My 19 X 19 wood-metal-car shop redo

Thruxton · Feb 22, 2011

My 19 X 19 shop redo- post quake update!

I finally decided that as my 69th is rolling around, it was time to stop crawling around on my back in my gravel drive whenever I needed to work on my car. A few years ago I rebuilt a Jag XJ40 subframe and differential doing that, and now I have some suspension and other work to do on my Porsche 928, but this time it's going to be out of the weather, under a roof, and on concrete!

I have also let my little attached garage/shop slowly turn into storage space, which meant a major cleanup before and after I could get anything done. Time for a complete redo. A major impetus for doing this redo, besides my advancing years, was a mention of GJ on Rennlist, the Porsche list I belong to, with a link to The 12-Gauge Garage. I clicked, sat, and since then have spent many hours on this forum getting ideas. And I'll give credit for them as I describe the project - I owe some guys here real thanks.

For background, when we bought this place a dozen years ago only one half of the "garage" had a concrete floor, the second half was dirt. The "doors" were sheets of plywood painted black with no real hinges. in other words the addition had never been finished. First thing back then was to pour concrete in the second half (4" 3000psi - glad I spec'ed that now), and finish the wall and door. As a shop I did not provide a garage door, just a man door.

Over time got all my tools in, hung a lot of "temporary" wiring, installed air and vac lines, and then just let things pretty much go to hell.

So here are some pics of what I started with in January-

View media item 21851
View media item 21852
View media item 21853
View media item 21854
What a mess. First thing to do was make plans. These boiled down to insulate, finish the walls, raise the ceiling, rewire, replumb air, and new dust collector lines. But first of all, replan the layout. This had to be done to change the area from shop to shop + garage. To do this I needed a graphics tool - I've cut out cardboard and moved it around on graph paper, but that technique could not accommodate everything I needed to do. Over the years I've used a few programs, but for this I used something very simple (and free - you'll see I'm pretty cheap) Open Office Draw. It is a simple program but has some good features, the most important to me is its "Layers" function. This allows you to create a design in multiple layers which you can view in any combination you wish. First of course, the basic layout of the area, with new garage door and relocated window, then a "catalog" of all the tools and storage that needed to be fit in, done as scale drawings of their footprints, coded tan for powered, blue for other:

View media item 21857
View media item 21855
Next step, try to fit it all in. Besides making room for the 928, other considerations included separating the woodworking and metalworking areas, reducing storage to just what I use in the shop, heat and lighting, finishing the floor,and allowing for a MaxJax in the future if I get lucky - that's why I'm glad I spec'ed the new concrete the way I did. And my thanks to everyone here and on Rennlist for their discussion of this product!

Part 2 will about fitting it all in, and the first steps in getting it done. Thanks for reading, suggestions, comments, criticism, laughter - all appreciated!

green.bubbly · Feb 22, 2011

Sounds like you are going to be busy for a while. For me, clutter is a demotivator and I hate starting projects when I first have to spend time cleaning up and finding tools.

I think you will able to enjoy it much more once you have it organized and setup the way you need. Good luck and keep the pics coming.

BLUBAYOU · Feb 22, 2011

I'm currently in the same situation with a somewhat cluttered garage needing some organization. Just last night I purchased my insulation so I can begin closing the walls in.

I found that was the thing keeping me from getting organized, as I couldn't do any permanent storage until I had finished walls. I've drawn my 22x26 space up in Sketchup due to the 3d aspect f the program, which is nice for vertical considerations (lift, shelving, etc).

Good luck on yours!. I'm looking forward to see what you do with it!

Thruxton · Feb 22, 2011

Re: My 19 X 19 wood-metal-car shop redo - Part 2

First thing to do was arrange everything, with room for the car. That meant I needed a graphic for the car, which I cribbed from a Porsche manual. First the tools etc, then the car, then the car with the MaxJax - I used their layout drawing for this, adjusted, like the car, to scale. Each of these drawings is a different layer, which can be turned on or off at will. Helps me in visualizing things, like having to make that radial arm saw movable

.

