scottybaccus · Oct 18, 2010

You need to insulate your door.

I insulated mine with foil backed foam from the big box. Then I covered it with melamine to make it pretty. Now I use one infrared head on an LPG bottle and it gets too hot to leave it on. I expect you folks in cooler climates could use a dual head and see good results.

santagary · Oct 18, 2010

I have an ALL Nighter wood stove installed in my insulated 30' x 40' shop in Colorado at 7700'. The airtight feature allows me to bank the fire in the evening and the garage is above 50 degrees in the AM. It's also a quick way to dispose of boxes that UPS delivers. I quickly unpack the tool that I've secretly ordered, hang it up on the pegboard and burn the box. Cardboard makes a great firestarter! If 5/8ths (my better half) asks me about the UPS delivery, I tell her Christmas is coming and that she shouldn't be so nosey! HA!

BPJOOP93 · Oct 18, 2010

Insulate the garage, put a used home furnace in there. works great.

Cobra4B · Oct 18, 2010

I have a natural gas water heater.... would it be possible to tap into that supply and run a natural gas space heater that I'd only turn on when I wanted to do a winter project out there?

I use my garage to work on my racecar so it's mostly brake work and fluid changes etc. However, after the December event at Road Atlanta I plan on taking the roof off to start the cage install.

harryhood · Oct 18, 2010

I used to run this electric heater from northern tool in my 24*20 attached garage.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200316428_200316428

It would heat the place up in the dead of winter to the point where I have to take off my jacket.

For me it was a good solution as I have kids and animals around and didn't want a heat source on the ground.

Cobra4B · Oct 18, 2010

So what's better? What's cheaper to operate? Electric vs. Natural Gas? What about something like this unit mounted above my black toolbox (where that Corvette poster currently is) and tapped into the gas supply for my water heater?
http://www.google.com/products/cata...ater&hl=en&safe=off&cid=8008769283524635752#p

OvVZPVAdJ6dskeU1vomc0fHGnMzN3yWNGOyViSyoyu_ZfW_Q_kYlJ3WPOh8KUyX0b7GydAGX2egNl1vwdllI8T0XXrMT00D8Nv1jwCBOxRqjgginuN3Gr0Wm6SuFkNTRDjdZIpdbX-vlJFPOAZ-Vjm9kkkdh24IMOMZp-84W

oldgoat · Oct 18, 2010

The vent free heaters are OK, but they do give a lot of condensation in a garage. Mine worked pretty good for a couple of years and then last winter it would start shutting off for no good reason. The CO2 detector never came close to alarming and I replaced the thermocouple. I do a some woodworking and maybe it has some sawdust that is affecting it. I would rather have a outside unit then duct it into the garage. The little fan that you can buy with them was a joke on mine so I built a little shelf behind and above it to put a desk fan on and it helped a lot to circulate the air.

harryhood · Oct 18, 2010

I have no idea which option in cheaper. For me electric was a no brainer as our house doesn't have natural gas and I wasn't about to add it for just a space heater.

milner351 · Oct 18, 2010

I would insulate first - spending most of your money on the attic insulation, then on the door, and door seals. If your walls are already finished and uninsulated - I wouldn't bother tearing down the finish work to insulate and re finish. Not worth it for occasional use.

I've used propane, kerosene, natural gas, wood, electric, and waste oil.... they all have advantages and disadvantages.

With your water heater right there in your garage - you already have the natural gas plumbing out there - I'd go that route for simplicity's sake.

Unless you're going to run the heater ALOT - a ventless will not present a condensation issue, they are very handy - put off great silent heat and can be installed very quickly.

rickycobra · Oct 18, 2010

Do you not want to insulate you garage?

bochnak · Oct 18, 2010

FWIW, I bought a 60k kero torpedo heater on ebay for $36. I hate the noise and stink, however it is probably the cheapest way to go.

I now have a vented nat gas hanging unit. It's quiet and hooked up to an endless supply. No need to run out and get kero, etc...

