? for the Wood Workers. 2x4 or 2x6 for Bench Project?

JohnMcD348 · Feb 5, 2011

I'm ready to finally build my bench in my garage and was wondering if there's any major differences in the use of 2x4 or 2x6 lumber in regards to weight capability?

My bench will be about 8' long and between 30-45" deep(haven't decided yet) and 41" tall. I plan on using 4x4's for the legs with one span being 5' with shelving and the remaining 3' left open. And, I'll be using either 3/4" or 23/32" plywood with one layer attached inside the frame and another layer mounted over the entire frame giving me 2 layers total with 2x4 braced rails running under to add additional support. Here's a rough sketch of what I'm thinking. Please be kind, I've never had a drafting class in my life and it's not to scale.

OK, so my questions are:

Would I be better served by using 2x6 for the outer frame rails instead of 2x4's or is there little real strength differences between the two when using plain pine boards laid on the vertical?

What is the best way to attach this frame? I plan on using regular wood screws and glue with multiple screws used in each piece of wood.

Would trimming into the 4x4 legs weaken the structure? How would be the best way to brace or support the legs on the outer edge that won't have shelving?

Anything else you may see as a potential problem, please speak up. I'd like any input you have on this project. I want this bench to be able to support alot of weight as I will be using it at times to rebuild a transmission for my Bronco.

Thanks you for your time and input.
John

Zengineer · Feb 5, 2011

You can easily use 2x4's for it all. Double them up on the legs, and cut 1 of the doubled up ones to provide maximum support. This sort of idea:

Cheap. Easy. Strong.

Also for a bench top you might want to consider a solid core door. I picked up a 84"x34" solid core door for $60... much stronger than plywood.

JohnMcD348 · Feb 5, 2011

I'd thought about doubling 2x4's but decided it would be stronger to use the 4x4's and route out an indentation area to attach the vertical boards for the external frame. That way the legs for the platform would be 1 solid piece and less likely to deform if a heavy load is placed on it. That's also why I want to have a double plywood layer top with bracing under it along the length of the table.

I am also interested in ways people have designed table tops to accommodate power tools or other equipment.

bczygan · Feb 5, 2011

Structures of every kind are all about triangles. Imagine your workbench made of long straws. The area where they intersect is very small. If you fasten each joint with only one fastener then each joint acts as a hinge and the whole structure will act as a parallelogram and rack to the side and fall down. Even if fastened with multiple fasteners the triangulated area is small and the force it will resist is limited. Members with a larger cross section will resist more force at the connections both by allowing fasteners to be spaced further apart and by having longer faces pressing against other members. Also, a deeper member will resist bending better in the length of the bench (From loads placed on top the bench) and allow fewer supports. In other words a 2x6 is better. To get more strength use stronger wood species and pick individual boards with straight grain and few (Or no) knots or other irregularities. Take a look at how woodworkers workbenches are constructed. They are designed to resist loads from multiple directions. They use hardwoods and steel threaded rods and nuts to help the wood to resist loads. In addition they use mass in the table top to also resist loads produced during use. Triangulate wherever you can for strength. Think of the X bracing on the back and sides of steel shelving. Solid panels of plywood on the back and sides and bottom and top of cabinets provide triangulation when properly fastened along edges.

Addrock · Feb 5, 2011

I used 2 X 4 supporting double layer plywood with ledger board attached to the wall (10 ft long) and 3 4 X 4 posts (corners and center) with ladder construction, just like your drawing. Construction adhesive and screwed together. Super strong! I can dance a jig on top (250 plus tools). Another way of getting a lot of strenght without a lot of height is a tortion box, mentioned above as a solid core door.

thrifty bill · Feb 5, 2011

JohnMcD348 said:
I'd thought about doubling 2x4's but decided it would be stronger to use the 4x4's and route out an indentation area to attach the vertical boards for the external frame. That way the legs for the platform would be 1 solid piece and less likely to deform if a heavy load is placed on it. That's also why I want to have a double plywood layer top with bracing under it along the length of the table.

I am also interested in ways people have designed table tops to accommodate power tools or other equipment.