Besides planning the floor layout to accommodate the MaxJax, I needed to rethink ceiling height. Here I was helped a great deal by posts by v7guy and wingcarenvy, where I got the idea of using collar beams to get the ceiling height of 9'6" I wanted. I think the reflectance of the "hipped" part of the ceiling might help with illumination as well. I added additional layers for wiring, work piece flow, dust collector piping, shelving, air lines - anything I could think of to complete the preliminary plans. And by now you may have noticed the layouts don't show the dust collector or the sandblast cabinet. I decided to move them outside to a concrete pad I had poured for two propane tanks. Went to an underground tank when I installed a standby generator last summer, which gave me an area right next to the shop for these items, just have to build a shed over them. I also decided to completely enclose the furnace in itw own "room" - I can do that because both air intake and exhaust are exterior. This also shows the MaxJax without the car:

Plans ready, on to some actual work. First I removed a lot of stuff to storage in a barn, then stripped the first two walls, insulated and sheetrocked them. I used 5/8 X on the house wall, and 1/2 sheetrock over 3/8 plywood on the rest, intending to reinforce the sheetrock and provide something that can hold a screw - so far seems to work very well, although I still find a stud for anything heavy. After finishing a wall I can move equipment in place and free up space for more work.

This week I'm working on the shed add-on, and the garage door wall. More on that later.

Jack Olsen · Feb 22, 2011

That's looking great. You're doing 19x19 proud.

A question: will the MaxJax allow you to back in and lift the car as well as when you pull in nose-first? It seems like it might be nice to have the engine closer to the tools and have the spreading-out room of opening the doors that way.

Thruxton · Feb 22, 2011

Thanks for the compliment, Master of Small Space, especially as your example was a major factor in getting me off my **** to start this project. As for backing in having advantages for some work, absolutely!- since a 928 has virtually perfect 50-50 weight distribution (and I know you get that humorous dig) it's pretty much the same overhang in either direction, the rear is actually a few inches longer (it is a 928 after all), so everything should be good. Opening doors, well, I'll have to live with that. But mine has a sunroof..

Jack Olsen said:
That's looking great. You're doing 19x19 proud.

A question: will the MaxJax allow you to back in and lift the car as well as when you pull in nose-first? It seems like it might be nice to have the engine closer to the tools and have the spreading-out room of opening the doors that way.

Thruxton · Feb 22, 2011

Re: My 19 X 19 wood-metal-car shop redo Part 2 cont'd

Just one more note on the planning phase. Here's what the layouts show with ALL layers visible. You can see why I like to use this technique, I think:

Gregg K · Feb 22, 2011

It looks like a tight fit, but with the lift you've got it made.

Having just finished crawling around under mine to do the engine mounts, a lift sure would be a nice addition.

Cheers!

edit- my 928, that is.

wickedsled · Feb 22, 2011

that look's sweet, with a smaller space you got to be more creative. all the more fun!

Thruxton · Feb 22, 2011

Gregg K said:
It looks like a tight fit, but with the lift you've got it made.

Having just finished crawling around under mine to do the engine mounts, a lift sure would be a nice addition.

Cheers!

edit- my 928, that is.

You mentioned motor mounts, thought it might be a 928! Did mine already, another gravel driveway job. Be glad when that's not the case, what a PITA!

Thruxton · Feb 22, 2011

wickedsled said:
that look's sweet, with a smaller space you got to be more creative. all the more fun!

Wickedsled indeed - like that avatar.

Gregg K · Feb 22, 2011

Thruxton said:
Be glad when that's not the case, what a PITA!

I have memories of working in dirt. Once upon a time I had no garage. And my backhoe differential blew. I spent one month working on that thing in the mud. Twice.

