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how to finish out a 50A outlet

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v7guy

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I installed two 50A outlets, the area is sheetrocked. after installing the sheetrock I couldn't find a way to finish up the outlets like all the other outlets. the boxes that hold the plugs seem to not allow a cover. is there some cover or trim that is used that I haven't ran across?
 
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Steevo

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I used these as covers for my 240v-50A receptacle locations:
33a760b3-f72f-44d5-b5ba-4f1ddee3ca22_300.jpg

Available here:
http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Then you can use a wall plate like these around the receptacle itself, but it won't cover the box.
http://www.onestopbuy.com/Industrial-One-Gang-Wallplates-36755.asp

If you have a flush cover, you can use a wall plate like these:
http://www.onestopbuy.com/Industrial-Two-Gang-Wallplates-36756.asp
 
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M

mrb

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v7guy said:
I installed two 50A outlets, the area is sheetrocked. after installing the sheetrock I couldn't find a way to finish up the outlets like all the other outlets. the boxes that hold the plugs seem to not allow a cover. is there some cover or trim that is used that I haven't ran across?
Click to expand...


post a picture of what you installed.
 
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Steevo

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If it is this one (from the OP's garage build thread), then the box is set so far back that it will require a mud ring to bring it flush with the face of the sheetrock.
IMG00113.jpg
 
J

JJones

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You'll be able to get a 2-gang wall plate (see pic) for that receptacle that'll screw to the device strap itself, as most plates do. Try an electrical supply, if need be.

You'll have to shim the device out some. 1/4" plastic ice maker tubing works. That box should have been attached proud of the stud by either 3/8" or 1/2", to sit flush with the surface of the sheetrock. A 4" square deep with the appropriate mud ring would have been better.


032664204906lg.jpg
 
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ambenz

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They make a cover like this for that type of plug....

plug%20outlet%20007-400.jpg


...Check with your hardware store and take this picture with you!!!
You may need to change out the 4X4 box with the correct one.
 
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M

mrb

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either bring the box out so the front edge is flush with the finished surface of the drywall, or (and this is better) replace the box with a 4S box and proper mud ring, then use the plate jjones posted.
 
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MrMark

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You need a double gang mud ring for a 4S box.

That box in the picture is called a "handy" box, as I recall. It is the one type of metal box that does not take a mud ring. The devices just mount to it, rather than to the mud ring on the 4S style boxes. It will take the plug but is not the best choice because of lack of room.
 
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Charles (in GA)

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ambenz said:
They make a cover like this for that type of plug....

plug%20outlet%20007-400.jpg


...Check with your hardware store and take this picture with you!!!
You may need to change out the 4X4 box with the correct one.
Click to expand...

That cover won't fit, the OP used a two gang switch box, and it doesn't have lugs in the corner for that "industrial" cover to attach to.

What the OP needs to do is.........

1) remount the box so it "sits proud" or is sticking out past the stud, the thickness of the sheetrock, and then use the cover plate shown by JJones... or

2) remove that box, and install a deep 4" square box (not a switch box like was used) and then install an appropriate mud ring so that the face of the mud ring will be flush with the sheetrock and then use the cover plate shown by JJones..... or

3) remove that box, and install a deep 4" square box, again not a switch box, and set it flush with the sheetrock (ie above the stud either 1/2 or 5/8 depending on the sheetrock you will be using, and then install the "industrial" cover plate (which will really look out of place with the rest of the receptacles on a sheetrock wall.

Charles
 
OP
V

v7guy

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yup, that's the box I used (the pic steevo posted) everything is insulated and sheetrocked and I did staple the wire before I closed things up.
sounds like I really buggered this up. looks like I've got some sheetrock and wiring work to do next week.
thanks to all that took the time to explain what I should have done.
 
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Norcal

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Charles (in GA) said:
That cover won't fit, the OP used a two gang switch box, and it doesn't have lugs in the corner for that "industrial" cover to attach to.

What the OP needs to do is.........

1) remount the box so it "sits proud" or is sticking out past the stud, the thickness of the sheetrock, and then use the cover plate shown by JJones... or

2) remove that box, and install a deep 4" square box (not a switch box like was used) and then install an appropriate mud ring so that the face of the mud ring will be flush with the sheetrock and then use the cover plate shown by JJones..... or
3) remove that box, and install a deep 4" square box, again not a switch box, and set it flush with the sheetrock (ie above the stud either 1/2 or 5/8 depending on the sheetrock you will be using, and then install the "industrial" cover plate (which will really look out of place with the rest of the receptacles on a sheetrock wall.

Charles
Click to expand...

