Question for the PLUMBERS out there - Shop Sink/Washer Install

shopnut · Oct 24, 2010

Question for the PLUMBERS out there - Shop Sink/Washer Installation

I’m going from this:

To this:

At the same time, I’m adding an old clothes washer for the shop to clean rags and such so I intend to use the same supply lines for it.

Plumbing on the backside of the new sink looks like this. There are 1/2” pipe ******* for the faucet inlets, but I need to make an immediate 90 degree turn downward to allow the sink to fit tight against the wall.

I was planning to use standard faucet hoses as shown, but the street elbows I’m using didn’t allow the swivel nut threads to engage very much. The next picture shows how I modified the brass elbow to get some more engagement. I basically just added a chamfer to the ID to give the seal something to seat on. The black iron elbow is just shown as comparison without the mod done.

To tap in for the washer lines, I want to use these simple tees:

And the washer wall box will look like this:

Any problems with my methods so far? Thanks in advance.

ddawg16 · Oct 24, 2010

I like the washer boxes.....really cleans things up.

Looks like you pretty much covered the bases.

Personally, about the only other thing I would suggest is to replace the old shut off valves with a ball valve. That is all I ever use now...I hate those old shut off valves....they take for ever to close....especially when water is flying everywhere.

1320stang · Oct 24, 2010

Is the sink or the washer going in the old location?

If the new washing machine was going next to the other one, I'd think the supply lines could be tapped into as well as the discharge.

If the sink is going in the same location, where will the washer be?

Hos is the in wall plumbing for the existing sink and washing machine plumbed?

shopnut · Oct 25, 2010

ddawg16 said:
I like the washer boxes.....really cleans things up.

Looks like you pretty much covered the bases.

Personally, about the only other thing I would suggest is to replace the old shut off valves with a ball valve. That is all I ever use now...I hate those old shut off valves....they take for ever to close....especially when water is flying everywhere.

Thanks for commenting ddawg16. I agree with the ball valve comment. When looking for plumbing parts, I noticed some of the new valves only require a 90 degree turn on the handle, much like a std ball valve. They look just like std multi-turn sink valves though, like the ones in my picture. Your comment convinced me to swap out my old ones. What's another $12 bucks!

shopnut · Oct 25, 2010

1320stang said:
Is the sink or the washer going in the old location?

If the new washing machine was going next to the other one, I'd think the supply lines could be tapped into as well as the discharge.

If the sink is going in the same location, where will the washer be?

Hos is the in wall plumbing for the existing sink and washing machine plumbed?

Stainless steel sink will replace the white sink in exactly the same location. Supply lines will be directly below it. Existing plumbing for the sink is shown in picture 2. The washing machine has no connections as of yet.

You can see just a hint of the washing machine on the right in the first picture. It will turn 90 degrees from that shown due to interference with the tub lid and the stairs above. I will be using it 3 or 4 times per years so convenience is not a big factor.

I'm not cutting into the wall for the new washer boxes. They will mount externally between the washer and the wall so all plumbing is accessible in the future. I will build some kind of wood frame to hold the white boxes. It will all be hidden by the washer and sink shirting when finished.

The other big challenge will be collecting all 4 drains, working in a P-trap and hooking this all to the wall drain pipe (at the right height, of course). I wanted to use the existing 2" piping on the SS sink, but it seems to be more trouble salvaging it then what its worth. Hopefully the existing 1.5 wall drain pipe is okay for the washer.

Hopefully, that explains thing better.

1320stang · Oct 25, 2010

The 1.5" isn't going to be enough. You could do what my sister does, she has a similar setup in her garage and discharges the washing machine into the sink, then it can drain slowly into the sanitary sewer. Not as clean of an install, but you can hook the discharge over the edge of the sink when in use and move it up to a nail in the wall when not. If your supply lines are 1/2", it might fill slowly, but if you're only using it a few times a year, the increased fill time probably isn't that big of a worry.

However, if you do it like I'm taking about, it looks like you might have PEX on the old shutoff vavles under the sink. You could go to a PEX tee and put the sink on one side and the washing machine on the other side. Then collect all the drain lines of the sinks to the middle and discharge thru the trap. You might even put dirt legs on the sinks with removable caps on the bottoms to catch and big heavy gunk before it goes into your sewer/septic.

shopnut · Oct 25, 2010

Thanks 1320stang.