Thruxton · Feb 23, 2011

Gregg K said:
I have memories of working in dirt. Once upon a time I had no garage. And my backhoe differential blew. I spent one month working on that thing in the mud. Twice.

I could get my JD 5300 in but I would have to drop the ROPS. Hope I never have to though!

Thruxton · Apr 22, 2011

Re: My 19 X 19 wood-metal-car shop redo - Update Part 1

It's a rainy day, no outside work, so it's time for an update. Have made some progress, and I feel like I'm pretty much on schedule.

First, finished sheetrock work on the walls (trim yet to be done),moved a window on the driveway side to the rear side, opened up the wall where the window had been for the new garage door, which I then built and installed. Getting the sheetrock up meant I could start rearranging things according to the new plan.

I wanted swing out "carriage house" doors, but couldn't find any used and new were out of the question - simply too expensive. I decided to make my own, using a fairly traditional design that matched our modest little farmhouse. I have made sash before, but I don't have a shaper, so even for a small project like this it's a lot of work. I decided to try incorporating existing sash in the door design. The construction is quite simple. First, I was lucky enough to find a perfectly sized pair of sash in excellent condition at the recycle center, aka dump, for $8. I chose 1 X 6 as the right size for the panel trim, and 3/4 plywood for the door body. I cut holes in the plywood to fit the sash - the same dimension as the sash vertically, but 3/8 smaller horizontally. This way I could use the runner slots on the sides of the sash to hold them in the plywood- slip the first edge all the way in, fit the sash in and slide it about a 1/4 back to engage the second edge. Worked fine. Glued and screwed the trim to the first side with 1 1/4 screws, flipped the door over and glued and screwed the second side with 2" screws to penetrate all 3 layers. I used pin-type (gudgeon and pintle is probably more correct) large gate hinges- 16" long and 3/4" hardware, rated at 200# per. Cheaper than more decorative hinges, but at about $150 for the set of six, still not that cheap.

I was concerned about the threaded portion "working" within the 4 X 6 frame, so on the exterior I counterbored an undersized hole (the minor width of the nut), ran a nut up as far as I could on the threaded part, put it through the 3/4 hole in the frame, and used the nut and washer on the other side to draw the first nut into the counterbored hole on the outside. That way the threaded portion has, I think, far greater support. These doors are fairly heavy, and I do not want them shifting!

By the way, I know some will question using a plywood core because of potential warpage. I built some large sliding barn doors this way twelve years ago, and they have not warped a bit. One absolute (I think) requirement is to work on a very flat surface when you assemble them, or you will build in the warp you don't want. And start with flat plywood.

Trim on the outside of the doors was cut before being put in place to accommodate the hinges, and I think this gives some nice character to the whole assembly.

Part 2 to follow.

Thruxton · Apr 22, 2011

Re: My 19 X 19 wood-metal-car shop redo - Update Part 2

I build the little "shed" for the dust collector and sandblast cabinet, which fit precisely, by pure coincidence, on the concrete pad I had put in years ago for propane tanks (now replaced by a larger underground tank, needed partly by the standby genset installation last year).

On a side note, there have been a bunch of these very useful coincidences (finding the exactly right sized sash on the first try might be included) on this project: the concrete pad, the slate I put down the year before as part of a brick walk project will take very little adjustment to accommodate the swing out garage door entrance, and the collar beams will fit in just right for 4 foot sheetrock on the hipped sides of the ceiling, and 12 feet of sheetrock on the center raised flat area, so very little cutting will be needed! I love it when things work out like that, which ain't often. This project must have been meant to be!

The hardest part of this entire exercise so far has been something I have seen over and over here on the list: turning a store room back into a garage/shop. Letting a space like this turn into storage seems to be the norm, and figuring out what to do with the dross a common problem. My solution isn't worked out, for sure: I'm moving stuff into a barn, with the idea that I'll bring back what I need and junk whatever I can't sell or recycle. We'll see. Reading the adventures of others here really opened my eyes to this one.

