Crane crushes house while delivering pool

[pj_rage]

I've never operated a crane and I don't know the first thing about it.

But, can't an operator feel the rear of the crane getting a little light when it's getting ready to tip? Is it just too late for corrective action at that point? It just seems like even if you don't do any load calculations, AND the computer is malfunctioning, that there would be some kind of (physical) indication to the operator that the crane is nearing it's limit. Like, I imagine you're feeling some bouncing in the cab with that long of a lever arm and weight. As it nears the limit, wouldn't that feeling change in such a way that the cab is getting noticeably lighter and unstable? I dunno though, like I said, I've never operated a crane, I'm just guessing.

 

[justanengineer]

as a licensed and somewhat experienced crane operator (unfortunatley more familiar with modern cranes than older ones), a crane of that modern vintage should have shut itself down when it approached being overloaded. there is an ungodly number of failsafes built into modern cranes, and if you breathe the wrong way, it locks itself out. i am sure things could have been better planned/estimated, but there sure could have been a software malfunction. ours has them constantly, but they are more of an annoyance than a danger to anyone. i have hauled more than my fare share of cranes; old and new, and every single one of them was laden with electronics--either from the factory, or as a retrofit as an insurance requirement.

its amazing how all these internet-crane-operators can call it toally operator error, without ever operating one, or most likely even standing next to one.

The thing you forgot to mention about failsafes on cranes is that many of them can be easily, and in practice regularly are, overridden by the operator.

Regarding "internet-crane-operators," the largest crane I ever worked on was a 2000 ton Liebherr crawler. It had a rather ridiculous amount of electronics on it, but it also came with a rather large book of load tables which the operator knew almost by heart. Going another step further on operator error, cranes of any decent size usually have a single operator by company policy. I cant speak for a small mobile crane like the one that tipped, but companies usually restrict operating a large crane to one person to ensure that the operator in the cab knows his machine and what it can and cant do. Simply put, they dont trust millions of dollars in machine and more in liability to anyone who hasnt spent a lot of time in that specific seat. Plain and simple, there are multiple reasons why this should not have happened and an electronic failure is not one of them. If the electronics had gone haywire like Toyotas did last year, then maybe, but not in the case of not preventing him from overloading it.

 

[tomd]

OSHA will figure this one out.

 

[TheGrooveking]

I'm sure no matter how tight his sphincter became through that crash his boss will open it back up for him once he finds out about this crash. Remember always get a certificate of insurance made out to you for at least everything you own and that amount is covered in the single incident coverage also.

TheGrooveking

 

[BTC]

This site needs a Crane Operator sub-forum.

 

[Gary S]

OSHA will figure this one out.

They might. I heard a rumor that they actually figured something out once.

 

[Hotrodladycrusr]

I've heard companies won't run equipment on a driveway because depending on the machinery it can crack the asphalt. Don't know how true that is though.

Last Oct when they couldn't get the crane into my back yard for a LARGE tree removal they backed the crane up my driveway and halfway into my garage so they could get as close as possible to the tree. They assured me there wouldn't be any cracking of cement or damageat all. I took photos of everything before I allowed this and sure enough, no damage. They boomed? the LARGE tree parts over my house which was kinda scary but everything went well. The tree was 17 feet in diameter at the base and over 90 feet tall. Nasty cottonwood, glad its gone.

 

[Morrisman]

I did an offshore crane operators training course in the Gulf of Mexico a couple of years ago. Two days, three hours each day in the classroom, and we never actually went and looked at the ships crane, never operated it, or looked at slings, just talked and wrote and answered questions.....

But I was suddenly a certified US offshore crane operator and slinger, though to all intents and purposes I may have never driven a crane in my life. It was valid internationally too, well, anywhere international in US waters......

I did the same course again last year and this time we did a bunch of crane driving and instruction, a real training course. Turns out it was the same training guy from the previous course, or at least it had the same name on the certificate......

 

[Strouty]

I can't believe that an operator would be stupid enough to operate a crane without counterweights.

It is common to not use counterweights unless you are exceeding a certain load.

During the video, just before the crash, it sure sounds like alarms going off in the background.

I thought I heard them too.

as a licensed and somewhat experienced crane operator, a crane of that modern vintage should have shut itself down when it approached being overloaded.

In the video you can hear the hydraulics strain pretty good on one of the last adjustments he makes before the crane goes over.

