Anyone still use fluorescent shoplights?

[mikedodge]

We have fluorescent lights still throughout our basement. My shop has mostly 8' fluorescent fixtures with 4' T8s mixed in as the ballasts fail. Mainly because I have a huge pile of fixtures and bulbs.

 

[cybrdyke]

It would make sense to have rapid start ballasts everywhere except for cold tempurature applications since instant start ballasts cut down on the life of the lamp by a lot.

Not entirely accurate. But since they're both dinosaur technology, there's really no point getting into it.

 

[ng3689]

Not entirely accurate. But since they're both dinosaur technology, there's really no point getting into it.

What's not entirely accurate?

 

[nadogail]

I replaced the F40-T12 two tube shop lights with screw-in LED modules from Amazon. I had to terminate the feeds to the shop lights in to single gang boxes with lamp sockets and then screwed in the modules like they were light bulbs.

Too bad these were not available when I first wired the shop.

 

[ng3689]

That's what happened to my garage but the oppsite, when we moved in there were two sockets (with cfl's) and they got replaced with Lithonia things (I should have told my dad to get some f40 tandem strips).

 

[larry_g]

I still have them. I also still have corded power tools and pneumatic ones as well. Just because some new technology comes along I do not believe in trashing the old stuff just for new stuff that will accomplish the same task. Now when some old tech fails I will replace it with new tech.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Steve W.]

When I was building my shop 7 years ago, the hospital where I was working was upgrading their lighting. I went back in on second shift (on my own time) and helped the electrician remove some two-tube 4-foot troffers. I ended up with sixteen fixtures, complete with two tubes each. They also gave me a box of 30 extra tubes that are NEW. Over the last 7 years, I have replaced two of the tubes and one ballast. That brings my total investment up to ... about $15.

Yeah, LEDs would be nicer, but what I have seems to work just fine.

.

 

[The Cobbler]

I was going to go with led when I built my garage about 6 yrs ago.
got a deal on brand new 2 lamp 4' t8's with lens covers . the plan was to put in led bypass tubes. building I used to work at replaced all their 4' t8 fixtyres with LED, they gave me a box of new tubes . when they start to go I will upgrade to led

 

[cybrdyke]

What's not entirely accurate?

What you said, that instant start ballasts cut down the life of the lamp alot. It's generally inaccurate. But, like I said, since they're both dinosaur products, it's kind of a moot point.
CD

 

[ng3689]

What you said, that instant start ballasts cut down the life of the lamp alot. It's generally inaccurate. But, like I said, since they're both dinosaur products, it's kind of a moot point.
CD

Well it depends on how many times you switch it but generally speaking yes they do cut down on the lamp life. Instead of preheating the filaments, it just instantly blasts ~600v through the lamp breaking the gas column and leads to sputtering of the electrodes.

 

[cybrdyke]

Well it depends on how many times you switch it but generally speaking yes they do cut down on the lamp life. Instead of preheating the filaments, it just instantly blasts ~600v through the lamp breaking the gas column and leads to sputtering of the electrodes.

Once instant start electronic ballasts were introduced, lamp manufacturers beefed up the filaments of their T8 lamps to mitigate the cold starting damage. Only if the lights are turned ON approximately 7 or more times per day, which is uncommon, will they show signs of hard starting. Less starts than that and the electronic operation of the lamp, which provides greatly reduced thermal cycles to the filament, is far superior to the 60 cycle operation of the rapid start operation. Not to mention that better control of frequency changes and surge suppression in the ballast are also helpful to lamp life. So, the statement that "instant start ballasts cut down on the life of lamps by alot" is just not accurate. There are instances...like those with lots and lots of on/off operations (think about a public restroom with motion sensors) where the statement would be true. But in general....not accurate.
And again.... what difference does it make? Rapid start is 99% gone and instant start is 70% gone, and dying out quickly.
CD

 

[u2slow]

I run mostly T8 4' fluorescent with instant start electronic ballasts. I like the light quality over the few LED strips I have. I also have a few old T12 fixtures that I phase out or reballast to T8 as they die.

Best part is the flourescent fixtures have either been free or severely discounted.

 

[MFortie]

I’m still using four lamp T8 fixtures in my shop...

 

[ng3689]

Once instant start electronic ballasts were introduced, lamp manufacturers beefed up the filaments of their T8 lamps to mitigate the cold starting damage. Only if the lights are turned ON approximately 7 or more times per day, which is uncommon, will they show signs of hard starting. Less starts than that and the electronic operation of the lamp, which provides greatly reduced thermal cycles to the filament, is far superior to the 60 cycle operation of the rapid start operation. Not to mention that better control of frequency changes and surge suppression in the ballast are also helpful to lamp life. So, the statement that "instant start ballasts cut down on the life of lamps by alot" is just not accurate. There are instances...like those with lots and lots of on/off operations (think about a public restroom with motion sensors) where the statement would be true. But in general....not accurate.
And again.... what difference does it make? Rapid start is 99% gone and instant start is 70% gone, and dying out quickly.
CD

I should have said in like those places with motion sensors instead of in general.

However in the point of safety (in tandem strips which are fairly common); On some IS ballasts, when the lamp goes eol it will sometimes crack at one end and the lamp falls (then everyone goes crazy and calls the EPA). On lead lag ballasts well the other lamp just doesn't do much however the lead lamp may be run cold cathode cutting down on it's life a crazy lot (though I do have a ballast that doesn't leave lead glowing anymore, it just cathode heads and dimly flickers like the lag lamp).