My garage is only 10% insulated.....I know it will happen next year. I only use it for 2-3 hrs per week.

Do what you have to do to get by, however you will not regret buying a good setup.

I wouldn't consider option 1.

Licensed to kill · Oct 18, 2010

Cobra4B said:
I'd like a real heater that won't break the bank and works well.

IMO, the best way to accomplish this (or anything else) without "breaking the bank" is to establish what end result you desire, then look for solutions without consideration of cost. Then, once you've discovered the alternatives to reach your goal, THEN, consider the cost effectiveness of each and choose the one you want. If all of the alternatives are too costly, wait until you can afford the one you want. If price is considered during initial discovery, you'll invariably choose something (based on price) that will not be wholly up to the task and you will either be dissatisfied and 'make due' or eventually go back to the drawing board as it where and pay for the better solution down the road and you will have wasted the cost of the cheap alternative. Not unlike what you appear to be doing now having bought a cheap space heater that isn't up to the task and now shopping for a better (the proper) solution.

seagravedriver · Oct 18, 2010

My father-in-law has an uninsulated pole building as a shop, three bays. He put up OSB, but I am sure he did not insulate it. I stored my Mustang in there for about 4 months one winter and he used on of the propane torpedo heaters. I had surface rust on bare metal, and I though I had lost a head gasket, as there was a definite water oil mix on the dipstick when I checked it before starting the car. I like things you can have done and then do not keep costing you money, such as insulation.

69charged · Oct 18, 2010

i run an electric 5000 Kw heater in my 24x26 garage and keep it at 15 degrees c in the dead of winter which can reach -40c which is -40f . but not the cheap ones you can buy for 70 bucks at the local hardware store. those are not rated for permanent installs.
this is the one i have and i love it along with a ceiling fan to push the heat down

https://www.acklandsgrainger.com/AG...Q3S9qMx19y3JT9P6KYpt!1294582419!1287425461166

clarence

Licensed to kill · Oct 18, 2010

I likely have this figured wrong but a 5kw heater would cost (with electricity at $.07 per kwh) 5X7= 35 cents per hour X 24 + $8.40 per day X 30 + $252.00 per month in the dead of winter if it runs all the time. For comparison, here in northern Alberta, my highest gas bill (in the dead of winter) to date has been about $290 and that's to keep a 40X60 shop at 10*C and heat a 1600 square foot house and a 60 gal hot water tank

Falcon67 · Oct 18, 2010

That's 59F for us yanks. Pretty good for a 5Kw. I use a 5Kw in my 20x24 insulated, works well and can get it up into the 70s with outside in 20s.

Cobra4B · Oct 18, 2010

To those that have asked about insulation... my garage is finished and drywalled, not going to be tearing that up. My attic is very low since my house is a ranch with a hip-style roof... so getting insulation up over the garage would be a bit trickey.

At the end of the day I just want it warm enought to go out and work in relative comfort, but no need to be permanently heated all winter.

Leaning heavily toward the ventless natural gas unit. Would be the easiest to install and tap into my existing water heater line.

ryaninmichigan · Oct 18, 2010

Last I knew running your house HVAC into the garage is a huge no no. It is not safe. I would say ventless or a overhead "hotdog" unit.

Buford T. Justice · Oct 18, 2010

I have something nearly identical to this in my shed and my garage:

It's 5000 watt electric. No odor, no moist heat. Does a great job.

Cobra4B · Oct 18, 2010

^ Does it run on 120? I have 220 in the garage if needed.

harryhood · Oct 18, 2010

Robinhood said:
I have something nearly identical to this in my shed and my garage:

It's 5000 watt electric. No odor, no moist heat. Does a great job.

that looks a lot like mine. that's gotta be 220v

ChargedUp! · Oct 18, 2010

harryhood said:
that looks a lot like mine. that's gotta be 220v

I have that one in my 2 car garage that is 24x26. It is only insulated on the walls that touch the house. The 1st year I had it, I did not put up any type of insulation including the rafters. It would heat to upper 40's when it gets to about 10 below zero here and upper 50's when it's about 15-20 outside.
However, my electric bills were insane because I would run it all the time.

