My trusty Lincoln 225 gets a restoration

gahrajmahal · Mar 1, 2011

It started out as a "Test Panel" for a custom paint job I was going to do to my car. I thought I'd freshen up a few neglected items in the shop.

WHen I opened up the welder so I could repaint the housing in my new custom car colors, I got a surprise.

The heat had dried out the wiring and the insulation had cracked off.

Well, I sanded and primed the welder case the same as the car and learned a lot about my paint sequence and the ultimate direction I would go with the paint job. The Lincoln was now lookin sharp, but I left it in pieces as I finished up the car. Old man winter blew in and the welder was in pieces.

http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu96/gahrajmahal/2010027.jpg[/IM
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[IMG]http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu96/gahrajmahal/2010030.jpg

gahrajmahal · Mar 1, 2011

I had marked the posts and wires before I disassembled it, but enough time had passed I was wanting a little reassurance about the re-wire job. Looking on the web, and the Lincoln Electric website I was unable to find a wiring diagram for then old welder. I thought it was glued to the underside of the welder (which it was) but I could not get myself to go out in that cold garage to find out.

gahrajmahal · Mar 1, 2011

So, I tell ya, I was surprised to see the diagram showing 60 amp fuses on the power supply. All the relevant posts show 50 amps, and that is what I have.

It also did not jive with the skimpy 14 gauge wiring leading from the off/on switch to the transformer. Those were suffering from age and heat also (did I say I purchased this around 1976?)

I had an old set of jumper cable wires I had saved, around 10 gauge I estimate, so I cut off a section and crimped on some terminals.

TheGrooveking · Mar 1, 2011

Be careful, and I may be overly cautious here but confirm the voltage rating of the wire insulation on those jumper cables.

TheGrooveking

gahrajmahal · Mar 1, 2011

I drilled some holes through the tabs because the original wires were soldered. I dug out a Range plug I had squirreled away ( finally my hoarding pays off). This is rated for 50 amps at 220 volts. I then had to buy a matching receptical ay the big box for $9.00 . I have a 25 foot extension cord that came from a scrapped milling machine. It is also 10 gauge. I had to tin the ends with solder as the new receptical uses a screw to capture the wires. I was trying to figure out for certain which lug was the ground, when I realized the phase leg screws are gold and the ground lug is silver. Duhh!

So, next I connect the new range cord but put the ground to the chassis of the transformer. Originally it was grounded through the sheet metal case.

I buttoned it all back up and...

Makin' sparks once again!

KEH · Mar 1, 2011

Looking nice. I have one about the same age.

KEH

JC23 · Mar 1, 2011

Lookin' good! Didja call Lincoln to get a new scale sticker or didja save the old one? (I never saw the painted front.)

And, of course, I have to ask if you're gonna put any other paint on that box? Ya know, like flames, pinstriping and all that fun stuff!

5lima30 · Mar 1, 2011

Can't beat those ole Lincolns! Mine is about a 1982 model. Best $120.00 I ever spent. Nice paint job, it ought to last another 30-40 years. LOL.

rwhite692 · Mar 1, 2011

Nice Job! That is one lucky buzz box, to have been the recipient of so much TLC!

gahrajmahal · Mar 1, 2011

Hey Mr. Groove Thing, well you got my curiosity up about that voltage rating thing, so I had to go back out to the garage and look at the leftover cable. Not marked, dangit! So, in the pursuit of safety, I Googled it. Here is the first hit.

http://www.amercable.com/doc/catalogs/industrial/37-221.pdf

Basically it says "DANGER DANGER Will Robinson!"

So, I guess I'm not done yet! So, boys and girls. Make sure you use wire of a known gauge and voltage rating on your desire projects. Did I mention it is still cold out in the garage?

JC23, You and your cohorts with your can challenge makes me want to get my brushes out and give it a try again. Noo wait, I have to rewire the welder. Again!

The welder front is on the table shot next to the back panel with the gold fade down the middle. It is Murano Red with house of color candy burgundy fades around the tomb stone edge. There is red pearl dry flake mixed in the clear.