If using a mud ring, if the drywall is 1/2" use a 5/8" raised ring, if 5/8" use a 3/4" ring, in doing it that way the ring is flush w/ the finished surface, not set back 1/8" if using rings the same depth as the drywall.
 
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Charles (in GA)

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JJones said:
You'll have to shim the device out some. 1/4" plastic ice maker tubing works. That box should have been attached proud of the stud by either 3/8" or 1/2", to sit flush with the surface of the sheetrock. A 4" square deep with the appropriate mud ring would have been better.
Click to expand...

While I don't know if there is anything that prevents you from shimming the device out from the box, NEC 314.20 does not allow for the box to be set back into the non-combustible wall material more than 6mm/.250 in. In combustible wall material, the box must be flush to raised above the surface. Gaps around the box cannot exceed 1/8".

Charles
 
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JJones

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Charles (in GA) said:
While I don't know if there is anything that prevents you from shimming the device out from the box, NEC 314.20 does not allow for the box to be set back into the non-combustible wall material more than 6mm/.250 in. In combustible wall material, the box must be flush to raised above the surface. Gaps around the box cannot exceed 1/8".
Click to expand...

You want to go to all the trouble of ripping this out, that's up to you, but as a professional, I wouldn't bother at this point.
 
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V

v7guy

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mrb said:
you can use an arlington box extender to fix this http://www.arlcatalog.com/Miscellaneous/Box Extenders.htm
Click to expand...

I really appreciate that link. I'll contact them monday and see if I can find an appropriate fit. That solution looks ideal.


JJones said:
You want to go to all the trouble of ripping this out, that's up to you, but as a professional, I wouldn't bother at this point.
Click to expand...
this is kind of my hang out for the next 10+ years and right now I'm really in the teething stage and learning a lot of details. I want to do it right even if it's more work. I'm not out anything other than time and materials. I haven't paid anyone to do anything... in cases like this it's obvious. In other cases where things turned out exceptional it's also obvious... but in the good way lol. I'm the owner and have time to fuss over the details. I'm still not sure if it's worth the work but those extenders look great and I don't make/loose money with this work.
Here's pics of my best solution to date and then also the other opening that is bare. I used 5/8 green board everywhere.
PC190414.jpg


PC190418.jpg




Once again, I really appreciate everyone's input
 
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MrMark

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Did you have to drill those holes in the side of that box for the screws?

The arlington box extenders work OK, I did have to use one once to fix a foul up, but if I were in your situation I would fix this right. You want the plug to be solid and "firring it out" with ice maker tube, while doable, will not be very solid. It's also not code.

You MAY be able to fix this with a two gang smart box without wrecking anything in the sheetrock.

Take out the plug and the box. Undo the romex connector and take out the wire. You can then pull that wire through a smart box and install the smart box in the correct position. The smart box installs be driving two captive screws at an approximate 45 degree angle into the stud.

http://www.smartboxinc.com/smartboxes.php

For old work, the smart box is the greatest thing since sliced bread. It allows you to do a remodel box with a very solid connection (installs to a stud). No more plastic ears that don't hold the box secure.
 
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MrMark

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You put that exposed work cover on upside down? That's pretty creative.


edit: In thinking about it though, I don't think the smart box is listed for 10/2 romex, which is what you have, correct? Or do you have 8/2?

I think the box is only designed for 12 and 14 gauge romex.
 
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Keep

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Grogan14 said:
Boy, you're a real "class act", aren't you?
Click to expand...

Why because I pointed out that covering up incorrect shoddy work is not professional? And people wonder why shows like HOH have taken off.

It was pointed out to the OP that this may not meet code. Was suggested on how to fix it. Instead we get a pro coming in saying "I wouldn't bother" Thats the sort of things that really pisses off homeowners.
 
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Grogan14

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Keep said:
Why because I pointed out that covering up incorrect shoddy work is not professional?
Click to expand...

No, you were just being rude to the guy.


Keep said:
And people wonder why shows like HOH have taken off.
Click to expand...

Study after study show that most diy home renovation projects actually reduce the value of the home, and in the case of larger projects, often significantly. Need you ask why?
 
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mrb

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i dont get why you guys are jumping all over Keep. The other guy said he wouldnt fix it 'as a professional', and keep simply voiced his opinion that not going back and fixing the error was unprofessional which i strongly agree with. There was no personal attack or use of inappropriate language.
 
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csp

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If the two exposed mounting screws are the only thing holding the box to the stud, why not flip the breaker off, remove the outlet from the box, and then just remove the mounting screws and bring the box out to be flush with the green board?

Install the mounting screws again, the outlet, switch the power on, and install the chrome cover plate meant for this application.
 
