I'm doing addition so there is a new Ufer rebar installed at one corner of the front garage. The new 200 amp main panel is at the diagonal back corner and a 125 sub panel in a laundry area next to garage. I have installed 4 wires(#2 copper for 2 hot, neutral and #4 for ground) from main panel to sub panel. Since it already has a ground from main to sub panel, can I just run #4 ground wire from the sub panel to ufer rod? Or do I need run a separate #4 ground from main to ufer instead?
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Do I need run a separate ground wire to ufer rebar?
- Thread starter gte816q
- Start date
Zeke
Well-known member
You didn't say if the subpanel was in a detached building. If no then your 4 wires from the main to the sub are all you are required to do. If you want to run a ground (EGC) to the ufer no one will complain.
If the sub is in a detached building I don't think a ufer of an addition is gonna keep you from having to use 2 ground rods.
If the sub is in a detached building I don't think a ufer of an addition is gonna keep you from having to use 2 ground rods.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
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Last edited:
FredWanaker
Well-known member
a lot of cities will answer a quick question like that at the building planning department. They often have an e-mail or contact page one can fill out and ask. Locales can have slightly different requirements, perhaps as subtle as how the bonding is done. Those requirements can be moving targets too depending on which year of code is adopted by a locale. As an example, 10 years ago one could do up to two layers of roofing here over 7/16" sheathing (meaning no tearoff) but today one must tear off and add 1/2" sheathing to anything under 1/2" of sheathing originally. In addition, they walk the new roofs at inspections between layers (after tearing off and new sheathing / facia if needed), then underlayment, and a final at roof-trim-gutters, rather than just eyeballing it with a pair of binoculars for the final.
Zeke
Well-known member
And a lot won't. How long is this rebar? Unless there are complete facts no one can say for sure. I'd bet ufer or not, if the addition is to a detached building then 2 EGC rods are going in. Not enough info.
If they have the Ufer then the rods are not necessary.And a lot won't. How long is this rebar? Unless there are complete facts no one can say for sure. I'd bet ufer or not, if the addition is to a detached building then 2 EGC rods are going in. Not enough info.
billconner
Well-known member
I agree and that is the code where I live - if you have a panel in a detached building, a ufer in that building will be sufficient ground. What I'm unclear about in this case: are the panel and the ufer in the same detached structure, or is the ufer in another addition?If they have the Ufer then the rods are not necessary.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
so both the main and the subpanel are in the same building? if so then the subpanel doesnt need to be connected to the electrode... just needs to be 4-wire.I'm doing addition so there is a new Ufer rebar installed at one corner of the front garage. The new 200 amp main panel is at the diagonal back corner and a 125 sub panel in a laundry area next to garage. I have installed 4 wires(#2 copper for 2 hot, neutral and #4 for ground) from main panel to sub panel. Since it already has a ground from main to sub panel, can I just run #4 ground wire from the sub panel to ufer rod? Or do I need run a separate #4 ground from main to ufer instead?
also #2 cu is too small for 125a feeder. you need #1 cu....
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
the conductor going to the electrode is called a GEC- grounding electrode conductor, not an EGCYou didn't say if the subpanel was in a detached building. If no then your 4 wires from the main to the sub are all you are required to do. If you want to run a ground (EGC) to the ufer no one will complain.
If the sub is in a detached building I don't think a ufer of an addition is gonna keep you from having to use 2 ground rods.
