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Spline Fasteners

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Stuey

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How often do you guys come across spline fasteners?

I'm seeing so many "universal" tools on the market now, mosted aimed at consumers and weekend warriors, but I can't say I often encounter anything but 6pt hex.

square bolts? 12pt bolts? e-torx, er, "star" as they like to call it? :headscrat
 
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Buckgnarly

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Only E torx I've come across is the flywheel on ford 4.0 SOHC, and I used the e torx socket, not a universal.
One value I see in the universal are using them on stripped or rounded stuff, MIGHT help in that situation.
 
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mrholeshot

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Never on motor vehicles for spline. I build a good many Hi-Po engines so I see a lot of 12 point. I see a good many E torx as well. The only square bolts or nuts I have are on my antique dining room table. Spline wrench multi tools are just another gimmick. In reality they only fit one thing well and thats a spline bolt. Not sure I want to assemble my Helicopter with a Black and Decker handi-wrench
 
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Ign

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I came across the damn "spider drive" on Fastenmaster's damn Head Loks. Pissed me off, I see no need for proprietary drive systems when there are so many already that work well. Then the guy at Pro Build tries to tell me how spider drive is soooo much better than torx. Really? And why do we need something better than torx when we're only sinking into wood?? A web search revealed that #3 phillips fits the spider drive great (and it does).

Rant off. Otherwise there's some torx on Ford trucks, and I've ran into the metric socket head "torx" on Audi CV boots. Had lots of square nuts on a steel building once, was able to find a regular 12pt socket that fit fine. And of course utility covers will often have the 5-sided "hex" to discourage access, generally overcome w channelocks or vise grips

Bottom line 99% of the time you can find a substitute, and when you can't you should have the correct tool anyhow.
 
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Stuey

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Wakefield said:
Does Torx work/grip any better than 6 point hex Allen head socket?
Does someone pay a special royalty fee to make a Torx fastener or driver tool?
Click to expand...
Maybe? I don't use Torx too often, but theoretically I think they're supposed to provide a slightly tighter fit.

Yes, Torx is a registered trademark. That's why you see some cheaper tools offering "star" bits - it means they didn't pay for the rights. I believe I heard that tools and fasteners also have to be certified to Torx standards before they can be advertised as such, but don't hold it against me if I'm wrong.
 
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mrholeshot

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Wakefield said:
Does Torx work/grip any better than 6 point hex Allen head socket?
Does someone pay a special royalty fee to make a Torx fastener or driver tool?
Click to expand...

I think so. I rounded a lot of allen head bolts but broken many Torx head sockets. I've yet to strip a Torx head bolt when using the correct socket. Yes I have missed the right size a few times over the years. Even if you do this the correct size can normally go in behind it and get it out. By far my favorite male sockets.
 
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Ign

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Wakefield said:
Does Torx work/grip any better than 6 point hex Allen head socket?
Does someone pay a special royalty fee to make a Torx fastener or driver tool?
Click to expand...

Definitely and probably. Torx is owned by Accument (sp?) Technologies. Regardless, I don't care. Think about your customers. Should they have to buy yet another tool to use YOUR product, or should you bite the bullet and find some way for them to use it w the myriad of designs already out there.

IMO it's like selling a BrandX truck that can only be filled up at BrandX gas stations or a BrandX oven that only works if you put BrandX cookware in it.
 
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mrholeshot

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fasteners are constantly evolving. If they didn't we would still be using slotted head screws. The more we use power drivers to save time the more evolved the screw must become. If you buy a box of Torx head deck screws it will come with a bit or two inside the box. Torx head is the best thing to happen to deck screws
 
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usdemt

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The other thing that I always notice about these universal tools is that they are typically 3/8- 7/8 or around there. Even on the off chance a hobbyist comes across something they need the spline drive for they are all going to be on the smaller side. I have seen them on starters and such but they are all smaller than 3/8. Has anyone ever seen a 7/8 spline head fastener of any kind?
 
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williaty

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Several things about this thread

1) I work on Subarus. I see 6-point male, 12-point male, hex female (Allen), Torx Plus (IP40) female, and Torx female (friggen T70!). In fact, the SOHC 2.5L has, in just the head, all of those except the T70 female!

2) I actually think spline drive sockets/wrenches can be incredibly useful. I've had a couple of people who have brought their cars to me after rounding over a 6-point male hex fastener with a 12-point female tool. Even when rounded so badly that a 6-point female tool won't grab the fastener, the spline drive will consistently remove the fastener.