Check Jack Olsen's garage build. He uses a receiver hitch to mount table top grinder, vise, etc. Pretty slick install. I plan to do the same with a benchtop sander, grinder, and bicycle wheel truing stand.

bww_mnm · Feb 5, 2011

JohnMcD348 said:
I'd thought about doubling 2x4's but decided it would be stronger to use the 4x4's and route out an indentation area to attach the vertical boards for the external frame. That way the legs for the platform would be 1 solid piece and less likely to deform if a heavy load is placed on it. That's also why I want to have a double plywood layer top with bracing under it along the length of the table.

I am also interested in ways people have designed table tops to accommodate power tools or other equipment.

I'll second zengineer on sistering two 2x4 vs one 4x4. If you want to route, chisel, etc, then 4x4 is a good way to go. But, for a functional bench made of construction lumber, it'll go together quicker w/ 2x4's sistered. Glue 'em up and it'll be as strong / stronger than the 4x4?

edit: for my garage, i copied family handymans best workbench. I used 3/4" plywood for the top. It seems pretty darn strong / stable. Hindsight, i'd use spacers/blocking to get the front and back rails spaced exactly the same for drawer fitting reasons.

http://www.rd.com/images/offer/fh/project_plans/pdf/FH97Feb_Workbench.pdf

JohnMcD348 · Feb 5, 2011

Another question on Assembly. I've got plenty of varying length wood screws and figure on drilling and securing in multiple points. But, would it be beneficial to also use something like 3/8 Lag bolts and washers on the 2x6-4x4 attachments?

I've decided on using the 2x6 for the outer top frame and 2x4 mounted either every 12 or 16 inches inside the frame with 3/4" or 23/32" plywood. I want to have the top overhang from the frame but I'm not sure what would really be the most functional length. I don't know if 4" is too little or 8" is too much. I want to have the capability to mount things under in the future. I had seen the Receiver mount before when I first started looking at ideas and liked it as well. I can't find that thread now but I'll keep looking.

bww_mnm · Feb 5, 2011

here's another to look at:

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/175_Workbench/

bczygan · Feb 5, 2011

When using solid core doors for table tops, be aware not all are solid wood. Other materials are used.

http://www.ehow.com/about_7238100_solid-core-door_.htmlhttp://

JohnMcD348 · Feb 5, 2011

I see this bench as a do everything hold anything bench. I'll be setting my transmission on it when I tear it down to rebuild in the coming months. I've decided at 41" height, my 6'3" body is comfortable working at that level and I can sit at it with a bar stool style seat and comfortably use it to work on radio, do some reloading at times, tool repair, home maintenance, restore my Cushman scooters, and pretty much anything else that comes my way.

This is what I envision for the bench. So please keep the impressions coming. I'm taking the ideas in and seeing how I can modify my idea to incorporate them as I think they'll improve it.

woody 73 · Feb 5, 2011

I look at this way if you think that maybe sometime in the future you are going to put a lot of weight,and I mean a lot of weight on that table then by all means go with the 3/8 lag bolts other than that it would be somewhat of an overkill.

mdbeck1 · Feb 6, 2011

Go with two shorter benches. Years ago I made three 24" X 48" X 30" (ht) benches with 4X4 legs. The stringers were 2X3 (ripped down 2X6) and put them together with 3" wood screws. The tops were all 3/4 CDX plywood. They have held up well through the years and I have abused them a LOT. I have no qualms about standing on them, putting my toolboxes on them, transmissions, engines, or anything else. Heck one time I seriously considered putting a car on top of them. If I'd had four of them I probably would have.

The reason for the multiple smaller benches is you can change configurations in your shop easier. That 8 foot bench looks like the thing to do now but later you will probably want to move it to another location.

Also make a two or three inch overhang for the top. You will eventually want to clamp something to the top and if you are flush with the bracing you have to have a minimum of a 4" clamp.

X2 on the receivers for vices and bench grinders. It lets you use the whole bench when you need it. It's also fun to see the look on your friends faces when they see the vice off of the bench and you go put it on the back of your truck.

cdent · Feb 6, 2011

I think it depends if it'll be up against a wall, 45" would be kind of a pain to reach over and the back side would probably just collect junk. You could lag it on to pick up a lot of stiffness.

I'd consider a double 2"x4" for the front rail, every little bit helps if you need to store things under the bench. I'd also rather through bolt than using 3/8" lags if you can get at the backside. I wouldn't worry about too much over hang on the front edge, maybe just enough to use c-clamps once in a while or just use longer clamps if needed to reach the depth of the rail.

