Deck Lighting and Outlet Options

[larry4406]

Not really garage related, but I am redoing my rear deck and I do have a garage!

We want to install LED accent lights on the rail posts which appears rather straight forward and there are lots of options.

We also want to have outlets periodically around the rail perimeter (power for grille rotisserie, etc.).

The rail posts are PVC/vinyl sleeves which telescope around a pressure treated 4x4 so not a lot of options for using it as a raceway to conceal the wiring for the outlet if I mounted the outlets on the post. I do not want to see exposed conduit.

I see that Thomas & Betts has a rather slick floor box deck outlet. I assume one uses a jig saw to make the cutout or a router with template. Anyone use these?

Any ideas for cleanly mounting the outlets?

 

[Stuart in MN]

There are several videos on Youtube about them, it looks like you just need a saber saw to cut an oval hole in the deck board and then the receptacle will cover up any rough edges. They come with a template for laying out the hole. Search on Youtube for "Red Dot Deck Grommet PRO".

This is a link to the Thomas and Betts website for them: http://www.tnb.com/ps/fulltilt/index.cgi?part=DKGPRO&co=US
This is a link to the installation instruction sheet: http://www-public.tnb.com/shared/inst/TA04771-TB2.pdf

 

[Ralf11]

cut a big hole in a post and you kill its structural strength

put an outlet in a deck board and you worry about water ingress

if the deck is against the house, maybe mount on an interior wall and reduce the length of a cable run

 

[CJ7VFR]

I have a similar post set up on my deck. Pressure treated 4x4's with Trex post covers as I call them. As you said, there is not much room inside the post covers between the 4x4 and the inside surfaces of the post cover.

What was done at my house (before I purchased the place) in order to not have any conduit showing, and have all the cables tucked inside the post covers, was someone made shallow "dado" type groves on the 4x4's were the receptacles are.

I don't know if they were made by hand, or if they were cut in there prior to the 4x4 posts being installed, or even if the 4x4 posts were removed at some point to make the grooves, but that is what was done.

The grooves are about 3/8 of an inch deep, and about 3/4 of an inch wide so that the UF-B cable fits just a hair above being flush with the outside of the 4x4 post. Then the cable was secured with thin flat stainless steel pieces that are 1/2 inch wide by about 1.5 inches long, and have a hole on each end with a nail in it to secure them to the post. Think of it like one of those white plastic cable holders/staples with the two nails in them that you get at Home Depot, only made of stainless steel and are flat.

Anyway, this allows for just a hole to be made in the post cover so the cable can come into each receptacle/box, and the cables remain hidden in the post and post cover.

I don't have any pictures, but hopefully you get the idea. It ends up looking just like the picture you posted that shows the two outlet boxes installed on the white posts.

Jim

 

[75gmck25]

There are definitely very elegant ways to install boxes. However, my vote for simplicity is to install the box on the side of the 4x4 post and run the conduit straight down from there to under the deck. Mounting on the side of the post allows you to set the box back far enough to be even with the face of the 4x4, keeping it out of the walkway, even if you use one of the large in-use covers. If you paint the box the same color as the post I think it would blend in fairly well.

Bruce

 

[larry4406]

There are definitely very elegant ways to install boxes. However, my vote for simplicity is to install the box on the side of the 4x4 post and run the conduit straight down from there to under the deck. Mounting on the side of the post allows you to set the box back far enough to be even with the face of the 4x4, keeping it out of the walkway, even if you use one of the large in-use covers. If you paint the box the same color as the post I think it would blend in fairly well.

Bruce

I don't see this working with the Trex rail system I posted. The rails are in the same plane as the post. Side mount of the electric box to the post will cause the conduit to crash with the bottom rail. Conduit would be visible and unsightly snaking around the rail.

 

[larry4406]

I have a similar post set up on my deck. Pressure treated 4x4's with Trex post covers as I call them. As you said, there is not much room inside the post covers between the 4x4 and the inside surfaces of the post cover.

What was done at my house (before I purchased the place) in order to not have any conduit showing, and have all the cables tucked inside the post covers, was someone made shallow "dado" type groves on the 4x4's were the receptacles are.

I don't know if they were made by hand, or if they were cut in there prior to the 4x4 posts being installed, or even if the 4x4 posts were removed at some point to make the grooves, but that is what was done.

The grooves are about 3/8 of an inch deep, and about 3/4 of an inch wide so that the UF-B cable fits just a hair above being flush with the outside of the 4x4 post. Then the cable was secured with thin flat stainless steel pieces that are 1/2 inch wide by about 1.5 inches long, and have a hole on each end with a nail in it to secure them to the post. Think of it like one of those white plastic cable holders/staples with the two nails in them that you get at Home Depot, only made of stainless steel and are flat.