I haven't brought the 928 in for work yet, but I spent several hours right outside the doors working on a door handle problem (928 and Jag XJ40 owners will know just what I am talking about), and the next day had to replace a hydraulic line on our 5300 (what a PITA that is!). Just being able to park right outside and have ready access to tools is already a HUGE improvement.

Coming up: bricking the apron into the entrance, installing the collar beams, ceiling insulation, roughing in the wiring for the lighting and installing all the shop wiring (separate panel, all surface-mount in IMT - and I'm posting a Q about wiring for stand-alone machines in a separate thread), then building the "furnace room" and finishing the sheetrock and trim. June is the target date for "99%" completion.

Topcat · Apr 22, 2011

Thruxton, great use of space mate!

stonewellmark · Apr 22, 2011

Thruxton, if thats a Metal Lathe then PLEASE move the grinders AWAY from it. The grinding dust WILL damage it. If not, the hell with it I hate working with wood....lol

Mark

Thruxton · Apr 22, 2011

stonewellmark said:
Thruxton, if thats a Metal Lathe then PLEASE move the grinders AWAY from it. The grinding dust WILL damage it. If not, the hell with it I hate working with wood....lol

Mark

Indeed it is, a Myford Super 7 from the 50's! And I am VERY careful about exactly the problem you refer to- absolutely right. And a big problem with small shops isn't it? keeping all this stuff separate.

Thruxton · Apr 22, 2011

topcat said:
thruxton, great use of space mate!

tnx!

John in OH · Apr 22, 2011

Those carriage doors look great! The really give the garage a classic look.

What part of VA?

Thruxton · Apr 22, 2011

Thanks! Central VA, west of Charlottesville - and enjoying your posts as well!

Thruxton · Aug 25, 2011

Re: My 19 X 19 wood-metal-car shop redo- Update post Quake!

Sensationalist headline notwithstanding, I thought I would show what I've been up to with my redo. Right now about 6 weeks behind sched, but who cares, it's gettin' done!

As you can tell, I'm no pro mud guy, this part was "fun"- had to accommodate some gas lines and a vent pipe.

To put things in perspective, the wall in the first two pics is the fourth pic in my first post.

After I finish all the rock and mud, next up is electrics. You can see the subpanel in the last pic- way oversized but locally available. Without trying to start a discussion, I will wire it for 100A, but will possibly derate the breaker to 75A depending on inspection (100A subpanel on AL 2-2-2-2SER passed a few years ago, but things change!)Maybe a NEC revision will let me uprate it back, but in any case 75A is way enough- just thinking about the future.

Biggest job has been to get rid of stuff, as many posters have noted (I really understand "Grunge Garage"'s issues!).

And OTOH the greatest plus has been this board, from which I have used advice on:

Subpanel
Wall treatment
Lighting
Layout

and will use advice on:

Heating
Flooring
Lift

and much more. I owe!

Red Leader · Aug 25, 2011

NICE!!!! A regular-sized garage woodshop! This is a project after my own heart.

I love your choice of colors too! I'm going to be paying attention to your layout, as I have many of the same tools you do and will be leaving room to park a car as well.

:thumbup:

-Dave

Thruxton · Aug 26, 2011

Thanks for the compliments, your thread is one of my favorites- it's great stuff.

sachapan · Aug 26, 2011

Re: My 19 X 19 wood-metal-car shop redo- Update post Quake!

Thruxton said:
Sensationalist headline notwithstanding, I thought I would show what I've been up to with my redo. Right now about 6 weeks behind sched, but who cares, it's gettin' done!

<SNIP>

Love that workbench, beautiful wood and I think I see a slight slant in the tool tray on the back that I think looks great.

Thruxton · Dec 12, 2011

Re: My 19 X 19 wood-metal-car shop redo- some major milestones!

