Adding 240v to Attached Garage

[damon18]

Want to add at least one 240v 30amp outlet for an air compressor in my attached garage. Would be nice to have at least one 120v 20amp as well, maybe more.

Attached is a basic plan of the house, the red outline is the garage and the red spot on the opposite wall is where the exterior mounted main panel is located.

The panel and the desired 240 location are on walls about 55 feet apart.

The attic is wide open all the way from one side to the other.

House was built in the late 80's and the main panel is a split-panel setup and I've verified that there is room for an additional double pole 60amp breaker to feed a garage subpanel if I went that way.

The main thing I don't get is how the 6 or 8 gauge wires physically get from the exterior box into the attic and over to the outside wall of the garage. Inside the attic there is an existing line of 1x6 boards nailed to the joists pretty much from one side of the house to the other.

How to get from the box into the attic? Straight up via conduit through the soffit? Or into the brick wall and up into the attic via the studs?

I need to do this as low cost as possible, ending up with at least the one 240v outlet.

 

[BillK]

The way it looks they would have to go in through the one knockout and conduit where all of the other wires go through. Not sure if there is enough room or not ? You would have to determine that. Otherwise if there is another knockout at the bottom you could put another piece of pipe through the wall and connect it through that. Hard to tell by your picture and also would need to know what is on the inside of the wall.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Whats the HP rating on the comp?

If more than 3HP, you would need to hardwire it and put a disconnect on the wall if you dont go with a subpanel in the garage.

What brand of panel is that? Looks like the label says murray but i see what looks like GE breakers along with Bryant and a few other brands. Some of those breakers do not belon in there and should be swapped out for the correct breakers.

theres room for 2 more double pole breakers up top

 

[dcg9381]

IF you're going to run 50-60A out of that panel and need at least one 240V and some other "options" in the garage, I'd do it in 6ga copper and terminate it to an "RV pedestal" type subpanel, which has 3 outlets (50/240, 30/120, 20/120 GFCI) on it and includes the breakers. Look up: Siemens TL137US Talon
I've used these a bunch, love them - they appear to be under $150 right now.

They're a full sub-panel and have additional room for 4 breakers on top of the circuits and outlets that I mentioned.


How do you power it from the main? Conduit would be my first bet, go up through the soffit. Attach the conduit to the existing brick.

 

[damon18]

The way it looks they would have to go in through the one knockout and conduit where all of the other wires go through. Not sure if there is enough room or not ? You would have to determine that. Otherwise if there is another knockout at the bottom you could put another piece of pipe through the wall and connect it through that. Hard to tell by your picture and also would need to know what is on the inside of the wall.

The big hole in the back bottom of the panel where all the circuit wires go into the wall is crammed full. There are multiple knock-outs at the bottom like the one being used for the A/C power. I was thinking a cover/hose like the one over the A/C power could be run up and through the soffit like the coax for cable. Or maybe through the wood trim above the brick?

The other side of that wall is the kitchen counter and sink.

 

[damon18]

Whats the HP rating on the comp?

If more than 3HP, you would need to hardwire it and put a disconnect on the wall if you dont go with a subpanel in the garage.

The one I have now is an older 11 gallon 2hp that doesn't run very well on my existing 120 outlet, draws too much to restart reliably because that outlet is shared with bedrooms and is too far and too light wire from the panel.

If I had 240 I'd covert it to run on that until I get a bigger one, don't think I'd ever get anything with 3HP, probably just a 30 gallon 2HP.

What brand of panel is that? Looks like the label says murray but i see what looks like GE breakers along with Bryant and a few other brands. Some of those breakers do not belon in there and should be swapped out for the correct breakers.

I don't know much about panels or breakers but do they have to be the same brand? I thought as long as they were the right type and specs..? Here is the sheet on the panel lid.

 

[damon18]

IF you're going to run 50-60A out of that panel and need at least one 240V and some other "options" in the garage, I'd do it in 6ga copper and terminate it to an "RV pedestal" type subpanel, which has 3 outlets (50/240, 30/120, 20/120 GFCI) on it and includes the breakers. Look up: Siemens TL137US Talon
I've used these a bunch, love them - they appear to be under $150 right now.

They're a full sub-panel and have additional room for 4 breakers on top of the circuits and outlets that I mentioned.

How do you power it from the main? Conduit would be my first bet, go up through the soffit. Attach the conduit to the existing brick.

That's a pretty cool device, would give me everything I really need in the garage, found this on https://www.amazon.com/Siemens-TL137US-Temporary-Receptacle-Installed/dp/B00A8FQUYW/

It shows "Surface or pole mount", do they make this type box in a flush mount version? Couldn't find one, just some mentions of workarounds for mounting this one into a wall.

 

[teamextreme]

It's a cool device with a very specific purpose of providing power and outlets in an outdoor environment for RV use. None of which you need. You can pick up a main breaker panel that will do everything you need with more circuits and ampacity for a fraction of that. It's also meant for surface mounting, outdoors. If you're mounting in-wall, between studs (I don't recall you mentioning how you're mounting the sub) this won't really work very well for that.
A quick Amazon search gave me this one, which looks pretty close to what I installed in my shop
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005GLD8IO/?tag=atomicindus08-20

As far as getting wire out of your main panel, I would run out the side with an LB and run conduit up to the soffit and into the attic with another LB. Getting access to the soffit area from the attic is near impossible, so I would run a cable assembly of some type, (NMb aka Romex) sleeved through the conduit and fished into the attic area from outside so you don't have to reach down to the soffit eave. Either that or you can fish flex or sealtite into the attic and convert to NMb from a j-box in the attic at a place you have better access.

