Allen brand drill presses

[stevedas]

I'm brand new here- first day, all because of having just purchased a pair of Allen drill presses. i love the old stuff- it was built well and made simple. so i picked up the set and table today from an online seller. this unit is heavy, which i love. We ended up removing the two drill presses from the table to make hauling easier.

So, here's where i need help, and i knew this prior to making the purchase. The motors are 3 phase and my farm shop has single phase. Converting shop to 3 ph would not be cost effective at all. i need help in finding the proper single phase motors for these units. Is Allen still in business? Is it operating under a new name? Or, how do i locate the proper motor configuration? I don't even know the make of the motors. They only have wiring schematic labels on them for wiring in a series or parallel. And the motors don't appear to be the most standard type, as there's no plate with mounting holes, and appear to be simply attached to the drill press via a collar on the shaft. There's an access hole to get at this collar. ( i did not take much time to inspect it closely after unloading.)

There's two Allen-Bradley switch boxes on the unit and the seller told me, on a side note, that these vintage boxes/switches are worth several hundred dollars each?!?! If that's the case, and depending on how my electrician installs new switches, they may be on the market if anyone's interested. Is it possible that there's a connection between the Allen brand displayed on the drill press frame and the Allen-Bradley brand boxes?

if anyone can assist me in locating sources for the single phase motors i'm in search of i will deeply appreciate it!
Steve

 

[paulsomlo]

Given the mounting configuration for the motors, I would be more inclined to keep them and either use two separate VFD's or a rotary phase converter to run both. You could even run two static converters, they're cheap. All of this is somewhat dependent on the motor - can you take a picture of the nameplate and post it here? Also, three phase motors will run smoother than single phase.

Regarding the Allen Bradley boxes - I would be surprised if they brought much, I think the seller is mistaken.

 

[paulsomlo]

I just blew up the picture of the motor, not much info visible there. You'll need to find out what voltage the seller was supplying to these.

 

[aquinob]

Wow. One of those images looks exactly like one I found over on vintage machinery.



Your best bet is to use a VFD for each motor. Doubtful those motors are over a horse each so any vfd rated for 1hp should work. One of your pictures has a motor plate that should have the voltage(s) needed. In my experience you dont want to put a switch between the VFD and the motor itself, they should be hardwired. You could use one of the controllers to provide power to the VFD itself, that is how I have mine wired up.

 

[paulsomlo]

FYI - http://www.chasgallen.com/divisions/allen-drill/

 

[blazemaster83]

How many wires come out of the motor?

 

[Beerhippie]

The cost of a Variable Frequency Drive, while not trivial, is well worth the cost to get your 3-phase running on single phase!

Plus, you'll get fine speed control AND reversibility!

Why would you change out the Allen-Bradley switches? You can just as easily wire a 3-phase switch for single phase (just use the number of contacts you need).

Can you post a picture of the motor data plates?

 

[stevedas]

first of all, thanks for all the quick responses and suggestions. i was finally able to uncover the data plates on the motors, as they had been covered with a thick coat(s) of paint. Here is the info. i have next to no knowledge with VFD's or rotary phase converters, so this is somewhat challenging for me to not only understand but it also sounds a little spendy. I will definitely need to get my local electrician involved.
Given the motors being older Westinghouse models, and that i now have a style #, is it unlikely there are any current single-phase motors available with which to replace them? Perhaps the application is so outdated the motors were discontinued. Is it even worth contacting a motor supplier to inquire this?
there are 3 wires coming out of the motors. and previous owner was running motors on 240V service.

 

[paulsomlo]

From an electrical standpoint, replacing that motor would be easy - from a mechanical standpoint, maybe not so. It's mounted by the end bell, but it doesn't look like a standard face mount.

If this were me, I would either buy two VFD's or one rotary phase converter. Like Beerhippie said, with the VFD you'll get variable speed, which means less belt changes.

Regarding spendy - once you get an electrician involved, you'll know what "spendy" is. And they may not know industrial electrics - the VFD's can run off single phase 110v. Here's one that would probably get the job done: https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...sWLQ7UYcLFfzPDpCAJdFFIzMMRlioaexoCBw4QAvD_BwE

 

[Beerhippie]

From an electrical standpoint, replacing that motor would be easy - from a mechanical standpoint, maybe not so. It's mounted by the end bell, but it doesn't look like a standard face mount.

If this were me, I would either buy two VFD's or one rotary phase converter. Like Beerhippie said, with the VFD you'll get variable speed, which means less belt changes.

Regarding spendy - once you get an electrician involved, you'll know what "spendy" is. And they may not know industrial electrics - the VFD's can run off single phase 110v. Here's one that would probably get the job done: https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...sWLQ7UYcLFfzPDpCAJdFFIzMMRlioaexoCBw4QAvD_BwE

That does require a 220/230 VAC input. I'm not sure if VFDs can up-convert the voltage like that, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I'd go over to the VFD thread and find one folks seem to like (that way, you have someone to ask when you need it) and then look for that make and model on the 'Bay.

If you're not utterly terrified of simple wiring, I'm sure we have enough folks with enough experience to walk you through the process. Different VFDs have different parameters that need to be set, so, again, I'd get one that folks here are familiar with. My experience has largely been with older makes and models that no longer exist, but I have installed several newer makes. Teco by Westinghouse is what we currently use in the brewery, as it's what we got last time the power company blew all of ours up.

 

[paulsomlo]

That does require a 220/230 VAC input. I'm not sure if VFDs can up-convert the voltage like that, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I'd go over to the VFD thread and find one folks seem to like (that way, you have someone to ask when you need it) and then look for that make and model on the 'Bay.

You're right, I chose the wrong one - here's one that will convert 110V single phase to 220V 3 phase: https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...sWLQ7UYcLFfzPDpCAJdFFIzMMRlioaexoCBw4QAvD_BwE

At small horsepower, 110V to 220V is possible - above 1hp or so, the drives require 220V input. Another solid choice would be Teco Westinghouse.

 

[Beerhippie]

You're right, I chose the wrong one - here's one that will convert 110V single phase to 220V 3 phase: https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...sWLQ7UYcLFfzPDpCAJdFFIzMMRlioaexoCBw4QAvD_BwE

At small horsepower, 110V to 220V is possible - above 1hp or so, the drives require 220V input. Another solid choice would be Teco Westinghouse.

Wonders never cease....