New to the site, and 40' clear spans?

ishiboo · Oct 27, 2010

I found this site by mistake looking at some yellow PE pipe for gas line, and I have to say I couldn't be more excited to have found it

I recently purchased an 8-acre property, and will be moving from my 30x40' shop into a barn on-site. The barn is very structurally sound, but was used for chickens - it's a 40x100' barn with 4 floors!

I can't possibly use 16,000 square feet, even with all the junk I have, so one idea I had was to convert half the barn (40x50) into my new garage by removing all of the floors on that side of the barn. They were added after the fact and are non-structural.

The hayloft, though would be a great mancave, and I was thinking about re-building the fourth floor over the garage, which would give me ONLY 30' ceilings in the garage, and make room for a future 40x100' mancave

Only issue is I would have to clear span the 40x50' area. Any thoughts on the best/most inexpensive way to do this?

Could be quite a cool setup - parking/large work space in the first ground 40x50, another 40x50 connected to that with 9' ceilings for my workshop, and then two more 40x50 floors for storage/workrooms on the way up the steps leading to the mancave...

bazzateer · Oct 27, 2010

I hate you with all that space!

I think you need to post some pics to help with this. That sort of span is going to require some serious timber or even steel I beams.

Did I say I hate you? :thumbup:

Crizzle · Oct 27, 2010

PAToyota · Oct 27, 2010

A standard 16" deep TJI-joist will get you up into spans in the mid-thirty-foot range, so with some engineering you could easily span 40' with one depending on your loads.

m.james · Oct 27, 2010

Crizzle said:

HAHAHAHA Yes Pictures would greater improve this thread. I am jealous that you get to start over new I enjoy the moving of dirt and the pouring of concrete.

jakeb · Oct 27, 2010

wow..... 40 x 100....

I am just thinking of all the junk I could haul home

haugy · Oct 27, 2010

I can't help you. For some reason jealousy doesn't let me help people.

But I'll try. If I'm understanding you right, you want to open up one half, and leave the other somewhat with a 4th floor? And on the open half, how do you span the 40'?
Is that right?

You can get trusses built for a 40' span. That wouldn't be too hard to do, but what is the current building structure? I can't seem to picture what you're describing.

hilld · Oct 27, 2010

Hmm, indoor bowling alley on one floor, shooting gallery on another, so there are 2 floors in use, the rest is for your shop. Problem solved.

ishiboo · Oct 27, 2010

All good info, thanks.

I will take pictures tomorrow, I was out there today but it was rather dark. Interesting being in a 110 year old barn with 50mph winds, but if it hasn't fallen down or even got out of square in the last 110 years, I don't think it will now

It's hard to capture a picture of the space due to the floors, but yes. I plan on taking out the floors on one side making that my workshop. But I'd like to keep the "top floor" continuous.

ket-tek · Oct 27, 2010

ishiboo said:
The barn is very structurally sound, but was used for chickens

The hayloft, though would be a great mancave

That smells like 110yr old chickens?

ishiboo said:
I can't possibly use 16,000 square feet

Hang out on this site for a few more months and you be designing an addition!

ishiboo said:
Only issue is I would have to clear span the 40x50' area. Any thoughts on the best/most inexpensive way to do this?

As mentioned TJI's or Truss Joists could span 40' no problem.

ishiboo · Oct 27, 2010

ket-tek said:
That smells like 110yr old chickens?

Hang out on this site for a few more months and you be designing an addition!

As mentioned TJI's or Truss Joists could span 40' no problem.

Suprisingly, it just smells like old barn... not bad at all. The upper floors were added to the barn at a later date, and while they're still old (not dimensional lumber) you can tell the construction difference. So chickens may have been addition in the last 60 years

TJI's, trust joists and LVL can do the 40' span, but I get the feeling there would be a decent amount of "bounce" to the setup. I'm almost wondering when all is said and done if I would be better off having a steel frame built.

One cool thing is, with most setups, I could remove only the top floor and then use the remaining floors (with appropriate holes cut) to assemble the "new" walls and floor, and then remove the floors inside when things were complete.

Pics coming tomorrow.

PAToyota · Oct 27, 2010

ishiboo said:
TJI's, trust joists and LVL can do the 40' span, but I get the feeling there would be a decent amount of "bounce" to the setup.

Done properly, no bounce.

Justanoldguy · Oct 27, 2010

This is what I would use.

http://www.lbrspec.com/floorTruss.html

Cobra4B · Oct 27, 2010

Subscribed for pics!

mopar4wd · Oct 28, 2010

A friend of mine used to work in a converted chicken barn. Link to the company here
http://www.sixrivermarine.com. You can see the main work shop in a few of the pictures on the site. They actually opened up about 2/3 width full height then left a balcony on one side. They would then extend staging from the balcony right onto the decks of the larger boats they were working on. I went in there a few times and thought it was a pretty cool setup.

ishiboo · Oct 28, 2010

mopar4wd said:
A friend of mine used to work in a converted chicken barn. Link to the company here
http://www.sixrivermarine.com. You can see the main work shop in a few of the pictures on the site. They actually opened up about 2/3 width full height then left a balcony on one side. They would then extend staging from the balcony right onto the decks of the larger boats they were working on. I went in there a few times and thought it was a pretty cool setup.