Good point about the 1.5" drain - I could picture the water overflowing at the wall box if there is a bottle neck downstream somewhere. You got me thinking more about using the sink as a temporary holding tank for the fast-draining wash water. What if I did this:

Do you think the 2" pipe would allow it to flow over to the sink fast enough? Then, if the 1.5" P-trap doesn't drain quick enough, the water should (I'm assuming) back up into the sink basins before backing up all the way to the higher washer wall box. I guess a high flow could still make it back up to the washer box if the sink drains are too restrictive.

I'll have to research those "dirt legs" you mention because I have septic and I don't want too much stuff going in there.

Thanks again for the help.

59 wagon man · Oct 25, 2010

hello new guy here sorry but the site won't let me do an intro yet. found out this place thru the hamb. pretty neat place you guys have here. hope i'm not stepping on anyone's toes. i have been doing plumbing for 30 years and hol;d a fla master plumber's lic.
1- great sink you have there. i can only fit a single comp ss sink only so much water will exit the drain at the bottom of the sink. you can get a flat top strainer which will help it from getting clogged about $10 it has an 1 1/2" outlet
2- you may have a 2" stack in the wall and it maybe pretty simple to change if you open the wall and snap a pic we could probably help you to fix it
3- on the back of the sink it maybe easier to use a 1/2" copper x 1/2" ips elbow. you can solder a piece of flex. copper to the adater after you screw it on the back of the faucet. extend these down below the bottom of the sink and then you can adapt it to the flex supply you have
4-on the valves under the sink i might suggest a dual stop valve 1/2" copper x dual 5/16" comp. imagine a tee that will replace your single handle with 2 angle stops built in. pretty simple and will give yoiu a quick shutoff for the washer about $15 each. then you can use flex tubing up to the laundry box. will take the washer a few extra seconds to fill but it's only a few times a year.
5- either dump the washer into the sink and put a filter (old ***** hose works well) around the end of the hose.or put a filter on the outlet of the machine. a lot of lint and fibers will come from the rags and can plug an old plumbing drain line in no time at all

shopnut · Oct 28, 2010

59 wagon man said:
hello new guy here sorry but the site won't let me do an intro yet. found out this place thru the hamb. pretty neat place you guys have here. hope i'm not stepping on anyone's toes. i have been doing plumbing for 30 years and hol;d a fla master plumber's lic.
1- great sink you have there. i can only fit a single comp ss sink only so much water will exit the drain at the bottom of the sink. you can get a flat top strainer which will help it from getting clogged about $10 it has an 1 1/2" outlet
2- you may have a 2" stack in the wall and it maybe pretty simple to change if you open the wall and snap a pic we could probably help you to fix it
3- on the back of the sink it maybe easier to use a 1/2" copper x 1/2" ips elbow. you can solder a piece of flex. copper to the adater after you screw it on the back of the faucet. extend these down below the bottom of the sink and then you can adapt it to the flex supply you have
4-on the valves under the sink i might suggest a dual stop valve 1/2" copper x dual 5/16" comp. imagine a tee that will replace your single handle with 2 angle stops built in. pretty simple and will give yoiu a quick shutoff for the washer about $15 each. then you can use flex tubing up to the laundry box. will take the washer a few extra seconds to fill but it's only a few times a year.
5- either dump the washer into the sink and put a filter (old ***** hose works well) around the end of the hose.or put a filter on the outlet of the machine. a lot of lint and fibers will come from the rags and can plug an old plumbing drain line in no time at all

Thanks 59wm, with 30 yrs plumbing experience you must have seen it all. Welcome to the forum - you won't find a better bunch of folks.

Just some replies to your comments. Pardon me, but I don't know all the plumbing jargon.

1 - I think the sink already has what you describe (flat strainers) they pop out easy from the top if you pull on them. There are big lever actuated drain stops hanging underneath each compartment with 2"male pipe thread for me to adapt to. This is a very nice setup and I intend to leave them there, so I will have to adapt to it. The drain piping shown will need to be cut off because it hangs too low to fit the P-trap over to the wall. I already bought the new parts and will show a picture of how that will work later.