However you do have a point, people are switching to LED so I guess it doesn't really matter anymore.

The one good thing about LED retrofitting is that I can get fixtures for free. If it weren't for LED, I wouldn't have my shoplight, the light used in my shop, two various wrap arounds, an f20 undercabinet and a lot more stuff that's still in perfect condition.

 

[engineer2]

I have a few just to use up all my spare fluorescent tubes.

 

[Bert_]

Here's a couple than I use daily, first one above the kitchen sink and the others in my basement laundry area. I did have to put a ballast in one of the row mount fixtures shortly after I got them but the rest are still original.

 

[ng3689]

Those are some cool looking fixtures, is that a Westinghouse lamp in the f20 one?

 

[kbeefy]

We bought an old farm homestead and there are 4' florescent fixtures everywhere. I can see 7 from where I'm sitting in the den.
Kitchen, Living room, den, bathrooms, utility rooms, entryway, garage(s)...

I would like to find some nicer looking lights but haven't spent any time shopping.
I replaced the (inadequate) shop lights with some UFO LED fixtures and am pretty happy, need a few more.
I replaced the (inadequate) garage lights with some weird multi head LED fixtures, they work pretty well.

The entryway was a wiring disaster. Exposed romex through the garage wall and across the ceiling to surface mounted incandescent sockets. Switchable outlets screwed into the sockets with a pull chain. 4' Flourescent fixture hung on the ceiling nearby and plugged into the socket outlet. Sheesh. Replaced all of it (except the romex and surface mount sockets) with screw in motion sensing LED lights, much cleaner.

I'm holding on to all the fluorescent fixtures, I have a barn and 3 sheds that I'll put them in.

 

[pbon]

If the fluorescents work and you are happy with them, leave well enough alone. If buying fixtures today, I recommend LED. I don’t like mixing and matching, so as the old fluorescents fail and replacement bulbs and ballasts go up in price, consolidate the survivors and start converting rooms to LEDs.

We own a commercial building and got a utility rebate to convert old T10 to LED. We paid $4000 of the $25000 job (over 100 lights) and it was estimated we would save $400 per month in electricity and that was before rates went up due to the Russians invading Ukraine. No brainer, but if no rebate is available, run your numbers. There are plenty of retired guys here who salvage parts cheap to keep old stuff running and don’t care about modern technology. For them, paying for new lights does not make sense.

I bought a house 6 years ago and renovated the barn with all LED. High quality surface mount on the main floors and cheap linked hangers in the basement and attic.

 

[ng3689]

If the fluorescents work and you are happy with them, leave well enough alone. If buying fixtures today, I recommend LED. I don’t like mixing and matching, so as the old fluorescents fail and replacement bulbs and ballasts go up in price, consolidate the survivors and start converting rooms to LEDs.

We own a commercial building and got a utility rebate to convert old T10 to LED. We paid $4000 of the $25000 job (over 100 lights) and it was estimated we would save $400 per month in electricity and that was before rates went up due to the Russians invading Ukraine. No brainer, but if no rebate is available, run your numbers. There are plenty of retired guys here who salvage parts cheap to keep old stuff running and don’t care about modern technology. For them, paying for new lights does not make sense.

I bought a house 6 years ago and renovated the barn with all LED. High quality surface mount on the main floors and cheap linked hangers in the basement and attic.

Prices going up is definitive an issue however you can get a pack of two f40t12's for $13 which is decent.

Interesting how your building used T10, if there are any left over there would probably be people interested as T10's are pretty uncommon.

 

[Copymutt]

Have six 4 tube T8 units. Since I built it in 95 I have replaced maybe three tubes. Garage is heated so that makes a difference. During the day the garage has great natural light.

 

[Bert_]

Prices going up is definitive an issue however you can get a pack of two f40t12's for $13 which is decent.

Interesting how your building used T10, if there are any left over there would probably be people interested as T10's are pretty uncommon.

7.50/ea is priced pretty high! Was $2-3 a lamp not that long ago.

I would like to order a case of T10's. F40T10 that makes 3500 lumens, yes please. But they have always been quite a bit more money.

In a commercial setting with lights running 10-12 hours a day for 5-6 days a week the power use is a real consideration. In a home shop environment it really doesn't matter. The usage isn't anything significant.

 

[American Locomotive]

7.50/ea is priced pretty high! Was $2-3 a lamp not that long ago.

I would like to order a case of T10's. F40T10 that makes 3500 lumens, yes please. But they have always been quite a bit more money.

In a commercial setting with lights running 10-12 hours a day for 5-6 days a week the power use is a real consideration. In a home shop environment it really doesn't matter. The usage isn't anything significant.

Depends on how many lights you have and where you live. My shop has six 2x 75w F96T12 fixtures. Thats over a kW when factor in ballast losses. If I use my shop lights 10 hours a week, that'd be over $100 per year in electricity costs for me at my rates.

In my experience, a $15 40w LED fixture will generate about the same amount of usable light as one of the 8 ft fixtures. (Twice the lumens per watt, and almost all the light goes down while about half your light is lost in a traditional flourscent fixture)

That would pay for itself very quickly.

 

[ng3689]

Half of the light is lost in a traditional fixture? How does that work...