I've never operated a crane and I don't know the first thing about it. But, can't an operator feel the rear of the crane getting a little light when it's getting ready to tip? Is it just too late for corrective action at that point?

Once he got light it was over, the speed to lower it down would have never been fast enough to recover.

The thing you forgot to mention about failsafes on cranes is that many of them can be easily, and in practice regularly are, overridden by the operator.

EXACTLY!

OSHA will figure this one out.

QUOTE=Gary S;1570749]I heard a rumor that they actually figured something out once.[/QUOTE]

That was disproved and verified by snopes!


I think the crane operator should have know the weight of the object, he probably relied on the computer to tell him it was OK. This is fine if you know the crane really well, that way when something is going wrong you know it instantly. When I heard the hydraulics load up, I thought it was going to go over at that point, instead the crane operator probably used the safety override to get just another inch. Judging by his response, I think he knew he shouldn't have done whatever he did. Too many people today can operate equipment, but not that many are really equipment operators. This holds true for a lot of industries. The other problem is the God complex, where they know nothing bad will happen. I hear people all the time saying things like the strap is rated for 2000 pounds, but it will handle 3000 pounds due to the safety factor. I don't operate that way and it really pisses off some people.

 

[JamieK]

How are they going to set the crane back down? Get a even larger crane to lift the end of the boom back up? I'd imagine cutting the straps holding the hot tub wouldn't go so well.

 

[danski0224]

It is common to not use counterweights unless you are exceeding a certain load.

Possibly, but I have never seen one of those small and common cranes operated without the counterweights.

Looks like a 25 ton... could be a 40. Not much physical difference between the two to the casual observer, and it's been a while for me.

With the new OSHA regulations governing crane signaling, someone is in trouble... in addition to losing the load.

 

[cheap bastard]

Our home is a modular construction. Five boxes plus some other stuff were all put up by the crane. There was only a spotter and an operator on the crane crew. The setting crew was much larger, of course. With supervision, there were at least four people tending that crane's requirements. Everyone was very careful and seemed profesional. In conversation with the spotter, I was told that the crane without counterweights could tip with nothing on the boom if it were extended straight back all the way. The cabin looked clean and simple inside. All the info must have been on the computer screen.

 

[W650Mike]

The signal gal was just too distracting.

 

[Jononon]

some zilch

American cranes don't have independent load moment indicators?

 

[PaulR]

I stayed at a Holiday in last night.




Definately software error.

 

[moonpool145]

My eyes are not as good as some of you but I could not tell for certain if the CW's were on or off though there certainly seemed to be a lot of air space where they should have been. It looks to be a Grove TMS (not sure of cap but guess 65 to 80 tons) The operator had alot of stick out with what I would guess is a decently heavy load. I expected to see the outriggers punch through the driveway with there being no cribbing under the plates.

Cause: OPERATOR ERROR - IDIOT

Why do I say that?

Exceeded allowable radius for load / CW (obvious)

Boom angle far too low - This would not contribute to tipping if he is inside his allowable radius (CW dependant) but can bend the boom. He should have put on the jib but thats alot of work (not really).

No cribbing - never trust your bearing surface unless you can verify it. one of the most common causes of crane accidents is unstable ground. ALWAYS put out cribbing or mats to spread the load.

Did not pre-lift - I always run out the boom, set the jib and check my position over the destination to insure reach, capacity and clearance issues. The operator clearly did not do this as he could be seen extending his last section to make the distance with the load hanging. There are some circumstances that prevent this such as low overhead but I could not see anything in the video.

Did not bring the load close to the ground -Whenever I am close to the limits and its possible (as it was here based on video) I bring the load to just above the ground. That way if you de-stabilize, the load only drops a foot or 2. He could have easily have done this after clearing the garage.

No tag lines on the load

Finally, to get this model of crane to extend out so far that it will tip you have to defeat the LMI. This takes a key (inserted and held "ON", or wired "ON" if your really desperate). I have seen many guys that just thought "another foot" or "just a bit more" and decide to overide to complete the pick rather than stopping and getting what you need to do it right. And yes, I have done this many times when younger myself and no, I am not proud of it. It gets people killed.

The LMI would have shut down the sticks when in an overload or tipping moment and only allowed the operator to lower the load, not the boom. So either the CW was in place and the operator just exceeded his limit (intentionally by way of the key), or.... He was too lazy to bring the CW and knowingly set the machine up in the LMI prior to the lift with a full stack, thereby fooling the crane into allowing him to extend all the way.

