Flipper, I'm moving this from PM to the thread so others can chime in or perhaps glean some bits of knowledge from it.
It depends on the doors you use: the tilt-up frames can be spaced MAX of 16' apart. I would go 14' max personally, and standard is 10'. The wider you go, the heavier duty (bigger) the floor joists, purlins, girts, etc must be. Example: 10' spacing = 2x6 purlins and 14' spacing = 2x8 purlins (per SocketSystems dude).
You can use a pile of 8, 9 (10' frame spacing) or 10 foot wide doors (10'+ frame spacing). It is when you want the double wide doors (16' to 20'+) that the frames get in the way.
Personally I chose to purchase 2 extra tilting post-base sets for 2 12' posts that will ONLY hold up the steel header beam over the double wide garage door. I chose to do this for strength and to avoid custom fabrication.
Specifically, if I just bolted the steel header beam to the two posts on either side of the wide door, then:
(1) Those posts are then doing double duty - they already hold up their own part of the building and second floor, and
(2) Those posts already have their own steel beams attached for floor support - I need the steel header beam to be at nearly the same height as the floor beams - This means the steel beam hangars need to hold up 2 beams in 2 directions (custom parts).
I don't weld, so I just figured that the small extra expense of two extra 6x6 posts and 2 extra tilt up bases would be $ well spent to avoid those issues - and probably be overkill on strength. The extra 6x6 posts will be *right next* to the original 6x6 posts and will be bolted together before it is all done (there will technically be a vertical 2x6 between them that the beam hangar for the floor beam will rest on - see the close-up of the beam hangars on the website: they have extra 2x6's on each side of the 6x6 to help carry the beam's load via a little 'shoe" flange on the hangar.
Clear as Mud!!
I expect that I will need a boom truck or crane or extending arm forklift machine to lift all the frames upright. Looks like the sidewalls will be over 12' to a max of 13' (gotta allow space for the steel angles to slip over the top of the posts = you can't have the steel floor beams at the very top of the posts.)
The goofball frame may get it's tall and short side posts installed and then the gambrel lifted up as a unit and wiggled into place - not optimal, but do-able for the one frame. Alternatively, I can do a full tip up frame there and then (brace and) cut out the one leg and retrofit the wide door steel beam. Probably a worse idea as this requires an extra 2x6 to cut up and requires the holes in the slab for the tip up frame (in the middle of the garage door opening). I'll likely just try to tilt (ahem, carefully) up on one leg (with the crane/lift device) and try not to die in the process.
Raise sequence = left to right
(1) end wall frame
(2) 10' intermediate frame
(3) 10' intermediate frame (left of wide door)
(4) Extra Post for Wide Door (left)
(5) Extra Post for Wide Door (right)
(6) Steel beam for wide door
(7) Bastardized intermediate frame (10' spacing, too)
(8) 10' intermediate frame (right of wide door)
(9) 14' endwall frame
(10) left to right steel beams for floors/endwalls
All frames will have steel beams - even the right endwall which supports no floor load (for now).
I figger if I put the top of the floor beams at 12' that puts their bottoms at 10' 8". W16 beams are 16" tall.
If I allow 8" below that to attach the *very short* cut-off post to the supporting steel beam below it (probably use it's own tip up socket since it's left over from where it's not used below anyways), then I can put the steel wide door beam's top at 10' which leaves it's bottom at 9'. W12 beams are 12" tall.
Since I'm planning on 9' doors, I'll need to tweak this by an inch or two to get a wood board bolted to the bottom of the steel header beam to act as a garage door headerboard for the garage door to rest/seal against. This height change can likely come from the *very short* post (floors stay put), but I can make all the floor beams at 12'2" or 12'3" if needed to ge the extra height (floors raised slightly).
The top of the floor steel beams will be at 12'0" to 12'3". I need to make the 6x6 posts tall enough to bolt on the steel beam hangars and still have the Steel Sockets (for the roof) slid down on top of that. So, I expect the side posts to be about 13'0". I *think* the 6x6 posts go into the roof sockets about 10".
I can't tell any of this for sure until the pile of sockets arrive (probably next week) and I can measure them for actual lengths and sizes. Jeez - I REALLY hope they are quality parts, mitred accurately and welded properly with good fit and finish.
This still leaves foundations unresolved.
I have high hopes that some of these extra-secret details will be revealed in the rare and mysterious "Field Manual" when it arrives with the sockets.
I have no idea how to deal with the bottom edge of the walls. I expect I'll need to install anchor bolts in the edge of the slab and bolt on 'regular' 2x6 boards there as if I was going to build load-bearing walls on them. This gives something to nail the lower edge of the OSB walls onto and helps seal out water and the elements (I'm guessing on that part).
I think I want to brick up the bottom 4 feet or so of the walls for aesthetics, but I don't know how the bottom row gets started. It probably doesn't just sit on the ground. I guess that the slab needs to be poured out one brick width outside past the walls. The bricks then sit on that extra ledge. I wonder if that ledge then needs some sort of anchor bolts of it's own. I have no idea. After that, I still have no idea how the brick wall actually attaches to the building - maybe it doesn't - maybe it freestands *very close* to the walls.
I suspect these things are common knowledge in the industry, but it is supremenly annoying that I can't seem to find these seemingly simple bits of knowledge.
The answer usually I get is:
"Just tell the contractor what you want and he'll build it for you."
What I hear is:
"Just tell he contractor what you believe is everything to get what you want. But it isn't enough to get it done right. Oh, and bend over because you've just given him the green light to ream you. P.S. Since you didn't initially specify things that you should have (but didn't know ahead of time to specify), you can have them done as fixes afterwards when they'll look like **** and will cost, you guessed it, LOTS EXTRA! Wheeee!!!!!!"
Sigh
PS: You say you'll have several of the "in-between" frames. You need to realize that if you have a second floor, those frames will still need to carry Steel (or wood) floor beams. This means no car lifts or slope-of-the-ceiling garage doors unless the second floor is Waaay up there.
You'll get three, (probably two double wide and a single) garage doors squeezed into a 50' wall, so you're not talking a huge deal. Unless you're going double wide doors on both the front and back walls. I would be hesitant to do that...leaving an entire frame sitting up on steel header boards, front and back...unless you have no second floor over that area. Even then, an engineer to consult with might be a judicious expense.
If you're thinking about something like 2x 10' doors and 2x 12' doors, then make 2x 11.5' bays and 2x 13.5' bays. No crazy frames to deal with
I almost went ahead and did the 3 9' wide doors instead of the single 9' and single 18' because of the design issues involved. However, I want what I want and I'm gonna build what I want; it's my freaking money and my freaking property; everyone else can FOAD if they don't like it. ***not directed at anyone in particular***
Having said that, I recognize the possibility that 3 9' garage doors and no goofball tilt-up frames might be the only way to do it within my skillset. The price of the extra beams and hardware is more than offset by the cost of the extra garage door and opener, so there's not really any extra $ involved.
Flipper_1938 said:
Any thoughts on how you are going to raise the "in-btween" frames that are going to rest on the steel headers? Are you goint to have to hoist them into place rather than tilting them up?
I am real curious how that works.
My garage is going to have several of those. I am planning a 30x50 with garage doors just about the entire length of one of the 50' sides.
monkeyplasm said:
I'll keep ya posted when the toys arrive!
Flipper_1938 said:
I live up I-65 from you in Franklin, KY.
I am also considering the socket system and want to put big doors on the side walls. I want to see how it all goes together.
I'll volunteer free labor just to check it out.
-Richard
