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Another subpanel question

sdstriper

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Nov 10, 2009
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South Dakota
He all, noob here... I searched for this and my question is unanswered. Can someone explain backfeeding to me? I have seen this terminology used in a couple posts here. I am planning a subpanel to a detached garage. 100 amp subpanel, approximately 25' underground feeder, cable size undetermined. I am not sure on cable sizing and type... Appreciate any feedback!

TIA, Ross
 
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Number21

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Oct 26, 2009
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Backfeeding is when you use the first two breaker holes as the input for your panel and main shut off - the power flows "backwards" through the breaker into the main bus as opposed to how they normally work. But they work the same in both directions.
 
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sdstriper

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Nov 10, 2009
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South Dakota
Interesting... So I would eliminate a second 100 amp feeder breaker for the subpanel feeder. Am I following you correctly?

I wonder if this flys with code, local bs...
 

Big N8

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Sep 5, 2007
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**** Rapids MN
Your question is to use the back feed for the new panel? Or that you have a back fed main and are going to run a 100amp sub off that.

I would recommend to upgrade to a 200amp service and you can then just run a 100amp breaker out to the garage. Use this link to determine the size of wire you need. link
 
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sdstriper

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Nov 10, 2009
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South Dakota
Your question is to use the back feed for the new panel?link

Good question... Is that what Number21 is referring to?

Upgrading to a 200amp service and adding a subpanel as well as everything it takes to do it right so I have sufficient power for a space heater or an air compressor is not going to be an option.

I appreciate the input but let's not over complicate this...

Adding a subpanel for 240v off the existing service is the focus. 50-60 amps is more than plenty for this garage (12x24) and a 200 amp service is overkill for this 900 sq. ft. home.
 
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Falcon67

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Merkel, TX
Options from my head FWIW:
1) "double tap" the meter if allowed by your utility/local jurisdiction - run that feed to a 60A disconnect, then to the shop panel. Double tap means run another set of wires from the same lugs under the meter that feed the house panel. Main issue here if allowed is that you have to pull the meter and the utility will have to grant permission (or come and do it). Also, the lugs in the meter box will have a torque spec in in/lbs and you'll want to make sure you follow that. This is how my shop gets it's power.
2) breaker in existing panel, run to shop panel. Main breaker optional in shop panel, good for local power shutoff mainly. I use a 125A panel in my shop with no main. The disconnect/breaker next to the house panel handles that and I'm fused at 60A.
3) if existing house panel has "extension lugs" or some such, meaning a way to carry the feed out of the panel to another (would likely look like the lugs for the feed from the meter) then tap off there to a disconnect, then to the shop.

For the distance stated with a 60A disconnect, I think #4 will be the wire size. Double check that for sure. I use #4 for my overhead, then about 24' in a 1 1/2" conduit. #2 is not that much more $ for a run of that length and you'd have extra capacity, which never hurts.

I'll be staying in a holiday Inn Express this Saturday, so I must know what I'm talkin' about. :bounce:

200 amp service is overkill for a 900 sq. ft. home.
We're at 1600 sq/ft and the 100A house service is plenty fine for us. However, we use gas heat in the house.
 
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sdstriper

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South Dakota
Unlimited Tap is what your referring to. You have to have a 325amp meter socket, if the power company and local code allow it. I like the idea but we have a 200 amp meter socket.

A double pole breaker in the main service (50-60amp) with a feeder cable in a conduit out to the garage subpanel with an additional main breaker as a shutoff (as required by local here) is what I want to do.
 
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Number21

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In your situation I don't think you really need the "backfeed" breaker, it's more of a convenience, unless required by local code. Just use a 50/60A breaker in your main box...you can add the backfeed to the new box if you want, but you don't have to.
 

Nostraquedeo

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Oct 23, 2009
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I don't think "Backfeeding" applies to what you are wanting to do. Sounds like you just need to go with a 50-60 amp breaker in your existing panel and feed your new sub-panel. Good luck.
 

Charles (in GA)

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This is correct. And I still do not understand what backfeeding actually is... :headscrat

You install a subpanel (or even a small panel as a main panel). It has lugs on the top of the buss bars, no main breaker, and no place or way to install one at the lugs on top (typical of many smaller panels). You want, possibly need, a "main" breaker to turn the panel on and off, and protect it. So..... you install a double pole (240v) breaker in the top two spots on the top right or top left of the panel. You also have purchased and install with it, the appropriate clip or screw that is found on the accessory racks above the breakers in the electrical aisle. The clip is required by the code when a standard breaker is used as a main breaker for a panel. It locks the breaker in place to prevent its easy removal. To power the panel, you connect the two hot wires coming from wherever (meter, main panel, wherever) to the two terminals on this large breaker (generally in the 60 to 100 amp range, depending on the panel rating and size of the supply cable).

Powering this panel, but pushing the power "backwards" thru this "main" breaker is called backfeeding.

Charles
 

IanF

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Nov 15, 2006
Messages
180
Location
Croydon, PA
"Backfeeding" basically refers to re-routing how the power is fed to the various panels. Say you wanted to upgrade your site service to 200A, you could install a new 200A panel in your garage, with a new meter, then "backfeed" the original panel and remove the existing meter (assuming its a lower amperage panel). This is often done when doing large addition/expansions to a house where additional square footage is being added to the living space. Typically not done when running power to a garage sub panel.

Depending on where you live, a new sub-panel may need to be installed by a licensed electrician and signed off by a code inspector.
 
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