TheGrooveking · Mar 1, 2011

Also 10 ga. the good stuff like THHN is only rated for 30 amps, so you may want to upgrade to 6 ga. to cover the whole range of power needs that monster can use.

TheGrooveking

brownbagg · Mar 1, 2011

I had the ac 225 and sold it to my boss and bought the ac-dc 225. I will never weld ac again, dc is so nice

John in OH · Mar 1, 2011

It looks as if your time spent refurbishing this old Lincoln is time well spent. I think we all would like to see a good photo or two of the final result!

JC23 · Mar 1, 2011

Well, after you finish pimping out yer box, how 'bout painting up a shop clock?
That's what we're doing now and you've got time to join in.

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92787

And we're inviting anybody who wants to get their paint on!

jwh · Mar 1, 2011

gahrajmahal said:
I drilled some holes through the tabs because the original wires were soldered. I dug out a Range plug I had squirreled away ( finally my hoarding pays off). This is rated for 50 amps at 220 volts. I then had to buy a matching receptical ay the big box for $9.00 . I have a 25 foot extension cord that came from a scrapped milling machine. It is also 10 gauge. I had to tin the ends with solder as the new receptical uses a screw to capture the wires. I was trying to figure out for certain which lug was the ground, when I realized the phase leg screws are gold and the ground lug is silver. Duhh! QUOTE]

Check to make sure that the mfg. recommends this - they may not because it may cause oxidation / change expansion rates (like hooking copper and aluminum wire together.)

It's looking real nice!

Mr.N · Mar 1, 2011

Very nice!

I started a cart for my 225 AC/DC... but it also got too cold. :lol_hitti

gahrajmahal · Mar 2, 2011

JWH, If you know specifically this is a no-no I can change this out also. I guess the alternative would be to strip the stranded ends, then crimp barrel ends on the wires to allow the proper connection under the screw.

TheGrooveThing, you seem to be on top of the wire spec thing. I have an associates in Mechanical Engineering, and back in the day I did a lot of electrical design, prototyping, and actual wiring. I always had electrical engineers available to double check my designs. The thing that throws me is the original 14 ga. Wires that fed the transformer from the switch. They are marked 600 volts, and the insulation is two kinds, with the outer layer that clear stiff covering, just like you would use in your house if you were running single conductor in conduit. So why your recommendation of the 6 gauge? I thought I was ahead of the game going to 10 gauge. The upgrade I felt would make up for the crimp connections and the bolts at the transformer. I guess it's not really a transformer although it looks like one.

We all need to learn from these posts, and the lack of information when I was looking is why I decided to do this one.

Thanks for everyones input.

lametec · Mar 2, 2011

There's no need for 6 gauge wire. Your jumper cables will do just fine, and that goes for the insulation too.

THHN is rated for use in residential/industrial applications. Inside your welder is neither of these locations.

Wires are temperature rated based on being in conduit, and runs of 100's of feet.

Your short run to the switch inside the welder won't cause any issues.

gahrajmahal · Mar 2, 2011

Hey lametec, what's your take on tinning the stranded wire under the screw terminals?

56nash · Mar 2, 2011

gahrajmahal said:
I guess it's not really a transformer although it looks like one.

We all need to learn from these posts, and the lack of information when I was looking is why I decided to do this one.

Thanks for everyones input.

Actually all a Lincoln 225 AC welder is essentially is a really big multi-tap secondary AC transformer. It takes 240V and reduces the voltage and ups the current significantly to provide a current for welding. I have seen some real cobbled together welders over the years that really are the same thing, just with home brew transformers.

56nash · Mar 2, 2011

By the way it is beautiful, but I don't think the paint and body work would improve my stick welding skills

A_Pmech · Mar 2, 2011

Those are good machines, nice to see one "renewed".

I've burned a lot of rod with mine.

:thumbup:

lametec · Mar 2, 2011

gahrajmahal said:
Hey lametec, what's your take on tinning the stranded wire under the screw terminals?

I don't see it causing any issues.

TheGrooveking · Mar 2, 2011

lametec said:
There's no need for 6 gauge wire. Your jumper cables will do just fine, and that goes for the insulation too.

THHN is rated for use in residential/industrial applications. Inside your welder is neither of these locations.

