220 to 430 Volt

[Hager Motorsports]

On a piece of property i own, There a orchard well grandfathered in on it and has a power pole and line running to it
Id like to run the wires under ground and PUD says the motor has to be able to run on 430 volt
The motor has 220/440 on it, I include pics
Looking to see if the motor will work or does it have to be upgraded to a newer one.
Thanks for any help!!

 

[mm08822]

What da PUD?

430v is at the low end of the very low end of the operating voltage range. Are you out in the middle of no where and the grid can just give you 430Vac?

If so, I would be concerned about motor inrush causing a large voltage drop during startup.

How frequently will this pump start?

Have you confirmed with your POCO that its lines can handle a 30 HP motor?
Will the neighbors be able to tolerate it?

A vfd could help the motor voltage issue and start-up dip, but it is pricey at 30 HP. VFD could also trip out on buss undervoltage if supply voltage gets too low

Is this a hobby or are you planning to make money ?

 

[MattT]

Your pictures appear to be two different 220/440V 3 phase motors which both have the 440V deliberately "crossed out" for some reason

And +1 on who dafuq are PUD? And why are they saying your motors need to be able to run on 430V

 

[Norcal]

430V is not a standard voltage, 480V is, 220/440V is a obsolete voltage, a newer one will be rated 230/460V, being a 40 HP I can see why they would require 480V, but if it has been sitting around it should be checked out by someone qualified to do so, sitting around any openings will be a invite to rodents & they do chew, a ag pump I worked on they chewed one of the motor leads clear through.

 

[Norcal]

PUD = Public Utility District.

 

[American Locomotive]

Looks like you have two motors, a 30 HP and a 40 HP? A 440v motor should be fine running on 430v. That is within tolerance. Although I'm confused why the voltage would have to change from them burying the wire? I'm also confused as to why your PUD offers 430v.

My only other concern is that the motors all say "1800 RPM". That's a speed that indicates you likely have synchronous motors. Sometimes synchronous motors have special controls to allow for starting, power factor control, etc...Some of that may need to be adjusted if your voltage will change.

Also, be careful if you have to change some wiring/taps on the motor(s)! Notice the "Asbestos Protected" on the data plate!!!!

 

[mm08822]

yeah , 2 motors - 1 - 30 HP and 1 - 40 Hp.

So OP, are you thinking of running both at same time?

Do you even have motor starters for these now?

How long and where have motors been stored?

 

[mm08822]

PUD = Public Utility District.

yup, googled it. washington state along columbia river, hydro power producer.

 

[metlmunchr]

Every motor I've ever run across that's had one of the voltages marked out has been thru a motor shop and rewound for a single voltage at some time in its life. No idea why. Maybe cheaper to rewind, but I don't know as any motor I've ever had rewound was put back in its original configuration.

Also noticed "auto start" on the nameplate. Does that mean its suitable for across the line starting as opposed to requiring a part winding starter which was common on larger hp motors for years?

 

[bjcouche]

The motor is likely only wound for 220V like metlmunchr said. Thus, assuming the pump house is currently powered from the power company, it's likely being supplied with 220V, or 240V, possibly 208V.... 220V hasn't been available for a long long, time, so I don't know if their step down transformers went from high voltage (KV) to 220, 240V or whatever.... The first step is to determine exactly what voltage the power company IS, or WILL BE, providing you. I'd try to reuse the existing motors if possible, and running an old 220V motor on 208, 220, 230, 240V, isn't a super huge issue. Likely though you will find that the motor isn't usable due to failed or chewed windings, bad bearings etc. It's worth investigating, but I wouldn't get your hopes up on them working, unless they were in use recently (taken care of and rebuilt in the last couple decades)
Wait... Was Washington state, even a state when this motor was manufactured?

 

[Bert_]

Likely the utility does not install new or upgrade existing 240v Delta services. So if you want to redo the service they will only provide 208 or 480v.

It's a shame, I really like 240v Delta for small 3 phase services. Like others have said those motors have probably been rewound and they just wondering them 230v only to save money.

 

[mm08822]

Could have been rewound for the 1 voltage as suggested.

Open the peckerheads and count number of wires.

 

[American Locomotive]

Also noticed "auto start" on the nameplate. Does that mean its suitable for across the line starting as opposed to requiring a part winding starter which was common on larger hp motors for years?

Look at the name-plate RPM. "1800" RPM exact is a synchronous speed. My bet is that these are synchronous motors. Synchronous motors were historically not capable of self-starting without some kind of external assistance. It would often be an external "starting" motor, or some kind of switching mechanism that would allow the rotor to slip like an induction motor before switching into a synchronous mode. Later developments allowed for a self-starting synchronous motor.

