Adding a 230V circuit to a full box...DIY?

[mjozefow]

I need 230V in the garage to run some stuff I just bought. The electrician cant get here til next weeks. I'm wondering if there is anything so hard about what he is going to do.

I need to add mini breakers to free up some room and then add a 230V 50A circuit. The run to the outlet will be ~5ft.

The box is a Siemens 100A , house was built in 1991.

I have run lights, added outlets, etc, but never added a circuit. I'm told it isn't hard. Opinions?

Oh, and the electrician wants $175 to do it.

 

[A29]

I hooked up 230v in my garage. Not hard at all but I had some empty spaces for the breaker.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

Not sure why you would not do it yourself ? You do have enough power left for the 50 extra amps you want to pull ? I'm guessing the answer to that is "technically, no", if you have to put mini breakers in, to add the 50a 220 volt. "Practically" if you do it, be sure to not be running your other higher amp appliances at the same time.

Just drop power to the panel when you changing out your breakers, and wire away. I don't know what a Siemens panel looks like in comparison to a Square D, Ive done several panel change outs and wired a couple shops/garages, without incident. The work involved in what your talking about is running the wire or pipe to wherever you want the receptacle, the box work itself is a joke.

Id take it on without a thought,,... Im sure some others will chime in with some Caveats...

 

[mjozefow]

Hmm, it looks like there is an unused 30A 220 for an electric dryer. I'm going to put in a junction box and use this.

The only issue is this wire is a Red-White-Black-Bare Copper and the wire lead off the motor is a Green/White/Black.

My understanding is that white is a common and for this application can be grounded. I have to look into it more though.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Is your panel full? If so, look carefully at the information inside the door. It will tell you how many breakers the panel is designed to accommodate. Yours might hold only 20 standard 1" wide breakers, but might be designed to accommodate as many as 30 total breakers (known as a 20/30 panel), by use of the "half width", "duplex", "twin" or whatever you wish to call them breakers. Two separate 1/2" wide breakers riveted together and with separate handles. Its also quite possible that your panel is certified only for standard 1" wide breakers and cannot have any more than a full set of them. This is all based on a bunch of factors you do not see, such as total volume (cubic inches) of the "box" and the design of the buss bars, etc. Breakers do generate heat and this has to be taken into consideration.

If the panel can have more breakers, and you can utilize the dual breakers to gain space, go for it, but don't put yourself at risk by overfilling the panel if you are not allowed to.

Charles

 

[mjozefow]

So how about using the dryer circuit since I have a as dryer?

I just need to figure out the four wire to three wire issue.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

Hmm, it looks like there is an unused 30A 220 for an electric dryer. I'm going to put in a junction box and use this.

The only issue is this wire is a Red-White-Black-Bare Copper and the wire lead off the motor is a Green/White/Black.

My understanding is that white is a common.

In regards 110/120 volt, you say "common" I think a better term is "neutral", but in 220v, or in your case, the white coming out of the motor, will get power, or be hot, not neutral. I know, that sounds confusing and conflicting, and it is!

Yeah, the 220 volts is "2" 110s put together, so your going to take the two hots from your panel, which should be the black and the red, you will not using the white, and the bare copper should go to your green on the motor (also called ground).

Allow for someone else to chime in and concur that I got this right (I don't do this for a living, only for myself), you also should have a meter going to confirm that the supply wire, that the black and red are hot (110v each) and the white is neutral and cold (and you wont be using the white)

black on motor to black
white on motor to red
green on motor to bare copper
white wire from panel is not used or capped.

 

[mjozefow]

In regards 110/120 volt, you say "common" I think a better term is "neutral", but in 220v, or in your case, the white coming out of the motor, will get power, or be hot, not neutral. I know, that sounds confusing and conflicting, and it is!

Yeah, the 220 volts is "2" 110s put together, so your going to take the two hots from your panel, which should be the black and the red, you will not using the white, and the bare copper should go to your green on the motor (also called ground).

Allow for someone else to chime in and concur that I got this right (I don't do this for a living, only for myself), you also should have a meter going to confirm that the supply wire, that the black and red are hot (110v each) and the white is neutral and cold (and you wont be using the white)

So black to black, red to white and green to bare copper.

Ya I was referring to the 220 dryer wire. It is more confusing to type it than to look at it.

You are confirming what I have read.

Is there an issue with just bringing a three wire 220 outlet to the garage from a junction box off of the dryer line? (basically wire my two hots and put green to ground) The line arches over the garage anyway, and the laundry room is right next to the garage...

 

[mjozefow]

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

Ya I was referring to the 220 dryer wire. It is more confusing to type it than to look at it.

You are confirming what I have read.

Is there an issue with just bringing a three wire 220 outlet to the garage from a junction box off of the dryer line? (basically wire my two hots and put green to ground) The line arches over the garage anyway, and the laundry room is right next to the garage...

No, doesnt sound like it as long as you use at least 12ga wire, or larger, kind of a hard call to make without looking at it.

What are you going to run ? and how many amps is it supposed to pull ?

 

[mjozefow]

Compressor drawing 15A @ 220. Maybe a welder too. The wire up there is probably 10ga. Maybe 8ga. I'm going to measure, buy my materials, and report back.

Thanks again!

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

Compressor drawing 15A @ 220. Maybe a welder too. The wire up there is probably 10ga. Maybe 8ga. I'm going to measure, buy my materials, and report back.

Thanks again!

Sounds like you got a handle on it, just check it when its done, and you have filled the compressor from empty, check the connections, check the breaker, stuff will heat up if its got and inadequate connection. Or at least thats what I do when ever I get done with a "loaded" electrical circuit.

 

[mjozefow]

Hooked up and working! Thanks for the help.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

Hooked up and working! Thanks for the help.

Great, Your welcome, its all good on the GJ !