Well it's been almost a year of doing what I hoped would take 6 months, but that's life on the farm! I have however finally gotten to the point where the shop is again usable. I finished the walls and ceiling, repaired windows, and painted almost everything. I needed more drawer storage, and I wanted to get rid of the existing stands for my bench grinder and sander-grinder, so I bought a Craftsman roller base to put them on- two birds, one stone:

View media item 14037
This allows allows me to grind in the doorway and not worry about sparks. Here's a view of the other side:

View media item 14046

I finally got the 90A subpanel installed (using a lot of suggestions from the wiremen on this board). I bought a used 1 1/4 conduit bender- since nicknamed the Monster. What a hoot that thing is. I stuck in a piece of 1 1/4 EMT after marking it up, stood on the pedal and pulled on the handle, and NOTHING! I weigh 162, I think 250 would make this thing work. But I finally figured out a way, and made the offset and saddle bend I needed. The latter was the key to the whole project. Here's The Monster and my 2nd try at a saddle bend (the first is lost, unfortunately...)- it was OK, but not deep enough. Third try was the charm though.

View media item 14038
View media item 14040
Here's the panel roughed in (complete with dangling temp connection) and finished:

View media item 14041
View media item 14042
Here is what it looks like now looking in through the garage doors:

View media item 14043
View media item 14044
The mess in the corner is one of the two big remaining projects (the other is installing the conduit and wiring)- the table and shelves will become an enclosed cabinet, and the space over the filing cabinet will be shelves for magazines (limited space will limit the collection - FIFO).

And speaking of the doors, I got a souvenir during a visit to Germany this fall (it is a Porsche garage, after all!):

View media item 14045
The most exciting thing, other than just getting to work on my car without rolling around in the gravel driveway, is it looks like a lift is in the near future! Space limits my options to a scissors lift, and I am looking at Bendpak, Mohawk, and Atlas (in order of pref, so far). I'll update this thread then! And once again, thanks to all for all the suggestions and input, this would not have gone so well without it.

Jack Olsen · Dec 12, 2011

That looks great! What a huge difference finished walls make.

fergus · Dec 12, 2011

Nice. Now THAT is a transformation. Not to mention 10 pounds in a 5 pound bag.

tinbender 66 · Dec 12, 2011

I think in garagedom six months equals a year. Or so. You've made that space look way bigger than it is. Awesome.

Thruxton · Dec 12, 2011

I love 10# in a 5# bag, fergus! And yep, time in the garage does undergo strange transformations, Paul.

And Jack, many thanks for the kind comments and encouragement. I think I may have already mentioned it was a post about your shop on Rennlist that brought me here, and ultimately lead to me getting into this project.

If I don't get to say it before the 25th, a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all you guys!!

Thruxton · Dec 14, 2011

My contrib to the vintage tool collectors

I'm not a vintage tool collector, but I have a power drill that belonged to my Dad- I have kept it for over 50 years (he bought it new in the early 50's). It is only a 3/8 but I could easily put a 1/2 chuck on it. This thing has enough power to twist your arm out of joint if it gets hung- it damn near threw me off a stepladder last summer when I was working on the main barn. I love this thing! And it is unusual: Thor tools were made by the Independent Pneumatic Tool Company which was bought by Stewart-Warner. It all ended up in a very interesting law suit (worth googling if you are interested in such things). If you look closely you will see something interesting on the name plate. The motor is rated "D.C. or A.C. of 60 Cycles or Less".

View media item 14074
View media item 14075
View media item 14076

Thruxton · Jan 20, 2012

Re: My 19 X 19 wood-metal-car shop redo- Finally!

Well, it's been a year this month, and although there is a lot left to do (complete wiring- that's next, then install the heater and in the summer do the floor, plus whatever else I think up) I can now use the shop for what I designed it for! It has been a great week getting to work on the car on a clean floor, under a roof, and not worrying about the weather.