3 - I could see that being easier to service from below later on.

4 - I looked for the dual stop valve and only found one at Lowes with dual 3/8 outlets. The only problem is, it had a 1/2 npt inlet. I guess I will need a compression fitting adapter to make it connect to pvc stub from the wall.

5 - Didn't think about all the lint - will have to keep that in mind. I will have to check and see if the washer has a built in lint trap - I don't think the newer ones have them anymore.

1320stang · Oct 28, 2010

Sorry to get back to you so late. I'd dump the washer into the sink, it could overcome the drain line in the washer box due to the elbows and constriction of the drains, plus, what if you leave the drains closed without thinking? 59 wagon man is right about the 2" line possibly being in the wall. I work for a engineering firm and although many commercial sinks may have a 1 1/2" drain, usually the vertical in the wall is 2" even if it has a 1 1/4" vent. But this is residential and you NEVER know what you'll get there. If you don't want to cut into the wall, I'd either change out the valves to the dual tap ones he mentions, (I've not seen one with two 3/8", but I haven't seen everything, the ones I see are two 1/4") or do the tee like I mentioned with the two shutoffs and forgo the wall box and just dump the water into one of the sinks. with the center walls being shorter, if one overflows, it'll go to the next sink over. It won't be as pretty as with the wall box, but if the washer takes a dump and you decide toget rid of it, you don't have the wall box staring at you either.

shopnut · Oct 28, 2010

1320stang said:
Sorry to get back to you so late. I'd dump the washer into the sink, it could overcome the drain line in the washer box due to the elbows and constriction of the drains, plus, what if you leave the drains closed without thinking? 59 wagon man is right about the 2" line possibly being in the wall. I work for a engineering firm and although many commercial sinks may have a 1 1/2" drain, usually the vertical in the wall is 2" even if it has a 1 1/4" vent. But this is residential and you NEVER know what you'll get there. If you don't want to cut into the wall, I'd either change out the valves to the dual tap ones he mentions, (I've not seen one with two 3/8", but I haven't seen everything, the ones I see are two 1/4") or do the tee like I mentioned with the two shutoffs and forgo the wall box and just dump the water into one of the sinks. with the center walls being shorter, if one overflows, it'll go to the next sink over. It won't be as pretty as with the wall box, but if the washer takes a dump and you decide toget rid of it, you don't have the wall box staring at you either.

No worries about your timing - if you have read any of my ASYLUM build thread, you would know my projects go somewhat slooooowww due to my limited time.

I think I'm going to return the 3/8 tees shown in the original post and opt for the dual tap valve - much cleaner and I wanted to update the originals to quarter-turn anyway.

I'm still on the fence with the washer drain line. Certainly, dumping into the sink is the safest way to do it and follows the KISS principle, but I still want it to look good and I do tend to be the experimental type. Opening the sink drains is definitely going on the washer operation checklist right after "open water valves", regardless what method is chosen. Thanks.

The really sad thing about the drain line is the main washer/dryer hookups are on the backside of this wall a few studs down. The stairway stringers totally cut off access to them, however, so I'm out of luck tapping into them.

Thanks for all your time. It's been very helpful.

shopnut · Nov 1, 2010

I MAY BE IN LUCK...

As far as the washer drain goes, anyways. I slid a carton of water bottles out of the way and discovered a 2" cleanout plug near the floor. I dug out some old photos during construction to show the in-wall piping as reference.

My thought now is to plumb directly into this threaded port with a riser pipe (external to the wall and including a trap) and discharge the washer into it. I will do it in such a way that I can remove the new plumbing easily if I actually need to use the port for cleanout in the future. The new sink will still drain into the old sink plumbing nearby.

Will this cause any problems?

Thanks in advance.

bgott · Nov 1, 2010

I don't see why you couldn't run a tee there. Point the ell up and stick a clean-out cap on the straight run.

Question for the PLUMBERS out there - Shop Sink/Washer Install

shopnut

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ddawg16

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1320stang

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shopnut

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shopnut

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1320stang

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shopnut

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59 wagon man

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shopnut

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1320stang

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shopnut

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shopnut

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bgott

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