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mrb

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csp said:
If the two exposed mounting screws are the only thing holding the box to the stud, why not flip the breaker off, remove the outlet from the box, and then just remove the mounting screws and bring the box out to be flush with the green board?

Install the mounting screws again, the outlet, switch the power on, and install the chrome cover plate meant for this application.
Click to expand...

those holes are right at the edge of the box, cant mount it flush with them.
 
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MrMark

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That is essentially trying to make a 2 gang metal box into a smart box, something it wasn't designed to be. The screws would have to be driven at a 45 degree angle because of access problems any other way. The Smart box is designed and UL approved to put in screws from the side because it has screw bosses and the screw head is recessed and this protects the wires from chaffing on the screw head.

The modification suggested is not kosher. The reason I asked about the screws in the first place is because they don't look right in that install. They are raised and could chaffe the wires. Pan head screws would be more appropriate.
 
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mrb

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MrMark said:
That is essentially trying to make a 2 gang metal box into a smart box, something it wasn't designed to be. The screws would have to be driven at a 45 degree angle because of access problems any other way. The Smart box is designed and UL approved to put in screws from the side because it has screw bosses and the screw head is recessed and this protects the wires from chaffing on the screw head.

The modification suggested is not kosher. The reason I asked about the screws in the first place is because they don't look right in that install. They are raised and could chaffe the wires. Pan head screws would be more appropriate.
Click to expand...

i agree. the box used isnt really for this type of installation (i dont really understand why they even make the stupid things)
 
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v7guy

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The wire ran is 6/2

I just picked up that box because the holes for the plug on the box matched up with the 50A plug I was installing. I "assumed" it was meant for the plug... I couldn't really find anything else that looked like it would work I also couldn't find anything that was rated for 6/2 in a plastic box so I was kind forced to use metal.

as for the screws, I couldn't manage to get the screws drove in from a deeper position in the box even if I had drilled holes. there just wasn't enough room.

I figured I just haven't ran across the proper cover.

The piece I put on backwards to cover everything up was the only way I could figure to cover it, but it really doesn't give a decent finished look.

The information for working on 220 stuff is pretty scarce online and in the few books I've read.


for summary...
to get a nice finished project, get the deep 4" box install it, then the mud ring mounts to the box, the outlet mounts to the mud ring, and then the cover plate can be used (I actually have those cover plates already, just couldn't figure out how to mount it).
Also I need to make sure to get the 3/4 mud ring so that it mounts flush with the 5/8 sheetrock

I reckon I'll probably just rip it out and do it right, I'll feel better about it. I'll tackle one of em tonight, post up some pics to make sure that I did it correctly.
 
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MrMark

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All correct. Just get the double gang 3/4 rise mud ring. On the 4S box, get the one with the mounting flange so you fasten top and bottom of the side flange to the stud.
 
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MrMark

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v7guy said:
http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

so I'm looking for this?

I got delayed with Christmas shopping and tending to the dog and the misses and didn't get the products I needed bought. Heading out in the morning to remedy the situation.
Click to expand...

That's close but not right. That one has the mounting flanges like you want but you want the DEEP (it is 2.5 inches deep). You also do not want the romex clamps inside as they are probably not big enough for what you are using.

You are using 6/2 romex right? Make sure the 4S DEEP box has 3/4 KO's. Check on the listing for the 3/4 nm clamps to make sure that they accomodate the 6/2. You may need to step up to 1" NM clamps and then make sure the box has 1" KO's. I am not certain the 3/4 clamps are big enough - you may know though from your first attempt.
 
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danski0224

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v7guy said:
this is kind of my hang out for the next 10+ years and right now I'm really in the teething stage and learning a lot of details. I want to do it right even if it's more work. I'm not out anything other than time and materials. I haven't paid anyone to do anything... in cases like this it's obvious. In other cases where things turned out exceptional it's also obvious... but in the good way lol. I'm the owner and have time to fuss over the details. I'm still not sure if it's worth the work but those extenders look great and I don't make/loose money with this work.
Here's pics of my best solution to date and then also the other opening that is bare. I used 5/8 green board everywhere.
PC190414.jpg
Click to expand...

It will be easier to cut the drywall and patch, but that's up to you. I would cut stud to stud and 16" tall, centered on the electrical box.

You need one of these: http://www.garvinindustries.com/Ele...ts-and-Clamps-for-Nonmetallic-Sheathed-Cables

Then you can install a single device 5/8" mud ring: http://www.garvinindustries.com/Ele...Device-Covers/One-Gang-Device-Rings/52C14-5-8

Trim with this: http://www.garvinindustries.com/Dev...ates/Stainless-Steel--All-Device-Styles/SS1PO

That should do it.
 
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