Last year, I put up the silver bubble type insulation on the garage door and rafters to seal it off. I also bought some 3/4" roll of black foam to put all around the garage opening. I also stapled it because I didn't trust the tape on the back to be the only way of holding it up. I could heat to damn near 70 when it was 15-20 out and a tad over 50 when it was below zero.

Also, after doing this, the power bill was lower and I could turn it on about an hour before I wanted to work and it would heat it much, much quicker.

Whatever you go with, insulate where you can. You will be way better off in the long run.

Buford T. Justice · Oct 18, 2010

Cobra4B said:
^ Does it run on 120? I have 220 in the garage if needed.

Yes, mine are both 220. And I forgot to add my garage is 30' x 36' and my shed is 30' x 30'. This heater does fine in each. At first I was considering a 7500 watt in each but the 5k does plenty good. Right now these are on sale I saw at Northern Tool for $229 or something close to that I believe which is a pretty decent price

Cobra4B · Oct 18, 2010

That is a good deal... going back and forth between natural gas and electic. The electric is easy, but the basic natural gas heaters put out 30,000 BTUs. I have an existing vent for my water heater and existing gas lines. I don't intend to leave this on full-time... just to turn on when I'm working out there.

So given the choice gas or electric?

Buford T. Justice · Oct 19, 2010

Cobra4B said:
That is a good deal... going back and forth between natural gas and electic...

...So given the choice gas or electric?

Well, that question as you know will generate different opinions. I went electri and here's why I did:

This year I went all electric in my house (furnace & electric heat pump) therefore giving me the all electric rate (Im with Midamerican Energy) and their all-electric is almost half of that if you run propane or natural gas. And my garage and shed are insulated to the max.Plus, as I said earlier, the electric heat causes no humidity change or odors. some guys are fine with that, Im not so thats why I did it. I have mine on wall thermostats so I leave them set at 45 degrees so when I go in either building I turn it up to 55-60 and it feels great. Plus then with my all electric rate the bills were never horrifying for me.

NUTTSGT · Oct 19, 2010

My suggestion.

Insulate the garage doors with some foil backed insulation. Use the thickest insulation that will fit in the door. make sure the weather stripping is in good shape also.

As much as a PITA it might be, spend a day in the attic laying out rolls of fiberglass batting. While you're at it, you may want to do the rest of your house too. If you buy it by the end of the year, I believe you can take up to a $1500 tax credit. http://insulation.owenscorning.com/homeowners/taxcredit/index.aspx

As much as I hate the stuff, you could drill holes in the wall and blow in cellouse insulation. Using a 1 1/2 - 2" hole saw to drill the holes, you could also use them to patch the holes back up, some joint compound, sanding and a little paint it would be good as new. This may a bit much for most people though.

If you already have a gas line out in the garage, I would install a ventless gas heater. Make sure it doesn't violate local codes and that you have adequate wall space for it.

Cobra4B · Oct 19, 2010

Thanks Eric.... my garage doors are just plain old wood with windows accross and the seals are dry rotted and hard. I'm not doing anything to them just yet because I'm considering runninga new span in the sping and putting in 1 18' door.

It doesn't get crazy cold around here so I think I may just install the ventless gas heater and crank it up when I'm out there, then shut it back off when I'm done.

Not trying to be able to work in shorts and flip flops, just don't want to be freezing.

NUTTSGT · Oct 19, 2010

If you get an 18' door, spend the money for an insulated one. Think about this too, make sure it can withstand high winds, I'm sure you get some when the hurricnes come through the area. Maybe talk to some other locals that have wide garage door, even your insurance agent, inquire about how many garage doors get wind damaged.