Of the projects you listed, I'd make a separate free standing bench just for the ******. I'd want it smaller and easy to work 360* around it. Plus the top is going to get damaged on that one. Save that one for rough work, because it seems like you need a fairly clean area for some of the hobbies. I'd cringe at having a couple quarts of ****** fluid soaked in to the top and running down the side of my reloading bench.

sscustom · Feb 6, 2011

heres mine i made from some recycled kitchen doors , keep in mind its mainly a sit at table and assembly table

bww_mnm · Feb 6, 2011

I have to agree that 40" depth is crazy deep if against a wall. If would make the upper wall behind it unusable while standing. Mine is 30" deep and it's too deep for me to effectively reach the peg board. I'm only 5'10" though

bww_mnm · Feb 6, 2011

Also, unless u are storing something 5' wide, u could break that up into 2 2 1/2 ft sections ... That would make that side stronger if u are worried about that.

bczygan · Feb 6, 2011

As the above posters mentioned, first decide if it will be fixed in one position or will be moved. Also decide if you want it on casters. Fixed can be hefty, heavy construction. Movable needs a balance of strength and lighter but still strong construction. Decide what uses it will be put to. That will determine the strength and construction and size and properties of the top. Maybe you need more than one purpose built bench as mentioned above. Decide if you need the top to overhang so you can sit at it for work. Decide if you want access underneath for storage. Decide if that storage should be fully enclosed in drawers or open shelving. Enclosing 3 sides of the bottom with panels is a way to make it strong and light. The top and a bottom shelf make it a box with one open side. This is the strongest lightest construction. One approach to the top decision is to use a strong thick material like 3/4" plywood (One or two layers) then cover that with a sacrificial wear layer like 1/4" hardboard.

bww_mnm · Feb 6, 2011

Here's another workbench site. More ww'ing focused, but good ideas still:

http://www.workbenchdesign.net/

JohnMcD348 · Feb 6, 2011

It will definitely be a permanent in place bench. I have a thread on here somewhere from a year or so ago when I first started looking into the idea with pictures of the workspace in my garage. Here's a shot for reference sake. Please pardon the mess, we were still moving in when I took it....

The opening is about 9' from wall to wall with the shorter side wall measuring about 6'. I can't recall the exact measurements right now since it was Nov08 when I made them and didn't write it down at the time. But anyway, my original plans were for a table 8 1/2' long that would be permanent. then I would have a smaller table on rollers that would go against the short wall for additional workspace/storage as needed. So I know I definitely want 1 large heavy duty table to work on. I'll build the smaller one later.

Also, I forgot to mention in my other posts that I would glue white smooth laminate board to the top surface for ease of cleanup and also so that when it needs to be replaced, I can just peel it off and replace it. I did the same thing when I built my reloading bench so that I could easily clean it and not have to worry about loose powder getting caught in any rough surfaces.

Also, since I'd be using plain pine boards, what is the best recommendation for protecting the wood? I'd thought about leaving it plain but again, varnishing it would make it more presentable I think.

thanks again for the input, I really appreciate it.

JohnMcD348 · Feb 6, 2011

1 other question, more out of curiosity.

When I went pricing lumber yesterday, I couldn't seem to find regular 3/4" plywood. I found a lot of particle board and OSB type stuff but no actual Plywood. The closest I found was the 23/32". Anyone know why that is? I checked Lowes and Home Depot and that 's what they both had. Some Google searching has stated the industry began to relabel 3/4" to 23/32" but if they are doing that then why not relabel 2x4, 2x6's etc to meet their actual dimensions? I guess it the reason why an 8' 2x4 is now 92 5/8"?

5lima30 · Feb 6, 2011

I just recently built a workbench. I went with 2x4 framing and 4x4 legs with 5/8" plywood. (Just b/c I was given 13 sheets.) +1 on triangulating the frame. What I did was completely enclose the back of the workbench with 1/2" OSB. This made it tremendously more stable! I have already used it like scaffolding and it was rock solid. As an added bonus things won't fall off the back of the shelving. YMMV.

