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Bed frames.

neonnblack

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I got a question about a bed frame. I have cut and welded bed frames alot, since i can get them for nearly nothing and they are plentiful. One thing i never did much was drilling into them, and im convinced they are made of undrillable material.

I can get about half way through a hole and then nothing, it stops dead in its tracks. I'm using cobalt bits(although no the highest quality, im only drilling maybe 10 1/4 holes) Is there a trick to doing this? i got two done with one bit then after that i couldnt get anymore all the way through, only half. I am using oil while drilling also.
 
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neonnblack

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well, I dont know what the drill runs at, just an older B&D corded drill. im not putting full force into it, but i can put enough to stop the drill. maybe half way away from stopping it. Chips, mostly. And if it makes a difference ive used 135 and 143 degree points, two flutes.
 

lilredex

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I drill those with regular HSS bits at the slowest drill press speed. You have to keep constant moderate/heavy pressure on them all the way through or they work harden. Have drilled lots of them and mostly dry. Drill spring leaves that way too!
 

srmofo

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Bed frames are finicky like that. I avoid drilling them whenever possible. Heating the area before drilling may help, but also may weaken the area.
 

Mavawreck

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I don't have a proper equation for drilling metal, but heavy pressure and lower speeds tend to work better in my experience. I try to make shavings which are long, unbroken spirals.

1226579089o2HpxB.jpg
 
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neonnblack

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Thanks alot guys, that fixed the issue. i went about half speed and more pressure got nice longer spiral swarf, and it cut through no problem. Irritates me i didnt really think about it, or asking before i screwed a 6 dollar drill bit lol.
 

Mavawreck

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Thanks alot guys, that fixed the issue. i went about half speed and more pressure got nice longer spiral swarf, and it cut through no problem. Irritates me i didnt really think about it, or asking before i screwed a 6 dollar drill bit lol.

I would never have known except I had several hundred holes to drill one day through 3/8" steel on a messed up solar panel racking system and only a few bits to do it with.
 

zkling

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Bed frames can be a real bear to fabricate with. Be careful using them for structural components. They usually vary in composition, but most are really brittle and have a high yield strength, similar to spring steel.

Here is a good page all about drilling speeds.

http://its.fvtc.edu/machshop1/drillpress/cutspeeds.htm

One of the biggest mistakes I see people make is that they back off when they hear chatter. Chatter is caused by a lack of feed pressure for a given RPM. So one needs to either increase feed pressure which is sometimes not possible on a non rigid setup, or decrease RPM. Usually decreasing RPM is advised, just be careful of going to slow. Coolant is always a welcome addition.

Don't buy a drill doctor, learn to sharpen bits free hand. You will feel much manlier for being able to do so!
 

garboui

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Bed frames can be a real bear to fabricate with. Be careful using them for structural components. They usually vary in composition, but most are really brittle and have a high yield strength, similar to spring steel.

The springier the bed frame the better ;)
 

5lima30

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I try not to drill them if I can help it. I have made a couple of firewood racks out of bedframes. They actually turned out pretty well and lot cheaper then angle steel!
 

tarbellb

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When drilling into steel that is thinner (>1/4") I usually go with a 1/8" HSS bit, then finish out the final hole diameter with a stepped bit. Way faster, plus is cheaper to break a 1/8" bit then a 3/8" bit.
Anybody else fall in love with quality (or even HF) stepped/ Uni bits? They are my go to bit in most thin metal work.
 

G1K

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I believe some bed frames are made from old rail - as in rail road rail. I remember watching a video about it a while back. I'll see if I can track it down.

Ryan

**Edit: http://www.jssteel.com/content/products

Jersey Shore Steel makes bed frames from rerolled rail.
 
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papabil

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When drilling into steel that is thinner (>1/4") I usually go with a 1/8" HSS bit, then finish out the final hole diameter with a stepped bit. Way faster, plus is cheaper to break a 1/8" bit then a 3/8" bit.
Anybody else fall in love with quality (or even HF) stepped/ Uni bits? They are my go to bit in most thin metal work.

X2 on hf stepped bits. bill
 
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sberry

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I really try to avoid those or use them where its obvious its bed frame. I ran into something a while back where it might have seemed like a good idea at the time but we wanted to run a few drillers thru it.
 

ilovevocs

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Don't buy a drill doctor, learn to sharpen bits free hand. You will feel much manlier for being able to do so!


Are you sharpening by hand using a grider and a jig or totally freehand. I have read countless publications that state freehand sharpening is not a practicle approach. To creat a bit that is symetrical a jig must be used. I have a guy that works in my shop that is in his 80's and he hand sharpens with out a jig all the time, he is not producing round holes with the bits, nor does he care as it is just for crude fab and machine mantainance. Not calling saying your wrong, just wondering if you have some insight that i do not on the subject.
 

metaleltr

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Are you sharpening by hand using a grider and a jig or totally freehand. I have read countless publications that state freehand sharpening is not a practicle approach. To creat a bit that is symetrical a jig must be used. I have a guy that works in my shop that is in his 80's and he hand sharpens with out a jig all the time, he is not producing round holes with the bits, nor does he care as it is just for crude fab and machine mantainance. Not calling saying your wrong, just wondering if you have some insight that i do not on the subject.