Wires are temperature rated based on being in conduit, and runs of 100's of feet.

Your short run to the switch inside the welder won't cause any issues.

How did you determine that the insulation on the jumper cable is adequate for the temperatures generated / voltage used in this circuit?

On the 10 ga 25' long extension cord you are saying he doesn't need 6 gauge? Are you mixing up the two issues? The 25' 10ga extension cord is not free air, it is in a SO configuration.

TheGrooveking

gahrajmahal · Mar 3, 2011

TheGrooveKing, you can see the wire that is my extension cord in the photo with the range cord. It is 10/4 rated at 600 volts. I had cut off a section to use as the power cord. I was suprised to see I had used a 20amp plug and receptical for all those years. Ha ha. As I said earlier The extension cord originally came off a milling machine, as my first engineering job was for a machine tool refitter. We stripped off all the hydraulic drives and replaced them with CNC motors and computers. This was back in the early 80's.
When I go to the web and use the wire gauge calculator
http://www.csgnetwork.com/wiresizecalc.html
I enter 12.5 ft length and 60 amps, and it tells me I can use 14 ga for that. Is that solid wire? Or is there no difference between stranded and solid. That would be my guess.
Appreciate your comments! And others too.

TAftw · Mar 3, 2011

That looks great, I was thinking of doing the same to mine and also my MM 35.

Where did you get the sticker on the front?

lametec · Mar 3, 2011

TheGrooveking said:
How did you determine that the insulation on the jumper cable is adequate for the temperatures generated / voltage used in this circuit?

Because we're dealing with 240V. Good luck finding wires with insulation rated at less than 240V. The jumper cables have thick insulation to deal with the rough environment they're exposed to. Add to that, they will be used in a location where no person will handle them while under power, so no chance of shock.

On the 10 ga 25' long extension cord you are saying he doesn't need 6 gauge? Are you mixing up the two issues? The 25' 10ga extension cord is not free air, it is in a SO configuration.

Not sure where I commented on anything regarding a 10 ga extension cord, but since you bring it up, the 10 ga cord will be fine as well. This is a welder circuit, normal amp ratings do not apply. With a duty cycle of 20% like the Lincoln tombstone has, you can multiply its max current draw (50A) by 0.45 to get its effective current. This gives you 22.5A, which is well within grasp of a 10 ga wire.

lametec · Mar 3, 2011

gahrajmahal said:
When I go to the web and use the wire gauge calculator
http://www.csgnetwork.com/wiresizecalc.html
I enter 12.5 ft length and 60 amps, and it tells me I can use 14 ga for that. Is that solid wire? Or is there no difference between stranded and solid.

That calculator is bases its calculation on voltage drop. Do not use it to figure out what size wire you need to use to wire your house. For example, input a 20' length of wire at 25A, and it'll tell you to use 14 ga. This is not thick enough wire for a conventional (i.e., not moto, welder or other derated load) 25A circuit, you would in fact have to use 10 ga wire.

Here's a page listing ampacity for cables according to the NEC, which is what applies to your house wiring. Linky!

GDA · Mar 3, 2011

Cool restoration and glad to see it back in action again. Your efforts were rewarded.

chief ben · Mar 3, 2011

I have that same welder, I have had it about 20 years and still works fine,
I put a 110 volt hour timer on the top of mine so I could know about how many hrs I put on a job, I never used it Dumb Idea, :lol_hitti

My switch started getting hard to turn off and I was thinking I was going to have to buy a new switch, But when I got it out all it needed was a cleaning and a little greas, and it works fine now,
If you get down this way I will let you paint my welder,
Because yours Looks Good, Nice Job, The Chief

930dreamer · Mar 3, 2011

Nice job on the rebuild.

TheGrooveking · Mar 3, 2011

Refer to page to for NEC wire ampacity ratings.

http://ecatalog.squared.com/pubs/Circuit%20Protection/Miniature%20Circuit%20Breakers/QO-QOB%20Circuit%20Breakers/0600DB0103.pdf

TheGrooveking

TheGrooveking · Mar 3, 2011

lametec said:
Because we're dealing with 240V. Good luck finding wires with insulation rated at less than 240V. The jumper cables have thick insulation to deal with the rough environment they're exposed to. Add to that, they will be used in a location where no person will handle them while under power, so no chance of shock. It is not an issue if people will be handling the wires it is a matter of electrical properties, remember you have two conductors that are running next to each other and they are different phases, if the insulation breaks down you have a dead short between them.Don't confuse insulation thickness with its dielectric properties of insulating.