Calling this a software malfunction is non-sense. A good operator always checks the chart prior to the lift. The LMI is a safety feature, not a replacement for the operator.

In the first scenario he is a doofus
In the second he is criminally negligent.

Just my $.02

 

[MartyO]

My favorite part was when the crane operator summed it up by saying "GOD DAMMIT!!!!"

 

[qdvuu]

What about the approach the home owner took on this project? From what I can tell, he's the "prime contractor" and is very involved personally running the project. Alternatively, he could have contracted out the job 100% to a crane/hottub company. What kind of insurance hassles has he set himself up for with the way he did things, and how would they be different if he contracted out the job?

 

[Professur]

I was sent for training as the backup forklift operator here last year. The entire class consisted of drilling into your head just how little stability a loaded 10,000lbs forklift has with as little as 500lbs 4' forward on the forks. I don't imagine the permit class for a crane is any different. In this case .. software error is operator error ... If you can't work out the load and angle numbers in your head, you damn well should have them on paper before you start.
And I fully agree with the person that said once the operator felt the truck go light, it was already far too late. The movement that upended the truck took time to travel down the boom, as much as several seconds. It's eerie to see the forklift mast do the same thing and keep moving long (seems an eternity) after you release the stick when at full extension and reach. There's a 'turtle' button on the stick for a damn good reason.

 

[moonpool145]

What about the approach the home owner took on this project? From what I can tell, he's the "prime contractor" and is very involved personally running the project. Alternatively, he could have contracted out the job 100% to a crane/hottub company. What kind of insurance hassles has he set himself up for with the way he did things, and how would they be different if he contracted out the job?

Quite possibly contracting this out would have avoided the problem if the contractor had a good on-site foreman that understood lifts and had the balls to shut down a bad one. That said I dont think there is anything wrong with being your own general, in fact that seesm to be the spirit of this site. The blame here belongs on the crane company first, the operator second. Maybe you could fault the home owner somewhere way down the line but thats like saying that when you hired a poor plumber and your sewer backed up its your fault as the home owner. When we hire proffessional service we expect them to perform as such. Concievably this could have happened even with a pool contractor as they usually contract out crane services and could have gotten the same inept operator.

 

[Graymills - Craig]

How are they going to set the crane back down? Get a even larger crane to lift the end of the boom back up? I'd imagine cutting the straps holding the hot tub wouldn't go so well.

Rumor has it they're hiring Oprah to sit on the front bumper.

 

[STClurker]

How are they going to set the crane back down? Get a even larger crane to lift the end of the boom back up? I'd imagine cutting the straps holding the hot tub wouldn't go so well.

If I was in charge of recovering that crane, I would use another crane and a heavy duty wrecker. the crane would be lifting up the boom (exactly where on the boom I'd have to consult with an engineer or similar) and the wrecker would be on the front of the crane controlling the decent.

I'd imagine the pool/hot tub/whatever is probably trashed by now and is on the ground, cutting the straps shouldn't be an issue at this point.

just my 2c, ohh and I'm not a crane operator nor did I stay at a holiday inn express last night, but that was clearly operator error.

 

[waynestoys]

Def operator error. and no the jib would have been worse .. jibs are for height not reach. He was simply to far away..But what do I know its only what i do for a living...LOL

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'd never set a crane up on a private driveway. How thick is that driveway 3" maybe 31/2" or maybe it's 6".

 

[justanengineer]

I'd never set a crane up on a private driveway. How thick is that driveway 3" maybe 31/2" or maybe it's 6".

A few people in this thread have said that, so please dont feel bad when I say this, but thats what crane mats are for - weight distribution. They also make very nice truck bedliners when cut down to size.

 

[R6 Racer]

Looks like they could have placed the crane a lot closer to the garage and kept it in closer and kept the stick up more. Looked to me like enough crane just not enough operator.

+1 Absolutely!
Operator error I think. The truck was not back as far as possible & the cable should have been let out, instead of lowering the boom. IMO

Cool vid tho !

Steve

 

[Underdog]

From another forum I visit. Thread just got started but this guy "crane operator" seems to know.

