Deep sockets with a shallow broach - problem?

[steelespeed]

Hi guys,

Just wondering, do deep sockets with an internal shoulder pose a significant clearance problem? I am talking about how some deep sockets have the interior hex shape broached almost to the bottom while others only go part way.

I guess I'm just wondering why some do it one way while other do it the other as I know there have been times when a shallow broached deep socket would get hung up in a tight spot once the nut or bolt started to back off and push it into an obstacle.

 

[csmitty]

I could see that being one issue. Or having a longer than standard nut and only griping half of it. I can see how it helps to start nuts but I usually do that by hand if possible. Mainly seen it with my Proto impack sockets, honestly can't remember if the SO sets I have have them since they're on hansen trays. the SK deeps I have are the same way while alot of my older CMan deeps do not.

 

[wolflrv]

I've only run across a few deep socket sets that had the socket "short-sheeted" and I just walked past and didn't buy them. For me...if I need a deep socket, then I usually need a deep socket...not a longer short socket..that's what extensions are for!

 

[bart1]

These are both Wright metric deeps:

 

[Hiball]

These are both Wright metric deeps:

I have used both versions and why I don't understand why wright utilized that version, I also never had any issues where the bolt wouldnt fit through the center slot and not allowing me to get full depth.

 

[wolflrv]

Sometimes bigger acorn nuts won't fit or situation with wanting to use a rachet on a nut with a long thread sticking up, rather than fiddling with a wrench. I know..get gearwrenches...but haven't gotten any of those yet...LOL!

 

[chilly460]

I actually prefer the short broached version. Basically, if the bolt will pass through the nut in the socket, it fits in the hole in the center of the socket. The short broach allows you to pop the nut in the socket and use that to help thread it on the bolt when you need a little extra reach.

 

[Hiball]

I actually prefer the short broached version. Basically, if the bolt will pass through the nut in the socket, it fits in the hole in the center of the socket. The short broach allows you to pop the nut in the socket and use that to help thread it on the bolt when you need a little extra reach.

Yep.. Thread length has nothing to do with both of the above mentioned socket variations. Like I said, I've never encountered a issue where the shouldered version wouldn't clear the bolt.

 

[bart1]

Shallow broach wouldn't work well with the lug nuts on my cars:

 

[Hiball]

Shallow broach wouldn't work well with the lug nuts on my cars:

Just use a shallow on that lug, but Yes.. There are definitely sitsuations where the shoulder would prevent you from using the wright sockets. I suspect most people dont use chrome sockets on wheel lugs (unless it's for clearance) and wright catering mainly to the industrial sector didnt have to worry about lug nuts.

 

[steelespeed]

Yes, I don't think I have ever had a situation where a long bolt would interfere with the shouldered or short broach deep socket interior. I can also see where a short broach version would help start a nut by holding it at the end of the socket, but i would most likely use my hand or a magnetic tool to do that (it is a good idea, however).

I think it comes down more to the rare clearance issue when you don't have room to swing a wrench and there is limited vertical space between the nut and the intruding object above it. You might be able to start the deep socket, but since the socket will rise with the nut (as opposed to a fully broached socket staying near the workpiece) the chance for getting stuck is increased.

Like I said, I know it's a rare occasion when that happens, but it does. I guess I'm just thinking out loud as I am in the market for a new set of deep sockets and trying to decide if that should influence a decision. I know SK does it, but others don't and I am somewhat trying to avoid Craftsman. Somewhat.

 

[bart1]

I use chrome on my Aluminum lug nuts. Tighten with a torque wrench every time.

 

[porphyre]

It would be nice if "deep" sockets were divided into two categories.

LONG WALL socket - this would be a long socket with a short broaching.
DEEP WELL socket - this would be a long socket with a full length broach.

But everybody just calls 'em deep sockets and you never know how long the broach is until you see 'em.

 

[McKay]

I prefer the short broach as well....I usually start the nut with the socket and not my hand to do this is obviously much easier with a short broach.....My snap-ons are short broach.

