Arc fault receptacle

[green.bubbly]

Are arc fault receptacles different from GFCI receptacles? I was just reading that in some locations, bedrooms require AFCI protection???

 

[cowboyjosh]

Arc faults come in a breaker form only, not an outlet.

 

[green.bubbly]

Arc faults come in a breaker form only, not an outlet.

Thanks. That would explain why I was having trouble finding an arc fault receptacle. So does it serve a different function than a GFCI device?

Why would this type of breaker be required for bedroom circuits?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

An AFCI is supposed to detect sparking/arcing of the circuit from hot/neutral, hot/grd and even momentary inline sparking of the line. I'm not sure that this is more PFM than anything else, and the more I see of the National Fire Protection Assn, the more I realize that while they do a lot of good, they are also money driven. I am being flooded with brochures by them for $eminars that they produce on all kinds of $ubjects.

The requirement for AFCI and to some extent, tamper proof outlets, is more money driven than safety driven. Many locations adopted the 2011 code, which requires AFCI in all residential circuits (at $30+ dollars a circuit vs $3 or $4 a circuit for regular breakers) however certain locales do not require the AFCI.

Charles

 

[oleguy]

arc fault .as it pertains to bedrooms 210.12(b),is the same for all crc ckt requirements.it says arcfault ckt interupter listed to provide protection for entire ckt.a recp outlet can't do that.thats why you can't get one.code say's entire ckt,as in from breaker to end of ckt.

 

[green.bubbly]

Thanks for the information. I often wonder how much of the codes are more about money than safety.

Seems to me, if we had stove hood vents with a built in automatic fire extinguisher, we would protect a lot more lives and property than some of the safety gadgets that are currently required.

 

[Provincial]

If they hadn't approved "back-stabbed" recepticles and switches where you push the solid wire into the item and it is held by a spring, arc fault breakers wouldn't be necessary. As far as I'm concerned, Underwriter's Laboratories should be paying for all those arc fault breakers, since it was irresponsible for them to approve them in the first place.

 

[aandpdan]

Many locations adopted the 2011 code, which requires AFCI in all residential circuits (at $30+ dollars a circuit vs $3 or $4 a circuit for regular breakers) however certain locales do not require the AFCI.

AFCI's are not required on all residential circuits.

210.12 (b) dwelling units

All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sun rooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways , or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination-type installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.

 

[Norcal]

Areas of a residence that require GFCI protection, do not require AFCI's. AFCI receptacles have been designed but are not on the market.

 

[Provincial]

AFCI's are not required on all residential circuits.

210.12 (b) dwelling units

All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sun rooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways , or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination-type installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.

So other than the kitchen, garage and laundry, where would you not be required to put arc fault breakers? Pretty close to all if you ask me, since the places I mentioned require ground faults!

 

[Charles (in GA)]

AFCI's are not required on all residential circuits.

210.12 (b) dwelling units

All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sun rooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways , or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination-type installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.

Guess I wasn't clear, what you list is ALL 120v circuits except GFCI, and thats I intended to say. I'm not real sure why you cannot use a GFCI receptacle on a circuit protected by an AFCI, you probably could, but they do not require it.

Charles

 

[Norcal]

............................................................................................................................I'm not real sure why you cannot use a GFCI receptacle on a circuit protected by an AFCI.......................................................................................

Charles

You can if you wish, there is nothing prohibiting it.

 

[cowboyjosh]

I only install Square D QO series panels in my homes; AFCI's add up in cost real fast. I also now have a list of vacuums (all Dysons, Oreck hand held Canisters, some Eureka, some Hoover) that trip the AFCI's because of their piss poor, made in China motors that might arc just the slightest amount that causes the Arc Fault to trip.

Im guessing 85% of the code changes and requirement are the result of industry lobbyist pushing for their passing in the name of safety.

I look for dwellings in less then a decade to all be sprinklered, to all be required to have a generator backup for critical circuits, for MWBC to be done away with, and for a bubble to be built around the house so that the occupants are protected from the forces of the outside world.

 

[MrMark]

bathrooms don't require AFCI either and neither does the lighting circuit in the bathroom which does not have to be GFCI obviously. So it is not entirely accurate to just say AFCI is required where GFCI isn't. Same is true in the kitchen. Only the countertop receptacles are required to be GFCI, not all the other circuits in the kitchen. Thus, a good many circuits in the house are neither GFCI nor AFCI.

AFCI requirements are room specific. Kitchens, baths, garages and outdoors do not require AFCI under the 2008 code, at least.

Sprinklers are already required here.

Also, there are only limited and very expensive 2 pole breakers in AFCI from what I understand. Thus, MWBC should be very limited on new construction. Perhaps just a couple MWBC runs in the kitchen for the dishwasher/disposer and the 2 countertop receptacle circuits. That may be it on the MWBC for the house.