Rusted Nut
Well-known member
Call your local electrical inspector and ask. I‘ve installed about a dozen ufer grounds on new commercial construction projects over the last dozen years; and they have all been different, even in the same jurisdiction.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Allowing inspectors to make stuff up helps no one except themCall your local electrical inspector and ask. I‘ve installed about a dozen ufer grounds on new commercial construction projects over the last dozen years; and they have all been different, even in the same jurisdiction.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
that doesnt make sense. code clearly defines how a UFER is too be installed and there are no variables... sounds like the inspectors in your jurisdiction have no clue.Call your local electrical inspector and ask. I‘ve installed about a dozen ufer grounds on new commercial construction projects over the last dozen years; and they have all been different, even in the same jurisdiction.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
That's one of my biggest gripes with some jurisdictions. There might be five inspectors and not a single one of them knows anything. There is one city I work in that has three actual electrical inspectors. The same for anything that falls under the states jurisdiction, but they are so effed up that one inspector has to cover nine counties so good luck getting anything done in a timely manner. Every place else has a bunch of clueless guys. I will say that inspections are easier to pass with themthat doesnt make sense. code clearly defines how a UFER is too be installed and there are no variables... sounds like the inspectors in your jurisdiction have no clue.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
We have some combination "inspect all trades" inspectors in smaller jurisdictions.There might be five inspectors and not a single one of them knows anything.
They generally know things like structural, and don't know diddly squat about AC, electrical, or plumbing.
I the city I live in I swear that it is strictly revenue not safety with inspections.We have some combination "inspect all trades" inspectors in smaller jurisdictions.
They generally know things like structural, and don't know diddly squat about AC, electrical, or plumbing.
Rusted Nut
Well-known member
Might not make sense. but it's reality. I've found by calling inspectors you can eliminate a lot of failed inspections and schedule delays.that doesnt make sense. code clearly defines how a UFER is too be installed and there are no variables... sounds like the inspectors in your jurisdiction have no clue.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
they cant fail you for made up code though, which is what it sounds like theyre doing. ask them for the code violation...Might not make sense. but it's reality. I've found by calling inspectors you can eliminate a lot of failed inspections and schedule delays.
Thank you all for the comments!
Here are some clarification:
- Main panel, sub panel, ufer are all in the same building. No separate building involved.
- Ufer has passed the inspection during concrete phase( 20' 5/8" rebar enclosed in concrete footing)
- city requires "Grounding shall consist of a continuous grounding electrode conductor run from the panel to a ground rod (grounding electrode)...", here for addition I need to run a grounding conductor from main panel to ufer.
My question mainly is:
Since it already has a ground(#4 copper in the 4 wire from main to sub panel) from main to sub panel, can I just run #4 ground wire from the sub panel to ufer rod? Or do I need run a separate #4 ground from main to ufer instead?
Thanks in advance for all the helps!
Here are some clarification:
- Main panel, sub panel, ufer are all in the same building. No separate building involved.
- Ufer has passed the inspection during concrete phase( 20' 5/8" rebar enclosed in concrete footing)
- city requires "Grounding shall consist of a continuous grounding electrode conductor run from the panel to a ground rod (grounding electrode)...", here for addition I need to run a grounding conductor from main panel to ufer.
My question mainly is:
Since it already has a ground(#4 copper in the 4 wire from main to sub panel) from main to sub panel, can I just run #4 ground wire from the sub panel to ufer rod? Or do I need run a separate #4 ground from main to ufer instead?
Thanks in advance for all the helps!
Zeke
Well-known member
Sorry. My dyslexia gets the best of me sometimes. I know the difference between the 2. Acronyms can be tricky.the conductor going to the electrode is called a GEC- grounding electrode conductor, not an EGC
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
you dont need to run a GEC from a sub to an electrode in your case since the sub is in the same building as the main. only the main needs a GEC to the electrode.Thank you all for the comments!
Here are some clarification:
- Main panel, sub panel, ufer are all in the same building. No separate building involved.
- Ufer has passed the inspection during concrete phase( 20' 5/8" rebar enclosed in concrete footing)
- city requires "Grounding shall consist of a continuous grounding electrode conductor run from the panel to a ground rod (grounding electrode)...", here for addition I need to run a grounding conductor from main panel to ufer.
My question mainly is:
Since it already has a ground(#4 copper in the 4 wire from main to sub panel) from main to sub panel, can I just run #4 ground wire from the sub panel to ufer rod? Or do I need run a separate #4 ground from main to ufer instead?
Thanks in advance for all the helps!