BTW, My old doors were wooden too, I screwed some 1/2 foil backed on the inside of the door. The sections with windows, I hung the foil facing out, looked nice and kept prying eyes from seeing in the garage.
from the outside,

Cobra4B · Oct 19, 2010

A few people in my neighborhood have allready done it. I was walking the dog the other day and finally passed one of the guy's houses while he was outside w/ his garage door open. He's got a sweet supercharged Viper, but I've only ever caught a peek of it sitting in there.

I stopped and chatted with him and he said he'd had it done that way for nearly 5 years and did it for the same reasons I want to (so he can pull his car right in the middle of the space). He did mention wind issues when discussing how much he paid for his door. The new beam is cheap.... it's the custom 18.x' door with hardware to withstand a basic hurricane that cost the $$$. I think he said his door was $1800 and the whole project cost $2300ish.

As for "prying eyes".... that doesn't much matter as everyone in the neighborhood knows me as the Corvette guy with the cool garage. Many people have converted their garages into living space and repalced the garge doors with double french doors... and the ones that haven't done that just use them for storage.

venom50svt · Oct 19, 2010

Well I have tried many types of heaters in my 2 car garage. I believe it is like 24x24x9. I bought an electric heater, nope it wasn't powerfull enough to fight the cold, I was wasteing my money. Then I used kerosun heaters, well they are of but the wick tends to not be efficient after a while. I had complaints from the wife about the smell. She is overly sensitive to smells. So I sold some gold stuff and bought a Mr. Heater 48,000btu and coupled it with a 100lbs propane tank. I hung it on the ceiling and vented it out the side of the garage...
In looking back, I should of done this a long time ago.. It is nice to just program the thermostat. I go through a tank and a half per winter, so that is about 90.00 for the winter.. Although I do not run it full time, it is convient and powerfull to keep me toasty in the cold weather. I paid 429.00 and free shipping from Northern tool.
Electric heater---249. use cost absorbed with heat bill
Kerosun heater --129. use cost, gallons of kero
Kerosun heater --129. same as above
Mr. Heater----429. use cost approx 90.00 per year

stevo

Cobra4B · Oct 19, 2010

What size tank do you use with the Mr. Heater setup?

pipsters · Oct 19, 2010

Gas is always going to be the most efficient. Also a benefit for you, is since you won't be in it all the time, gas will quickly heat up a space. Turning it on for a few hours a week, gas is definitely the way to go.

As an example, a small 1500 watt personal space heater running on electricity costs $120/month to run if left on 24/7.

Matt M PA · Oct 19, 2010

My attached garage is about the same size as the OP's.

We put in a Dayton G73 (I think) which is very similar to the ones others has shown pics of. Obviously by the Dayton name, it came from Grainer. Ours runs on 220 and heats that area up fast. I leave it on a very low setting to avoid pipes freezing.

It hangs from the ceiling, so no floor or wall space is lost. It's quiet and does a good job.

brownbagg · Oct 19, 2010

I wish I could find a one piece heat pump like those cheap hotels have.

jvitez · Oct 19, 2010

pipsters said:
Gas is always going to be the most efficient. Also a benefit for you, is since you won't be in it all the time, gas will quickly heat up a space. Turning it on for a few hours a week, gas is definitely the way to go.

As an example, a small 1500 watt personal space heater running on electricity costs $120/month to run if left on 24/7.

Heating cost vary tremendously throughout Canada and the US, so your numbers only work for your particular utility cost. For any meaningful comparison you need to have your actual fuel costs, the percentage efficiency of the heater(s), and heater output. Now you're comparing apples to apples.

Cobra4B · Oct 19, 2010

I think for my limited use and the fact that I allready have an accessible gas line the 30,000 BTU ventless natural gas one from Northern Tool for $130ish is hard to beat. The electric ones are $100 more even on sale. Yes I have to buy the pipe bits to setup the gas supply, but I'd ahve to wire in a new 220 outlet for the electric.

What's a good heater setup for a 20x20 2-car?

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