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R19 fiberglass insulation pole barn?

perkin50

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Oct 28, 2009
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Jackson Michigan
Due to the high cost of spray foam insulation I would like to use fiberglass. This is what I am planning:

I have girts 2 foot on center on both sides of the 6x6 poles. I want to put R19 un-faced insulation between the girts, then a plastic vapor barrier, and lastly osb?

Will I have any problems with this?
 
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WIMike

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Dec 21, 2010
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That's essentially what I want to do too, except instead of OSB I'll use liner panels(steel). I asked the same question in another thread and don't believe there has been a response to it yet. I don't see how it could be a problem though.
 

FatFenderBowTie

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Manitoba boonies
similar to what they did on mine...but I went with steel too

IMG_9352.jpg


IMG_9354.jpg
 
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perkin50

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Nice pictures!

My main concern is the fiberglass insulation on the steel?

Will the insulation have mositure and mildew issues since it it contacting the steel?
 

swvega

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princeton mn
Thats what I did to mine.30x60 morton building. Stripped the truss with 2x4's every 24" and put up vapor barrier then thin liner and blew r-50 fiberglass on ceiling. r-19 on walls vapor barrier and 1/2' osb.I'am in mn and I can heat it to 60 turn off heat and it's still above 32 after 24hr at below 0.
 

Novicaine

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Central Illinois
Nice pictures!

My main concern is the fiberglass insulation on the steel?

Will the insulation have mositure and mildew issues since it it contacting the steel?

That's how I did my shed, but it's not fully heated yet.

The idea here, looking from the top down is:

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ outside tin
============== outside horizontal purlin 1.5" (A)
[] .............. [] 6x6 posts (5.5") with bats (..) between them
------------------ vapor barrior
============== inside horizontal "purlin" or "stringer" 1.5" (B)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx osb or tin (inside wall covering)

So clearly on the inside the bats only contact the vapor barrier.
On the outside, there is a theoretical 1.5" gap between the posts and the outside tin because of the outside horizontal purlin (A). So the bats may touch the tin in places, but in general there is an air gap there where air can circulate, so the condensation that forms on the tin won't be pressed tightly to the bats, and the air can dry it out.

I did it this way because I checked out how someone else's shop in the area did it and they had the builder do it (a big name, FBI,Morton,or Cleary), so I figure that's a proper way to go.

The R19 fiberglass is ~6"+ and you're fitting it in a 5.5+1.5=7" cavity between the vapor barrier and tin. So it does work out about right and as I installed it it all seemed to fit.
 

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swvega

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Remeasure your opening. On mine I have a 6x6 pole plus a 2x4 perlin on the outside wall which adds 1.5" to the 6x6.Then on the inside wall I have a 2x4 perlin which adds another 1.5" So I have 3" in 2x4 perlins plus a 6x6 pole between tin and osb on inside wall. So I have plenty off air space in wall with r-19.
 

Novicaine

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Thats what I did to mine.30x60 morton building. Stripped the truss with 2x4's every 24" and put up vapor barrier then thin liner and blew r-50 fiberglass on ceiling. r-19 on walls vapor barrier and 1/2' osb.I'am in mn and I can heat it to 60 turn off heat and it's still above 32 after 24hr at below 0.

What is "thin liner"? Steel?
On my shed, my trusses are space 8' apart and the building company said that for the ceiling, I could span that with steel liner panels, and blow up to 18" of cellulose (I think) onto it without needing 2x4's every 24". Seems like I'll be asking a lot of the steel panels, but I looked at another shop done that way, and it seems fine.
I wonder if you needed the 24" 2x4s? Just curious....
 

swvega

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princeton mn
Sorry I meant tin liner. Morton said the same thing but for the few $ more I put up 2x4's. Just felt safer and You can use the thinner steel with the 2x4's. I think it was easier to put up the vapor barrier with the 2x4's also.I blew in about 24" or better of fiberglass in mine. For area it was suppose to be about r-50. Morton said to not use cellulose in walls or ceiling. They have found that the moisture that bulids up in walls and ceiling can react with the cellulose and eat up any steel on trusses or side walls.
 
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perkin50

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Jackson Michigan
Did you guys seal the bottom of the steel before you put up the insulation?

My barn has small air gaps at the bottom of the steel. I was thinking of sealing it with foam sealer? But maybe it is better to let the steel breathe?
 

Ohio Auto

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Ohio
I have a 30 X 48 steel clear span building with 2x6 perlins and perimiter boards. (basically like a pole barn except I have steel beams). I used several cans of foam sealer to seal up air gaps. I then used rolled faced R19 insulation in the sidewalls and ceiling. It was a little more expensive..but I wanted the rolled insulation in the ceiling vs. blown. I have drywall on the walls and steel liner panels for the ceiling. I just installed a Lennox high efficiency furnace. Also my garage doors are insulated as well.

I keep it at 46 degrees until I'm ready to go out and work in it, then I turn it up to 55. Great sweatshirt temp to work in. Pic attached.