Addrock · Feb 6, 2011

I thought that I would include some pics of my bench mounted vice (for wood) and vice in a vice (steel). Also a detail that I like is hardwood on the edge of the bench, when you radius the edge it takes a beating.
23/32 is what we have been calling 3/4, your right it's dumb. 92 5/8 is a precut, add a 2X on the bottom and 2 on the top and you have a wall 8' tall. :bounce:

JohnMcD348 · Feb 6, 2011

Oh I see now. So instead of the 96" boards these are mainly used for framing. That makes more sense now. Thanks. Would you mind posting a few more shots of that vice and how you attached it to your bench? I really like those types, I just can't seem to find any around my area. If I can find one I'd like to do that instead of the receiver hitch idea.

Addrock · Feb 6, 2011

This is a QUICK drawing view cross-section of the front (as if you take off the front skirt board. let me know if you still need a pic.

JohnMcD348 · Feb 6, 2011

OK, I get the idea. Thanks.

rick carpenter · Feb 6, 2011

Take a look at Scott Landis' "The Workbench Book". Lots of great ideas. A massive bench surface seems to want to be the Roubo design, but your drawing seems to want to be the Nicholson design. Go over to sawmillcreek.org and poke around a bit. Chris Schwarz's blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/ is a great site too.

JohnMcD348 · Feb 7, 2011

Thank You Rick. I will. Always looking for ideas.

demographic · Feb 7, 2011

rick carpenter said:
Take a look at Scott Landis' "The Workbench Book". Lots of great ideas. A massive bench surface seems to want to be the Roubo design, but your drawing seems to want to be the Nicholson design. Go over to sawmillcreek.org and poke around a bit. Chris Schwarz's blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/ is a great site too.

That workbench book is excellent for woodworkers, full of great ideas.

JohnMcD348 · Feb 19, 2011

OK, I've modified my idea a little and have some other questions.

1st, I'm going to shorten it to about 6' instead of 8 and build a second bench to run the other length so that if I ever needed the extra length, I could just have them both together in the corner.

Now, I want to include a shallow storage area into the bench so I won't be going with the double layer plywood. I'm still going to keep the original design only splitting it in half with 1/2 including a shelf and 1/2 left open under. The shelved area is where I would place the under top storage. I am thinking still using double layer on the non shelved area so I can have a place for heavier projects if need be. But I wonder how much stronger the double layer plywood is compared to a single. Is it really that much more? Consider I'll still be using the 23/32(3/4) plywood.

2nd, I've been looking at different benches ans would like to know if there is really any structural strength differences between using a solid 4x4 and routing to fit the cross members or using 2x4's sistered together and cut to fit? Assume using the same type of pine lumber for either 4x4 or 2x4. Non of the wood will be hardwood or pressure treated since I plan to varnish the bench to protect and preserve the wood.

jessemac · Feb 19, 2011

here is the bench i made probably not the best way to do it but here it is

so i put a lip on the plywood to clamp stuff to it

under the bottom shelf is 8 foot 2x4 storage

bczygan · Feb 19, 2011

jessemac,
I'm looking at what you built and it is a good general purpose light to medium duty bench. If what you want to use it for was similar to the OP wanted, I would do a couple of things to make sure I could put a trans or even an engine on it. First, I would put a sheet of 1/2" or thicker plywood on the back and ends. This will brace it from folding up. Right now only nails resist this. I've seen sawhorses with a lot more nails than you have, fold up when a large weight and a small lateral force were applied to them. I was part of the weight and you should have seen the surprised look on our faces as we tried to install a beam in a pocket and the 4 sawhorses collapsed beneath us. Very lucky no one was hurt as the beam fell. The nails holding the sawhorses together pulled out from a very small lateral (Sideways) force as if they were being pulled out by a cats paw. Nails have no strength in this direction.
So the solution to resist lateral force is to triangulate the bench in both directions with a panel of plywood fastened with screws or nails @ 6"o.c.