The first time I rolled it in it was a very tight fit, but I moved a few things, and modified my workbench. It was 2 feet wide, but skinnying it down 2 3/4 made a huge difference:

View media item 15644You can see Lucy looking critically at the unnecessary projection here. You can also see I need to put on a new bench top.

And just a detail- the Craftsman workbench base was OK but not sturdy enough for the mill-drill I put on it, but 2x4's fit right in the legs- easy reinforcement.

View media item 15645
And with this done, voila the result!

View media item 17812

-Brent- · Jan 20, 2012

Excellent! I am impressed with the results; really nice work.

Thruxton · Feb 16, 2012

Re: My 19 X 19 wood-metal-car shop redo - wiring circuits begins!

Now for some fun!

View media item 16678
The tool tray on the back of the workbench was perfect for holding the wire spools.

View media item 16679
A lot o' pullin later (I know, you pros did 2.3 miles of it yesterday- big deal for me though). You can see that 3/4 EMT is almost maxed out with 9 10AWG's. (Don't you like those bends?). The solo box bottom left is a temp. And GFCI breakers on the 120V circuits instead of GFCI outlets. (I know, they aren't marked yet.)

View media item 16680
The all-weather box is for the welder - lot of potential for crud and wasp intrusion, this should keep things clean.

View media item 16682
I will never use these again, I will never use these again, I will... What a pain. I think I cold have come up with a layout that didn't require them, in retrospect. The next run sure won't use them.

View media item 16683
I'll put pics up of the next run, hopefully done this weekend.

Zeppe807 · Feb 21, 2012

Its coming along very nicely! Step by step.

Joe Zeppe

robarosa · Feb 21, 2012

Nice working garage. Good to see a vision take shape.

brian518 · Apr 11, 2012

What a great project. I am particularly interested in your Carriage type doors. Looks like you just sandwiched the plywood between your 1X6 trim. One of the concerns I've seen people talk about in building this type of door is the potential for sagging. That ain't happening here. Hope you don't mind me stealing your idea. Thanks for a great series of pictures and ideas.
Are you by chance a member of the Kawasaki forum too? Your handle seems familiar.

Thruxton · Jul 18, 2012

Re: My 19 X 19 wood-metal-car shop redo- Major Milestones July 2012!

The Major Milestone I have reached is that everything I needed to do to make the shop functional is working!

My dust collection system is in, it's the Rockler Woodworking "Slinky" you see attached to the left behind the scroll saw. It is piped to the collector in an attached shed. You can see the On-Off pushbutton switch to the right of the panel. I love this thing.

View media item 21931
Compressed air hookup is complete. From my little (and ancient- gotta replace this thing one of these days) Craftsman, it is hooked through a short pigtail to 28 feet of 3/4 black pipe, then in the pic below you can see the long flexible hose to the reel above. Really convenient, used the suggestions here to mount it next to the door. It's a 3/8 by 50, so reaches anywhere in the shop or parking area outside. And I know the moisture trap is cheesy. another replacement needed. (The regulator though is a 50+ year old Binks, my dad's, it will never leave.)

View media item 21932
And at last! I originally planned on a MaxJax but it simply would not fit. But I am very please with this unit. My 928 is a front engine/transaxle car so I have ample working room underneath. When it (the car) is a little cleaner I will post pics here and on RL showing exactly what it looks like. And future plans in include recessing it in the floor. Sometime...

View media item 21933
In use with my wife's Civic in the air

View media item 21934:

So these are my major milestones, still have heat, floor, a closet/cabinet, but it is fully functional now, and it is a pleasure to work in!

fergus · Jul 18, 2012

Awesome! Got all the major stuff in there! That lift is awesome too...its perfect for a smaller garage. I was just looking at one like that last week.

richtersrodz · Jul 18, 2012

Great looking garage... and doors look awsome!

My 19 X 19 wood-metal-car shop redo

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Super Moderator

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

Super Moderator

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member