By using a gauge you can achieve decent accuracy in cutting edge length. Leading to round accurate holes.

grinding1.jpg


Notice the graduations on the angled part of this gauge.
 

Bib Overalls

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Bed frames are made to meet three parameters; cheap, light and strong. Cheap is paramount and usually achieved with low quality, recycled scrap. This material is sheared to length and holes are punched. The same length can be incredibly hard in some spots and soft it others.

It has always been that way. 60 years ago I built a go cart out of a bed frame. I did all the work with a hack saw and a hand powered carpenter's drill. The gentleman who welded it up told me bed frames were "made out of anything that a magnet would pick up and heat would melt." I've stayed away from using them in my projects ever since.
 
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neonnblack

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Like bed frames that I sleep on? What are we talking about here?

Surprised this thread has kept going. lol

And yes, like what you sleep on, cheap angle iron, though sometimes harder than diamonds it seems. Decent for quick things that arent meant to be a structural piece. (im using mine as the frame for a table thing.)
 

bsaint

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Wow who would have ever guessed. I need to modify the legs on mine so instead of wheels its just a leveling pad. My wife and I broke the plastic wheels off of ours a while ago. :D
 

zjrog

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I'm going to use some bedframes to build my welder cart with a cheapo no-name roller toolbox... I've used bedframes before, and NOW I know why I couldn't drill through them!
 
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zkling

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Are you sharpening by hand using a grider and a jig or totally freehand. I have read countless publications that state freehand sharpening is not a practicle approach. To creat a bit that is symetrical a jig must be used. I have a guy that works in my shop that is in his 80's and he hand sharpens with out a jig all the time, he is not producing round holes with the bits, nor does he care as it is just for crude fab and machine mantainance. Not calling saying your wrong, just wondering if you have some insight that i do not on the subject.


You need to find yo' self an old timer. :lol_hitti All joking aside. I learned machining and thus drill sharpening from a 89 year old retired master tool and die maker. He laughed at drill doctors, sharpening jigs and digital measuring equipment. Back in the day, a machinist was expected to know how to properly sharpen a drill bit by hand. Or at least so I am told.

It is one of those things that I could show you in person in 5 minutes, but take 5 pages to try and type out. This guy on youtube is a really good machine shop practice teacher (I think he is actually a retired teacher). He has a really good video on sharpening drill bits.

The key is to NOT twist the drill when sharpening it. That may sound counter intuitive when looking at the cutting edges, but a rocking motion is more appropriate. As others have mentioned purchase a nice drill sharpening gauge. Now when sharpening, what you really care about is symmetry of both cutting edges. It doesn't matter if the angle is 114°, 115°, 120° as long as they are the same. If one side is longer than the other, the drill will cut a larger hole. This can be used to your advantage on certain occasions.

Drill presses and the drilling process I think are the #1 misused and misunderstood machine tool out there. One might say that I am a drill press addict (owned over 6 at one time for various functions). I am far from an expert but I say this based on four common issues that I see.

1.) Lack of speed.
2.) Lack of feed.
3.) Thinking that drill bits produce a round hole
4.) Dull bit

First, SO many people think the solution to their drilling issue is to slow the drill bit down. If you start reading on fab forums across the web everyone thinks they need a 5RPM drill press to drill steel. :dunno: When we talk about cutting tools what you care about is SFPM of the cutting face. For general shop use a rough formula can be...

Steel RPM = (4*75)/(Dia of drill bit in inches)

Aluminum RPM = (4*200)/(Dia of drill bit in inches)

For example a 0.5" dia drill bit in steel SHOULD be running at ~600RPM
or in aluminum at ~1600 RPM!!!!

Now the second issue comes into play on non rigid drill presses and nervous operators. If a drill bit chatters it means that you are feeding too SLOW for a given RPM. This will actually destroy the drill bit as it is just rubbing on the work piece, and not cutting. But the problem is that people usually back off when they hear chatter, when instead they should push forward.

A drilling operation is not a precise process. No matter how expensive of a drill bit you have it will never produce a round hole. Hence the presence of reamers. Yes some are better than other, but no drilled hole has a high level of circularity.

Finally, I see so many folks use dull bits because :dunno: Most often people will just run out and purchase a new bit, instead of trying to sharpen the one they have. Now if it is less than 1/8" in diameter I usually just chuck it, because those small bits are so cheap in the bulk pack.

One last tip. Always center drill your parts when possible. A drill bit is not designed to center cut well. Unless you get into split point / web thinning sharpening, but we will leave that out for now.

Well enough of my rambling. Go fire up that grinder and sharpen your bits. When I was learning, my teacher stood next to me, as soon as I sharpened a bit, he flattened it on the other grinding wheel and I had to start again. Also make sure your grinding wheel is freshly dressed and true.

The clevleand twist drill company has or had a book out all about drill bit sharpening and geometry. I think it dates from the 1920's, but still a very good book. Let me see if I can find it electronically on my computer.
 
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