3) All spline drives are NOT created equal. The Matco spline drive ratcheting wrenches I have work extremely well. The Craftsman spline drive I tried didn't hold worth a damn. I'm thinking of going to HF to give their spline drive sockets a try tomorrow.
 
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Toolhorder

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williaty said:
3) All spline drives are NOT created equal. The Matco spline drive ratcheting wrenches I have work extremely well. The Craftsman spline drive I tried didn't hold worth a damn. I'm thinking of going to HF to give their spline drive sockets a try tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Really, they're made by the same company.....
 
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williaty

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Toolhorder said:
Really, they're made by the same company.....
Click to expand...

Possibly not made by the same production line then?

From reading this forum, there also seem to have been at least 2 "versions" of the Craftsman spline drive wrenches. The early version was said to have worked pretty well. Then earlier this year there was a big sale/clearance on the original wrenches. After that, a new SKU popped up and the wrenches sold for a different price. That second kind was what I got to try and the reviews since that changeover have been much less favorable.
 
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Toolhorder

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williaty said:
Possibly not made by the same production line then?

From reading this forum, there also seem to have been at least 2 "versions" of the Craftsman spline drive wrenches. The early version was said to have worked pretty well. Then earlier this year there was a big sale/clearance on the original wrenches. After that, a new SKU popped up and the wrenches sold for a different price. That second kind was what I got to try and the reviews since that changeover have been much less favorable.
Click to expand...

Probably the import line of them. I have no opinion on either as I don't dig them at all. I'll use the correct tool for the job. If it's rounded off I'll remove it with a real tool and replace it.
 
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mrshaun

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spline sort of bites the fastener. I carry spline torque adapters up to 15/16 and sockets up to 1 inch in 1inch dr and wrenches from 1/4-1inch. they are very expensive, but when it comes the something that flies around in the air I wouldn't want HF or cheap **** used on the damn thing.
 
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williaty

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MrShaun,
I can't get a Snap-On rep up this way to give me the time of day. What are "Spline torque adapters"?
 
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larry_g

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I spent many years in manufacturing. One of the selling points for us to use Torx heads was that the automated tooling could engage the head a lot easier than the other options avaiable.

lg
no neat sig line
 
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2drx4

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williaty said:
MrShaun,
I can't get a Snap-On rep up this way to give me the time of day. What are "Spline torque adapters"?
Click to expand...

It's a torque adapter, but with a spline drive instead of a regular hex (6-point) or 12-point end in it. My torque adapters are both (yes, I only have two) 12-point, but some of the guys I work with run the spline ones in the spirit of "It might chew the head a little, but it won't slip off" sort of a thing. I'm not sold on that. There is not any spline drive fasteners on any of the helicopters I work on, that I am aware of. If there is, I won't be touching them anyways.

If you're not sure of what a torque adapter is, here is the quickest example I could find on the snappy site.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...group_ID=20296&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

Basically, it allows you to put a torque wrench where you could only get a box end wrench, not a ratchet and socket.
 
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mrshaun

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squash plate on a chinook 3/8 spline. nothing else will remove them but a spline tool.
why use 12 point when you can use spline. maybe on a harley in a tight spot, but with everything else go spline.
Not one complaint about it slipping.
 
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marcusicp

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I have never ran across and spline head bolts but have seen just about every other type. I work for an independent shop and we work on just about every automotive brand so I get to see lots of different fasteners. I don't understand why we need so many different types but I'm sure they all have their merits.

While we are on the subject, does anyone know of good websites to buy spline head bolts?
 
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crewchief888

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on some of our older loaders, we have a double ujoint between the flywheel and pumps. the bolts are 12 pt, 5/16" head,
sometimes a spline wrench is the only way to get them loose.
i've run into some 12pt heads on driveshaft ujoint straps as well, the spline seems to grip a lot better than a 12 pt wrench /socket on rusted and worn heads.


:beer:
 
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marcusicp

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Gmonkee said:
The plastic cover on the timing belt, the valve cover and a few other detail parts, covers on the Brazilian made motors sold in Mexico. I used a 6 point 8mm socket to pull them for years but finally bought a set of E sockets.
Its very possible these motors are not used in US models or are assembled there to aviod import taxes. That would explain a fastener change.
Click to expand...

Are they spline fasteners or external torx fasteners?
 
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jkeyser14

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I have a lot of older metal working machines that use square heads. Universal wrenches work great for them since you can get the box end on.
 
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bmxr4life87

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A lot of the appeal is the bite they offer on partially rounded fastners plus most people I know don't even know what e-torx is let alone have a set of sockets - wrenches to turn em
 
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