Nice video. I used to run a Grove tts 870 just like this one. If you notice in the pictures at the end you can see that there's no counterweight installed. The one I ran had up to 18 k of counterweight in three pieces. You have to set the computer for what you have installed.
You can also see that he boomed down first with the load, and then started telescoping out the tip sections to reach it. The telescope has two different modes, and the chart with no counterweight is much better if you don't put out the inner sections first, but the outer lighter one's.
I also noticed he was using a great big block two parted. The block probably weighs half as much as the pool.
The taxi crane/ rental game is tough in that everyone is always in a hurry, a lot of customers aren't used to working with cranes and the expense. So don't mess with putting on the counterweight, don't pull out the block and use the ball, don't get out a tape measure and see exactly how far it is. Hurry up because the meter is running and the customer only wants to spend x dollars. At least no one was hurt, and damage was only to the operators pride, the house, crane, and my insurance rates.
The last fiberglass pool I set in March around that size weighed 2800lbs. As far as being into the throttle hard, those are pilot hydraulic controls and it seems like you have to really be into the throttle to run that series smoothly.

http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?24240-How-not-to-set-a-hot-tub

 

[Notch1988]

Totally operator error. It would take five minutes to do a dry run, reference a load chart and see that it wasn't possible with that setup.

 

[NUTTSGT]

A few people in this thread have said that, so please dont feel bad when I say this, but thats what crane mats are for - weight distribution. They also make very nice truck bedliners when cut down to size.

Don't feel bad when I say this, everything looks good on paper.

This wasn't a crane but our ladder truck, with a live load, two men in the platform.

When it's a private driveway, you shouldn't be using it, you don't know how thick it is or what was used for fill.

 

[justanengineer]

Don't feel bad when I say this, everything looks good on paper.

This wasn't a crane but our ladder truck, with a live load, two men in the platform.

When it's a private driveway, you shouldn't be using it, you don't know how thick it is or what was used for fill.

Haha...another classic. One day I will figure out why operators think using those tiny pads will make much of a difference. I used to see that regularly with material handling cranes. Thickness of the asphast and fill has little to do with anything, and can easily be overcome with common sense and some scraps. Ive seen LARGE cranes used in swamps with no problem. Its a rather simple matter of overbuilding the mat - making it solid enough not to flex significantly and spreading the load over enough area. As seen in your picture, little surface area contacting the ground and a thin plate that flexes breaks the asphalt. Now had the operator stuck a railroad tie under that outrigger, or even a decent length 4x4, he likely wouldnt have had problems.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Haha...another classic. One day I will figure out why operators think using those tiny pads will make much of a difference. I used to see that regularly with material handling cranes. Thickness of the asphast and fill has little to do with anything, and can easily be overcome with common sense and some scraps. Ive seen LARGE cranes used in swamps with no problem. Its a rather simple matter of overbuilding the mat - making it solid enough not to flex significantly and spreading the load over enough area. As seen in your picture, little surface area contacting the ground and a thin plate that flexes breaks the asphalt. Now had the operator stuck a railroad tie under that outrigger, or even a decent length 4x4, he likely wouldnt have had problems.

I don't think you'll find many firefighters willing to put RR ties or 4x4s under the out riggers of a ladder truck. When your *** is on the line and in the bucket, you don't want to start oddball jacking an out riggers. If it's not safe to set it up, then it doesn't get set up, and that's why I would never set one up in a private driveway.

 

[IDASHO]

I would trust a concrete slab before any black top.

Ive had more problems setting outriggers on blacktop streets than concrete. WAY more. This is from 15+ years of driving as a CDL delivery driver for retail building material outfits. 50k trucks with knuckle booms, and material handlers.

Concrete may crack, but it will hold even with a bit of mesh/rebar. Blacktop is anything but solid. And once it starts pushing around, you are done.

That said, Ive put outriggers down on fresh cut, virgin soil with 24x24 pads, and pushed through while unloading materials.

You really cannot trust anything you set an outrigger down on. But I will always put more trust in a concrete slab. Just think about how old the streets are, how many sink holes are in it, or have been filled, how many times it has been capped, etc. Black top is a bee hive of potential problems. Concrete makes it very obvious if it is structurally sound.

Though whenever we are required to use a private drive for deliveries, the owner signs a damage waiver.