Anyway, this allows for just a hole to be made in the post cover so the cable can come into each receptacle/box, and the cables remain hidden in the post and post cover.

I don't have any pictures, but hopefully you get the idea. It ends up looking just like the picture you posted that shows the two outlet boxes installed on the white posts.

Jim

Thanks Jim - I thought about routing a groove for the wire in the post like you suggested. Framer has already installed the posts so there would be some unwind to remove the posts, route the groove, then reinstall them.

I don't have the railing system in hand yet, so not sure and still looking for options.

 

[larry4406]

cut a big hole in a post and you kill its structural strength

put an outlet in a deck board and you worry about water ingress

if the deck is against the house, maybe mount on an interior wall and reduce the length of a cable run

1. Agree - not interested in wounding the post to recess the electric box.

2. All exterior outlets are GFI protected. I assume the Thomas and Betts floor box is a UL listed "in use" exterior device?

3. Yes the deck is against the house, I already have outlets there, but I don't want my grille next to the house; rather on the far end against the rail thus the desire for power at the rail.

 

[Ralf11]

use a router with a jig and some muscle to control it and you can cut that groove in situ - follow up with a little chisel work at the ends

vinyl cover or a facia board to conceal the cable & groove

 

[Shiftless]

How often do you use that grill rotisserie?
Just keep an extension cord under the grill or rewire the motor with a longer cord and keep it behind closed doors of your grill.
If you REALLY want a lot of receptacles around your deck, I suggest EMT conduit and paint it black or dark brown to match your deck stain color. Lots of high end resorts have exposed conduit in locations like that.

 

[Stuart in MN]

2. All exterior outlets are GFI protected. I assume the Thomas and Betts floor box is a UL listed "in use" exterior device?

Yes, it is.

 

[alfredeneuman]

A groove would need nail protection plates the full length of it to pass Code.

 

[larry4406]

A groove would need nail protection plates the full length of it to pass Code.

Thanks for stating this. I knew something wasn't quite right with that approach.

Spit balling here:
Nail protection plates are 1/16" thick. Simpson makes coiled strapping for tension reinforcements of framed structures. The CMST product for example can be had in 14 gauge (~5/64" > 1/16") and would reinforce the post where it were grooved.

Alternately, 1/2" EMT is 0.706" outside diameter. If the groove were 3/4" wide and 3/4" deep, the EMT would pocket into the groove and I assume would provide the needed wire protection? Then run THHN/THWN wire and have a junction box below deck.

Keep the thoughts/ideas coming!

 

[mobetta]

I routed a 3/4 groove for emt into the 6x6 posts on my outdoor kitchen. I then wrapped those with rough cedar.

since you are making your deck out of plastic its a little bit harder to make an outlet recessed- with lumber theres ways to make a wider post, sleeve etc...
with man made materials ya get what ya get....

It may be possible to add a "post" that isnt structural.
I'm thinking a trex post sleeve with a box recessed into it- or maybe even fabbing something with steel to replace an existing post. sleeve it, add in use cover and done.

Or use a steel yard light post with an outlet, cut it down and sleeve it with the plastic thing.
(not a fan of plastic decks if ya cant tell)

that coil strapping is full of holes in the wrong place but there are other options that would work

personally Id route a dado and surface mount a box behind the grill where it'd be most out of site.

the deck mount box looks like a great addition to put under the dining table area or seating area for peeps to charge devices. Here SWMBO made the call that we dont want power there, people should be social not on social media. If they need a charge they can plug in over by the kitchen.

 

[Shiftless]

“ people should be social not on social media. If they need a charge they can plug in over by the kitchen.”

Right!

During a recent PGE PSPS planned power shutoff we continued our previously made plans for a party on our deck. I ran a string of LED lights off an inverter and brought out a jump pack that had a USB port so one woman could recharge her almost dead phone.

All in all...not so bad.

 

[yeldogt]

Can't comment on the deck mount electric -- although it would have to be out of the way as the cord will be a trip hazard. Whenever I see something cool like that I start thinking ... why don't I see more of them.

In my mind the picture showing the box on the post w/o the conduit going down is really no better looking. I'm a detail nut and you can go crazy trying to do some things that no one notices.

I will say .. be careful placing outlets on a deck proud of the railing .... you can hit them with your leg.

Personally -- I like to really think it out. Where is the grill going -- get a proper outlet in that location ... will you even see it. I also do covers that are not "in use" for many areas where they will not be used that way. I know code gets crazy .... but in many areas I don't want a big cover sticking out for a blender that I'm not going to use in the rain

 

[mobetta]

For in use covers I've been using the Taymac expandable ones (menards carries em)

they are horizontal OR vertical and allow a 12-2 cord to plug in and close, and smaller usb adapters fit too

ZORO