Not sure where I commented on anything regarding a 10 ga extension cord, but since you bring it up, the 10 ga cord will be fine as well. This is a welder circuit, normal amp ratings do not apply. With a duty cycle of 20% like the Lincoln tombstone has, you can multiply its max current draw (50A) by 0.45 to get its effective current. This gives you 22.5A, which is well within grasp of a 10 ga wire.Duty cycle doesn't apply to wire conductor sizing, it applies to the transformers capabiltiy to handle the heat generated by its operation and its ability to cool. When that welder is running full bore it is drawing its full input amperage.

TheGrooveking

beggers · Mar 3, 2011

Nice job!, I did the same thing just two weeks ago, but I added a 25’ extension cord hard wired in to be able to move around my garage freely. I picked up the wire at Menards and added a new plug. Then I fabricated a 16gage box to the back to keep all the wires in an organized manner and out of the way. This makes it much nicer to just roll out the welder and put it to work without the hassle of a limited cord.

lametec · Mar 3, 2011

TheGrooveking said:
remember you have two conductors that are running next to each other

Actually, they are not. If you look at the pictures there's plenty space between the two wires. But again, good luck finding a wire with insulation rating less than 240V.

Duty cycle doesn't apply to wire conductor sizing

Huh? Duty cycle certainly applies to conductor sizing. Look up NEC art. 630.

c_mccann · Mar 3, 2011

beautiful job.. Now I am thinking of doing mine. Sheesh, all the fun!

PCO6 · Mar 3, 2011

Beggers - That's a great idea for storing the cables. I bought a new tombstone a few months ago and will soon be building a cart for it. I will also be stealing your storage idea. :thumbup:

MoonRise · Mar 3, 2011

beggers,

Nice idea and job on the 'box'.

re: duty-cycle Yeah, it -does- apply to the wires (internal, external, extension cord, supply cord, the wires in the wall from the circuit breaker to the receptacle, and the welding cables as well). Voltage drop concerns also apply to all of those wires as well.

A 10 AWG copper supply/extension cord 25 ft long is just fine for that welder. Because of the duty cycle. Heck, you 'up-sized' the cord from the original factory 'shorty' cord! You are fine on the ampacity AND the voltage-drop. No worries there.

gahrajmahal · Mar 3, 2011

Man oh man, this thread just keeps getting better and better. Thanks for all the clarifications on the electrical aspect of this. Any of us would be pissed if we burned the house down if we wired anything incorrectly.

After seeing Beggars awesome rebuild of his tombstone I may eliminate the range plug and just wire direct to the extension cord too. I have been trying to think of a good way to store the cables and his solution is perfect! That will solve two problems for me. The extension cord is always getting tangled with the air hoses it hangs with. I also can get back inside the welder to replace the jumper cable wires. Not that I don't agree with lametec. I also believe I would never have a problem with them, at least not in my lifetime. But that being said, it is reassuring to see that voltage rating on the wire.

OK electrical gurus, should I go with my existing 10/4 cord or head off to the new Menards store for a fresh cable?

For all who like my paint job Thank You, you should see the car! But the whole exercise was orientated towards figuring out what color and finish the car should be. The welder rebuild came about once I opened her up.

Here is the car post on the HAMB, and I apologize to those who have seen it before.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=539437

Next I am going to take a few more photos and dip my toe into the helpful stick welding tips part of this discussion.

TheGrooveking · Mar 4, 2011

lametec said:
Actually, they are not. If you look at the pictures there's plenty space between the two wires. But again, good luck finding a wire with insulation rating less than 240V.

Huh? Duty cycle certainly applies to conductor sizing. Look up NEC art. 630.

I stand corrected, thank you for the information.

TheGrooveking

My trusty Lincoln 225 gets a restoration

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