Completedshop004.jpg
 
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swvega

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princeton mn
If your talking about the openings at the bottom of the tin no do not seal that off. You need the air to keep the inside of tin moisture free. If its cold out frost will build up on the inside of the tin then when the sun hits it it will melt and you need those openings for it to run out. If it cant your insulation will get wet and not do you any good.
 

samert111

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Rockford, Mi
If your talking about the openings at the bottom of the tin no do not seal that off. You need the air to keep the inside of tin moisture free. If its cold out frost will build up on the inside of the tin then when the sun hits it it will melt and you need those openings for it to run out. If it cant your insulation will get wet and not do you any good.

Just curious then why they make the special foam closure strips to seal up these openings if they were meant to be left open once the walls were insulated?

In my PB the wind driven snow will come up thru these openings into the building and could get on the insulation. So I'm closing up all of these gaps with the foam closure strips to prevent this and knock down as much air infiltration as possible. I've also added Tyvek house wrap in between posts before studding and insulating. Even with the closure strips the tin is not totally air tight due to the overlapping of the panels.
 

imavanner2

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Apr 6, 2009
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Jackson NJ U.S.A
Just curious then why they make the special foam closure strips to seal up these openings if they were meant to be left open once the walls were insulated?

In my PB the wind driven snow will come up thru these openings into the building and could get on the insulation. So I'm closing up all of these gaps with the foam closure strips to prevent this and knock down as much air infiltration as possible. I've also added Tyvek house wrap in between posts before studding and insulating. Even with the closure strips the tin is not totally air tight due to the overlapping of the panels.

WHERE did you find these closer strips i never saw them?
 

CamarosRus

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Renton, WA (Seattle)
One of my Camaro contacts in WA state builds Pole Barns professionally. He wrote us the following.....................

"If the guy puts bare insulation bats in between the roof purlins, he is going to get moisture problems up in there. Metal roofing and siding, is particular about how it gets insulated. I always use insulation blanket with a vinyl backing, and it gets laid down first over the tops of the purlins, and then the metal goes on over that. (Vinyl side down). This creates a nice squish factor where there is no possibility of air gaps that can create moisture. If you get one air gap in between the bats and the metal with no ventilation, it will create moisture. I would never do it that way. However, if I had the insulation blanket installed first like I described above, I would have no problem installing bats for additional R value. The roof in my shop is done that way."
 

swvega

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I can see that. I didnt put insulation on the roof perlins I put 2x4s ever 24"on the bottom of the trusses then vapor barrier over that then my tin liner. Then I went up top and blew in r-50 fiberglass just like you would if you did a house. The bottoms of the eves. are vented to the outside and I made sure that stayed open and it vents out at the ridge.So I maybe have 2' or so of dead air space between insulation and the top of the roof at perlins and tin.I wish I had put tyvek up before they had put on outside tin on side walls but to late now.
 
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tdkkart

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I can see that. I didnt put insulation on the roof perlins I put 2x4s ever 24"on the bottom of the trusses then vapor barrier over that then my tin liner. Then I went up top and blew in r-50 fiberglass just like you would if you did a house. The bottoms of the eves. are vented to the outside and I made sure that stayed open and it vents out at the ridge.So I maybe have 2' or so of dead air space between insulation and the top of the roof at perlins and tin.I wish I had put tyvek up before they had put on outside tin on side walls but to late now.


This is teh way mine is done, as is just about every one I've ever seen done around here. I've not yet seen any moisture on the underside of my roof steel. The vapor bariier and insulation blocks moisture coming from below, and what is now attic space is well ventilated.
 

samert111

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Rockford, Mi
Why did you elect to use Tyvek instead of just plastic sheeting ?

Tyvek is not intended to be used as a vapor barrier like plastic sheeting. For that I'm using kraft faced fiberglass insulation which is really only a vapor retarder but what I choose to use due to my budget.

I'm using the Tyvek as a draft barrier from the outside in. Followng is a quote from the Dupont website.

"The unique non-woven fiber structure of DuPont™ Tyvek® HomeWrap® stops air movement through the walls helping to provide a more energy efficient home."

The Tyvek also breathes to allow moisture out of the building. Following is another quote from the Dupont website.

"The breathable structure of this house wrap allows moisture vapor to pass through to help promote drying in wall systems which can aid in preventing the growth of mold and mildew."

Granted, I'm not using it as a continuous building wrap as it's intended to be used because I didn't want to take all the siding off to apply it in a continious roll around the building. I just cut it and stapled it to the insides of the posts and the purlins. I'm just trying to knock down as much wind as possible from penentrating into the building and protect the wall insulation from any possible moisture getting past the metal siding from wind driven rain or snow.

So from the outside in I've got the metal siding, purlins, Tyvek, studs framed in between the posts with R19 Kraft faced fiberglass and finally interior sheeting of OSB.

WHERE did you find these closer strips i never saw them?

My local Carter Lumber stocks them, or you can probably get them online here: http://www.corrugatedmetal.com/accessories/closure-strips/
 

Rocker4x4

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Nov 9, 2015
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Bumping up a 5yr old thread cause I cant get any response on my other one. I'm looking at doing this as a option as well, although mine is not a Morton and is not a pole barn, its 2x6 studs with 2x4 girts. So i'm thinking of just plain ol 6" batts with a 6 mill plastic vapor barrier, then steel liner panels. I was more worried about the plastic trapping the moisture but Morton has been doing this for 30+ years or so. It must work. What about ceiling? If they are not blowing cell in, what are they using?
 
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