 

[dcg9381]

It shows "Surface or pole mount", do they make this type box in a flush mount version? Couldn't find one, just some mentions of workarounds for mounting this one into a wall.

Probably not, because it's exterior rated.
The cover essentially comes up and pivots on a hinge at the top - it is "surface mount" - I'm not sure you can recess mount it at all due to the hinge, but I can check next time I'm out at the shop if it's meaningful.

You can pick up a main breaker panel that will do everything you need with more circuits and ampacity for a fraction of that.

If you need a sub-panel, a sub-panel is better and cheaper.
However, if you factor in the cost of a 50A socket, a 30A socket, a 20A GFCI socket, 3 associated breakers, 3 gauges of wire, I think you're in for over $145. Wire the 4 wires in this thing and you've got the 3 power outlets that you need immediately.

But I'm biased. I have 3 of these boxes in my shop at various locations (including exterior). That's 9 different sockets, 3 locations to run a welder, and easily enough power for 6 RVs.... For under $450.

I agree with teamextreme on running romex in that conduit - easier to deal with once you're in the house.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

......I don't know much about panels or breakers but do they have to be the same brand? I thought as long as they were the right type and specs..? Here is the sheet on the panel lid.

They need to be listed and labeled for use in the panel. With the exception of classified breakers, yes the brand will be the same.

This means reading the breaker panel label to see whats listed for the panel. If thats a murray panel, then only murray breakers of the proper model should be in there.

 

[damon18]

Still wanting to add the subpanel to get better power to the garage.

Biggest expense, (besides the electrician to wire it) is the aprox. 70 feet of 6/3 romex. I've been watching varies places after looking at an ebay seller who was selling cutoffs in 5 foot increments for a good per foot price ended up ordering the 70ft of 6/3 today. The roll was priced at $122 but I got a 10% coupon so it was $109.80 with free shipping. ($1.57 per ft.) I thought that was the best deal I was going to find for Southwire Romex® Brand SIMpull® NM-B cable.

Now I have to accumulate the rest of the items needed. Anyone want to help me shop? My power needs are modest, have a 27 gallon Craftsman I'd like to convert to 240 and possibility of a 240 heater and/or AC in the future.

Would like to convert all the 120 outlets to circuits from the new subpanel and add some new ones at 48" high for convenience. The existing outlets (shown n attachment) on the sides of the garage are low like indoor outlets, the one at the top of the diagram is at bench level and I'd like to add more there too.

I've got an Amazon list going where I've been accumulating the items needs, I like the load panel kits, one of the ones in my list has a 30amp 240 and two single pole 20amp breakers included.

What am I missing that will be needed?

Link to list https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/F6Y61PPRYBMT?ref_=wl_share

 

[Bert_]

Probably not, because it's exterior rated.
The cover essentially comes up and pivots on a hinge at the top - it is "surface mount" - I'm not sure you can recess mount it at all due to the hinge, but I can check next time I'm out at the shop if it's meaningful.





If you need a sub-panel, a sub-panel is better and cheaper.
However, if you factor in the cost of a 50A socket, a 30A socket, a 20A GFCI socket, 3 associated breakers, 3 gauges of wire, I think you're in for over $145. Wire the 4 wires in this thing and you've got the 3 power outlets that you need immediately.

But I'm biased. I have 3 of these boxes in my shop at various locations (including exterior). That's 9 different sockets, 3 locations to run a welder, and easily enough power for 6 RVs.... For under $450.

I agree with teamextreme on running romex in that conduit - easier to deal with once you're in the house.

The RV box just isn't helpful. It comes with a 30A 120v outlet with is no use in a shop and the 50A is four wire when all welders want three. Not to mention you don't have any extra spaces for expansion.

Go buy a minimum of a 12 space panel and wire the outlets you need.

Instead of 6-3 nm check out 4-3 SER. It's aluminum cable sort of like Romex that you should be able to get for under a dollar a foot.

 

[damon18]

Instead of 6-3 nm check out 4-3 SER. It's aluminum cable sort of like Romex that you should be able to get for under a dollar a foot.

The one thing I've already settled is the wire, since I've already ordered the 6/3 Romex.

Any suggestions for or warnings for the rest of the items on the list?

https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/F6Y61PPRYBMT?ref_=wl_share

 

[Norcal]

All the installed breakers appear to be OK for that panel, OEM Murray, and ITE now Siemens, and Bryant BR which is now Eaton BR, (Zinsco II) are all listed as OK, I would use a Murray since the ITE replacement (Siemens) is the same breaker under differences branding.

 

[teamextreme]

Now I have to accumulate the rest of the items needed. Anyone want to help me shop? [/URL]

Sure, just shoot me over your credit card #

 

[damon18]

Sure, just shoot me over your credit card #

To clarify, I was looking for opinions on the items in the Amazon list. To find out if anyone has better/cheaper options to suggest.


https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/F6Y61PPRYBMT?ref_=wl_share

Once the subpanel is in, I'll need a 240 outlet for the compressor (will only draw about 8 amps on 240) and about 8 new 120 outlets on two circuits.