That's interesting.. but I can see why.

Last year, all winter was spent redoing the interior on my 29'. Prior to putting the boat "away" for the winter, I built a work platform complete with stairs to make access to the boat easier.

Turns out it was absolutely ESSENTIAL. I would never have finished it having to carry cabinets, carpeting, tools and everything else up and down a ladder and making the transition 30 times a day.

Pics coming soon.

ishiboo · Oct 28, 2010

Pics! Do not despair; I am no ignoramus, I realize the scope of this project

The barn is structurally sound; the floor sagging you see is a combination of the fact they were added later, and the fact that the original 1st floor posts rotted and were replaced about 2' away from the ones which rotted - not over a foundation! Those also rotted. All floors need to be leveled.

Overall:

Ground floor:

ishiboo · Oct 28, 2010

Second floor:

Stairs up to 3/4:

Third floor:

ishiboo · Oct 28, 2010

Fourth floor. The side with the open boards is not sided with steel like the other 3 sides. My plan for this would eventually to put some huge windows on this side, with a chimney/gas fireplace in the middle. This floor would be the "man cave" floor. Decent view until its subdivided in 10 years.

The beams at head-level can be moved, they were there to keep the barn from racking, but that was prior to the interior floors being added. So they would be relocated to the "top" for appearance purposes, and new tensioners added right below the floor.

Looking back:

View from the "window wall":

Huge contraption for moving bales, I assume:

ishiboo · Oct 28, 2010

The photos do not really do justice the scale. 2nd and 3rd floor are low ceilings, but they're at least 7-7.5'. Each floor is 40x100, or 4000 square feet

Slightly less for 3/4 as there is a bit of roof pitch, though quite steep.

I'd say the ceiling on 4th is at least 20-25' high in the center.

Farm house from the 2nd-floor drive up:

Justanoldguy · Oct 28, 2010

I'm in love.
That is an awesome looking building with huge potential.
Please, keep us updated on progress.

Holedgr · Oct 28, 2010

MY F%$KING LOT IS 45 X 117'!!! Whatever dude.....have fun with your space issues.... :lol_hitti

danski0224 · Oct 28, 2010

ishiboo said:
Only issue is I would have to clear span the 40x50' area. Any thoughts on the best/most inexpensive way to do this?

Best and cheap, eh?

Hmmmm... 2000 sf

Guess it depends on your desired live and dead loads.

I bet steel trusses with a 4" pan pour will be cheaper than TJI's. Either way. the walls and foundation have to be strong enough to hold it up.

ishiboo · Oct 29, 2010

danski0224 said:
Best and cheap, eh?

Hmmmm... 2000 sf

Guess it depends on your desired live and dead loads.

I bet steel trusses with a 4" pan pour will be cheaper than TJI's. Either way. the walls and foundation have to be strong enough to hold it up.

That's one cool thing about this barn - it's straight as can be. If it's settled over the last 100 years, its done so evenly!

The walls are concrete but I have a feeling it is over the original fieldstone/mortar. Removing 3 floors of wood, I think whatever the replacement is, even if steel, is going to be half the weight. Currently each floor is comprised of a 3"x9" every 16". Not dimensional - a true 3"x9". Plus the lateral joists, columns, etc... and the fact that the floor is inch or inch and a quarter solid hardwood, I have no doubts the new 1-floor replacement will weigh less

Hope it doesn't tip over!

I'll have to look into steel, that was my first idea. Bolted steel would not require the lateral stabilization I may otherwise need.

SPDMETL · Oct 29, 2010

Dammit, you made me forget what I came on here to post ! Envious like everybody else...

twostory · Oct 29, 2010

If the floors are made from old wood, there is a market for the raw material.

People make flooring and other visible structural wood to use in new homes. The old growth wood is valuable, as you can not find any 100yr old trees to cut down anymore.

ishiboo · Oct 29, 2010

twostory said:
If the floors are made from old wood, there is a market for the raw material.

People make flooring and other visible structural wood to use in new homes. The old growth wood is valuable, as you can not find any 100yr old trees to cut down anymore.

I know... It was a foreclosure - its a miracle that they put the steel siding over the barn board rather than removing and selling.

I'll be keeping all the wood with the barn, may seem silly to some but there is no way to replace it once its gone. The beams will be relocated in the mancave for aesthetics, and the rest will be stacked and strapped with some sort of spacer so it stays dry.

RPH · Oct 29, 2010

This project is ideal for the aussie product from lite steel beam. A few years ago I installed the induction welder on the line in Virgina. Never heard of it but was very impressed. Two or three guy's could install the needed beams with out crane. There designed for basement beams, large door headers and can be shipped 40' long. I know they were working on longer lengths but were still setting up the lines. Just check out the web site. Nothing ventured, nothing gained ? No, I don't work for them.
http://www.litesteelbeam.com/

All in all a great place to start and the finished product will be awesome. Got to love the old barns.

PAToyota · Oct 29, 2010

Beautiful space! Lots of potential!

New to the site, and 40' clear spans?

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