 

[SCscoutguy]

I encountered this last Saturday when I was putting a new axle on my boat trailer. I was running the nuts up on the u bolts and my deep SK socket short sheeted me. It took me a few seconds to realize what was going on as I only needed probably an 1/8th of an inch further to snug it flush. I ended up going and getting my Kobalt pass through sockets and finishing them that way.

 

[rsanter]

thats why I have double sets
the snap ons are my primary and the craftsman are the backups

generally the shallow broach is more of a help than a hinderance

bob

 

[steelespeed]

I like "porphyre's" idea of two naming conventions.

I guess I should go take a gander at one of the new pass through socket sets to make it a real no-issue. Are the Kobalt versions Chinese or Taiwanese? I saw the Craftsman and Gear Wrench versions recently and they were both from China. I have no issues with a Taiwanese produced tool, in fact I like many of them, but I try to avoid Chinese when possible.

 

[wafrederick]

The short broached SO Deepwell 9/16'' sockets come in handy when starting waterpump bolts on any older small block Chevy.

 

[nbpt100]

An older thread but nonetheless interesting.

It would be good if the manufacturer indicated if the broach was full or short.

MY older CMan deeps are a combination of both short and full broach. It appears there is no rhyme or reason to it.

The shorter broach would make for a stronger socket. I have never broke one or have heard of anyone breaking a deep socket with the exception of extreme abuse.

They both have their pros and cons as discussed above.

I am sure the short is easier to manufacture and will be more popular over time.

 

[jrockford]

Smaller SK sockets have shallow broaches.

 

[derosa]

Getting axle nuts on a bike with pegs makes the shallower broach a lot nicer, never knew of the shallower styles so all my deep 15 and 19mm had paper shoved in them.

 

[bcradio]

I definitely prefer deep broach myself. I would rather have the advantages of the deep broach and on the very rare (like almost never) occasion a shallow broach would help, I'll just start with a short socket and switch to a deep after that.

 

[Provincial]

The only time I have had a problem with either broach length was using a deep-broach Craftsman socket on aviation spark plugs. The radio shielded plugs have a long steel body that has external threads on the upper end to connect the wire harness. There are two sizes of these threads, and the larger one is bigger than the plug barrel. The deep-broach Craftsman would damage these threads if it wasn't perfectly aligned.

I cut a piece of aluminum sheet and rolled it to fit in the upper end of the socket to protect the threads. Later, I replaced this socket with a shallow-broached one that had a large enough recess to clear the threads. These threads were much larger than a standard bolt thread, so most shallow-broached sockets would not fit.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Each project will reflect which is the best suited.. There are times I don't want a nut sliding deep into a socket, but the deep socket is needed to clear the threads of a stud.

Best to buy what is needed for Your own needs...

 

[2oolhound]

It would be nice if "deep" sockets were divided into two categories.

short broaching.
full length broach.

Great idea!

Farm equipment breaks during harvest, refineries and factories have a designated annual "Shut Down" where only a skeleton operation is kept running while everything else can be stripped and taken to a machine shop for proper repairs and out door logging and construction work is seasonal. When the ground is frozen things have to get done. When the ground thaws (Break-Up) you have time to dismantle and properly repair stuff. All other times equipment is patched and haywired so the work continues. If you're working on older or heavily used equipment or aluminum or delicate threads and encounter machinery with some banged up threads or there's danger of cross threading, some downward pressure and keeping the fastener square is important. Shallow broach sockets hold the fastener more positively positioned and allow you to apply enough force to keep threading on track.

My motorcycle cylinder head has some head bolts you can get with a socket but will raise the socket up until it jambs on the frame. There's always a few other instances where the issue crops up but you can spot them before there's a problem. I like using a ratchet on the forcing screw of pullers if theres a lot of thread to tighten up. A deep broach will sit down further and not wobble around like a shallow broach sitting on the end will. I keep some deep broaches around and have work arounds for these situations but still prefer shallow broach for my main set.