I think the OP really needs to call in a pro to see what he's got going on.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

While everyone is chimming in on the motor, id like to address potential issues with the pump.

I see its a turbine pump which means the pump is at the bottom of the well and motor sits on top on the well head.

This means there is column pipe with a drive shaft going down the center of it.

Is the pump currently at the bottom of the well?

And if so, when was it last serviced?

If its been a long while, you may need to have the column pipe pulled and put new pipe and shaft in because it could all be corrodded along with the bearings on the spider in each section.

If youre gonna go through all that trouble, might as well buy a 480v motor.

 

[Hager Motorsports]

WOW I will have to look thru all this!!
Thank You for the responses
PUD is Public Utilities Dept.
The Well is a orchard well that run almost all day. Not sure when it off other then winter monthes.
I was concerned why the 440 v was ***'d out also. Hense reaching out to those who know more then I
Sorry I have been super busy and slow to respond.

 

[Hager Motorsports]

While everyone is chimming in on the motor, id like to address potential issues with the pump.

I see its a turbine pump which means the pump is at the bottom of the well and motor sits on top on the well head.

This means there is column pipe with a drive shaft going down the center of it.

Is the pump currently at the bottom of the well?

And if so, when was it last serviced?

If its been a long while, you may need to have the column pipe pulled and put new pipe and shaft in because it could all be corrodded along with the bearings on the spider in each section.

If youre gonna go through all that trouble, might as well buy a 480v motor.

I dont give two sh$ts about these wells. I bought a piece of property with one of the wells the neighbor has the other.
Im try to get ride of the power pole on my property that services both wells.
The wells are orchard wells grandfathered on the property from 100 years ago and i just want to get rid of the pole and go underground
The lines come from miles away
My street has 430v three phase and that's where the new power will come from.
The only concern is that the pumps run like they do now, Im sure theres a huge liability if it Sh$ts out during a hot summer.

 

[Hager Motorsports]

I was told by a local guy that the motors are 20 grand
But if I could get one like this I'd just buy it and have it installed
But there's a huge difference in price????

https://www.electricmotorsforless.c...pU-YaR3vqUu7n2OAcTYl18WAelkpZqDAaAvZtEALw_wcB

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I was told by a local guy that the motors are 20 grand
But if I could get one like this I'd just buy it and have it installed
But there's a huge difference in price????

https://www.electricmotorsforless.c...pU-YaR3vqUu7n2OAcTYl18WAelkpZqDAaAvZtEALw_wcB

That motor wont run on 430v. Are you sure your PoCo is supplying 430v? 460v was the old voltage for 440v rated motors. Nowadays, motors are rated 230/460 for 240 or 480v supply.

Most pocos will not install 240v 4-wire or 480v 3-wire delta for new services. So you would get 480y/277 4-wire wye service.

The motor you have is a 912 frame and the frame spec in the link is a 324TP.

You Need to make sure the frame matches. Also, need to make sure the shaft will match the existing driveline.

You will most likely need a new motor starter since the motor you have currently is 220/230v. Also, need to verify if you can use an across the line starter or will need a soft/part winding starter. This will depend on the size of service the poco provides you.

 

[Hager Motorsports]

That motor wont run on 430v. Are you sure your PoCo is supplying 430v? 460v was the old voltage for 440v rated motors. Nowadays, motors are rated 230/460 for 240 or 480v supply.

Most pocos will not install 240v delta for new services. So you would get 480v.

The motor you have is a 912 frame and the frame spec in the link is a 324TP.

You Need to make sure the frame matches. Also, need to make sure the shaft will match the existing driveline.

You will most likely need a new motor starter since the motor you have currently is 220/230v. Also, need to verify if you can use an across the line starter or will need a soft/part winding starter. This will depend on the size of service the poco provides you.

Thank You!
wyliesdiesels You are right
"you will need to switch to our new voltage which is 277/480"
I can see this is way over my head and i should be looking for a local professional.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Thank You!
wyliesdiesels You are right
"you will need to switch to our new voltage which is 277/480"
I can see this is way over my head and i should be looking for a local professional.

yes thats a 480Y/277v service. Most PoCos dont do delta 240v or 480v service anymore.

And i doubt they will size the transformer for across the line starting on that motor.

So you will probably need a dual contactor starter setup to do a partial winding start.

Definitely look for a local licensed pump contractor or electrician.