The second thing is the load placed vertically on the table. If this is a large load like a trans or an engine you need to support it properly. The first thing resisting this load is the plywood top. This acts as a beam between the 2x4 supports. A transmission will create a couple of point loads because it's bottom isn't flat. Make sure you have adequate thickness to resist this. Also think about the wear surface. This can be sacrificial like hardboard or permanent like metal. In any case, the plywood should be glued and fastened ofter, say 6"o.c.
The next thing to consider is what supports the top. There is direct support from the top of the legs where the plywood top rests directly on them. But the top also rests on a 2x4 framework. This is fastened to the legs by nails. These are in shear. This is not as strong`as a bolted connection and is a weak point in the design. If you had used the method of letting the 2x4's into the legs, they would rest on the legs and be much stronger. An alternative would be to use some 1/4" lag screws countersunk in the face of the 2x4 top frame and into the legs and top frame cross members. There is a good opportunity to run a lag bolt through the 2x4's that are on each side of the legs (And through the leg as well) and create one rigid assembly. Nails are OK for supporting the bottom shelf.
Follow these suggestions and for a couple pieces of plywood and some bolts and screws and nails you will have a table built like a tank and capable of supporting anything you can put on it.

Bill`

jessemac · Feb 20, 2011

hey thanks for the feed back bill i kinda put this together on the fly. the bench is held together by screws if that makes a difference i agree about the plywood on the back to add strength and the bench wouldn't hold a car motor or ****** just a motorcycle engine and ******. here was another idea to support the bench top i had. the lag bolt would be hard to do because of all the screws in the 8 foot 2x4 so i was going to screw 2x4's to the 4x4 legs under the 8' 2x4's to the ground to support the top better before i screwed the plywood into it

Greg-nwo · Feb 26, 2011

One of the neater ideas I've seen for a workbench is using hardwood flooring for the top. It's not all that expensive, you can buy it pre-finished and it is very resistant to wear. Pretty sure I am going to try it this summer when I build my bench in the garage.

JohnMcD348 · Feb 27, 2011

That's an interesting idea but I would think the small lines between the panels would collect dirt and be hard to keep clean. I had considered using 2x4 or 2x6 or even 10 boards laid horizontal and planed as a top for strength but decided against it in favor of a double layer of thick plywood and smooth formica overlay instead.

Another question I have on wood choices. In another thread I saw where it was recommended to get the 10' or longer 4x4's since they are typically made from the centers and wood grain is a little better. Is pressure treated wood any better than raw pine? It's going to be in the garage so weather really isn't' an issue. I plan on varnishing the wood while I build the bench. If it does, I guess I'll look more towards the YellaWood brands since most of the other stuff around is that dark greenish colored treated wood. I would have to get something like that anyway since the only plain 4x4 wood I have found anywhere was my local Lowe's and they only sell the 8' lengths.

Greg-nwo · Feb 27, 2011

Well on a typical flooring installation you would have those small gaps as the floor expand and contracts but on a small space like a workbench you should be able to have the flooring butted up tight.... like a bowling alley.

JohnMcD348 · Feb 27, 2011

I guess so, I would think it would require a little more over engineering to make sure the top didn't loosen under regular use.

ZRX61 · Feb 27, 2011

If you want it really ridgid use lag bolts instead of deck screws & it will be stiffer than a wedding ****. I use 1/4in x 3in, or 1/4 by 2 1/2in if the heads are flush by using a forstner bit.
I'm about to upgrade a bench I have & will take pics.

metal1313 · Feb 27, 2011

dont use regualar lags. i have found good deck screws to be stronger, my little 1/4 impact has snapped lots of 1/4 lags.

i would how ever recommend, spax lags. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...age=1&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0&tx=145&ty=82 they seem to bite really well, are stong and the washer head provides alot of positive traction

JohnMcD348 · Feb 28, 2011

I was figuring on using a combination of lat bolts and screws. My plan was to use a 1/4"-3/8" bolt off center with 4 full length deck screws in the corners.

Sort of like this:

Front/Rear facing side
x-----x
|
| O
|
x-----x

Side facing
x-----x
| O
|
x-----x

Not quite to spec but hopefully you get the idea. This way the lag bolts with washers will basically cross over each other for added compression into the joint and the 4 large deck screws would make certain it wouldn't allow side or forward movement.

I'll be using a 2x6 for the front and rear boards and 2x4 for the sides. I'm also going to be mounting 1x2 behind the main frame to allow a seat for the first layer of plywood on everything except the front frame. My plan is to trim down the 2x6 front board to allow both sheets of plywood to rest on top of it and hang over about 3". I haven't decided yet on the amount of overhang.

? for the Wood Workers. 2x4 or 2x6 for Bench Project?

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