 

[rvr6000]

I don't think you'll find many firefighters willing to put RR ties or 4x4s under the out riggers of a ladder truck. When your *** is on the line and in the bucket, you don't want to start oddball jacking an out riggers. If it's not safe to set it up, then it doesn't get set up, and that's why I would never set one up in a private driveway.

Hey NUTTSGT....Is that a Grumman Aerialcat? I'd recognize those outriggers anywhere. We have a 1986 "Cat" at my station.

We had two of our smallest firefighters in the bucket for training a couple weeks ago and we could not fully extend the ladder straight out on one side without raising the outriggers on the opposite side. Obviously not a problem working off the back of the truck.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Hey NUTTSGT....Is that a Grumman Aerialcat? I'd recognize those outriggers anywhere. We have a 1986 "Cat" at my station.

We had two of our smallest firefighters in the bucket for training a couple weeks ago and we could not fully extend the ladder straight out on one side without raising the outriggers on the opposite side. Obviously not a problem working off the back of the truck.

Grumman, no, KME Aerialcat yes. second row fron the right, fourth one down.

http://fire.kovatch.com/ProductDivi...ivisionGallery/FireDivisionAerialGallery.aspx

 

[NUTTSGT]

I would trust a concrete slab before any black top.

Ive had more problems setting outriggers on blacktop streets than concrete. WAY more. This is from 15+ years of driving as a CDL delivery driver for retail building material outfits. 50k trucks with knuckle booms, and material handlers.

Concrete may crack, but it will hold even with a bit of mesh/rebar. Blacktop is anything but solid. And once it starts pushing around, you are done.

That said, Ive put outriggers down on fresh cut, virgin soil with 24x24 pads, and pushed through while unloading materials.

You really cannot trust anything you set an outrigger down on. But I will always put more trust in a concrete slab. Just think about how old the streets are, how many sink holes are in it, or have been filled, how many times it has been capped, etc. Black top is a bee hive of potential problems. Concrete makes it very obvious if it is structurally sound.

Though whenever we are required to use a private drive for deliveries, the owner signs a damage waiver.

I completely understand, but your last line, I think you know exactly what I'm talking about with private drives then.

 

[Buffalot]

Grumman, no, KME Aerialcat yes. second row fron the right, fourth one down.

http://fire.kovatch.com/ProductDivi...ivisionGallery/FireDivisionAerialGallery.aspx

KME=Keeping Mechanics Employed!

Every department I know that has a KME, only bought one. Cabinets completely falling off, stress fractures in the boom of a 6 month old 100' mid mount. Best of luck with that truck, but keep a good eye on it.

 

[Ironcrow]

Two questions (or really musings):
1) I get that you can design around every idiot. Still, why are we looking at a ******** paper chart in the 21st century? If we've got $500,000 for a crane, why aren't the stability monitoring systems better? It would seem the technology to measure load at each outrigger would be pretty reliable, inexpensive, and accurate.
2) I've hired several cranes and every time the operator has placed additional rigid support under the outrigger feet. Why don't the designers make the feet bigger?

 

[justanengineer]

Two questions (or really musings):
1) I get that you can design around every idiot. Still, why are we looking at a ******** paper chart in the 21st century? If we've got $500,000 for a crane, why aren't the stability monitoring systems better? It would seem the technology to measure load at each outrigger would be pretty reliable, inexpensive, and accurate.
2) I've hired several cranes and every time the operator has placed additional rigid support under the outrigger feet. Why don't the designers make the feet bigger?

1. Sorry to say, but you cant design around every idiot. Theyre like mice, they keep multiplying and making bigger idiots. The load charts should still be used by operators to double check the electronics. As they say about saluting in the military - "when in doubt, whip it out!" Which would you rather have happen, have the operator take 10 mins extra to double check that the lift angles and rigging are right or have a crane fall on your house?

2. The feet on outriggers arent designed in most cases to support anything even close to the machine's load in most applications, theyre simply designed to fit within the given space confines and/or be easily lifted in the case of detachable feet. Its an understood and widely used practice to use timbers or large steel mats to distribute the loads better, and in most cases is necessary.

Unfortunately we live in an era of "not my responsibility," and its sad. Oops! Good thing Ive got insurance.

 

[pj_rage]

If it came down to it, would you rather have a crane sunk into your driveway, or sunk into your garage with your new pool smashed in the backyard?

 

[Nighttrain]

I wonder if the pool made it into the hole? Sounded like a popping noise right before it fell over also.