electric oven to welder plug?

[1931S/X]

i want to pick up an electric oven and powder coat a few things, i have a sub panel and a 50 amp plug for my welders in my garage and a 50' #8 3 prong extension cord. id like to run the oven on my extension cord, but i think most ovens are 4 wire, is there a safe way to do this? i did some google and found mixed opinions, but im not looking to make this a permanent instalation and dont think ill ever use the cooktop.

 

[Norcal]

No legal way to do it 3-wire.... Not a existing installation, nor is modifying the range a wise move.

 

[spongerich]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that most ovens are 4 wire because they're a 3 wire 220v for the heating elements and 110 for the clock, lights, etc.

Depending on the oven, it might be trivial to rewire it leaving off the 120v stuff that you don't need. If it's newer that might include the thermostat, in which case you're definitely SOL. I'd do some more searching before giving up.

Tons of people have used donor ovens to make powder coating rigs so there is a decent amount of info out there.

 

[evildky]

I'm in the opposite situation, I plan to make an adapter to plug my welder into the oven outlet

most modern over/stove plugs are 4 wire, which is a minor update fomr the 3 wire, the old 3 wire was 2 hot and one neutral, the new 4 wire is exactly the same except that it adds an additional ground, and in my area current code still has the ground and neutral terminating side by side ont he same buss bar

so my advise first of all is to look for an older 3 wire oven, but if you must use a 4 wire it should still function just fine without the additional ground

no I'm not an electrician so if you don't understand it enough to not burn down your shop call in a pro

 

[sberry]

so my advise first of all is to look for an older 3 wire oven, but if you must use a 4 wire it should still function just fine without the additional ground

no I'm not an electrician so if you don't understand it enough to not burn down your shop call in a pro

no I'm not an electrician so if you don't understand it enough to not burn down your shop call in a pro

Good advice, would be well worth following. All equipment must be grounded unless its designed not to or using gfci. The 4th wire is NOT an additional ground, it is THE ground. In some old equipment the bond was allowed at the appliance, allowing the N or the 3rd wire to be both a current carry conductor and ground wire.

 

[sberry]

This is fundamental. There is a lot of discussion around a lot of issues on this board but one thing we will have a consensus on is the difference between Neural and ground.
I am not electrician and don't really know anything about electricity in general and don't all that much care but over a career I see this concept missed, the difference between a 3 wire and a 4 wire plug.
I have study and work on other forums early on, lot of things I see in the world that should be done differently even by qualified people, this isn't my home forum so I surf it as do Norcal and Aceman who are or should be honing their craft here, biggest thing is, often a hard concept in the written word but I really enjoy a spot where I can see the light go on ant the guy on the other end grasps neutral ground, separation, the difference between 3 and 4 wires.
You can cruise around quoting code or you can use your talent and make some threads with some good content, post them around.
I don't like to paste up others work leave the impression I dun it but similar to this.

The panels in separate buildings are not really sub panels as far as code is concerned. They are the service equipment for the structure. You can have a sub panel from the service equipment in each building if you want. Between buildings, section 250.32 applies and if there are metal interconnections between buildings such as water piping, or air lines, or any metal interconnection at all, then you must install an equipment ground wire so if you have a 120/240 system, you would have four wires. The neutral would be separated in each building and a grounding bar would be installed, just like a sub panel. Then the code requires a grounding electrode conductor (GEC) to a grounding electrode (usually a ground rod). The GEC will be connected to the equipment ground bar at each building. This is not to clear overcurrent devices, this is for two reasons. One is lightning, the more important one is to put the equipment ground at the same relative potential as the earth. This is for step potential or touch potential voltages so that what you touch in the building is at the same potential as what you are standing on. Now the tricky part. If you do not have any interconnecting metal between buildings, the code allows you to install three conductors between buildings. When you do this you bond the neutral and ground the neutral just like a new service. Some inspectors think that every panel in a separate building must be treated as a subpanel, but this is not true. In past codes (1996 and older) these rule were in section 250-24 and Exception 2 addressed the grounding bus.

Last changed: June 17, 2002

You could argue the guys statement about sub vs service but one needs to understand the fundamental principle to insure a safe install.

 

[sberry]

There are other old masters on here on occasion and some simply give up to some extent, they have seen 1000's of messes provide service.
This is to Norcal and Ace, work on the principle and the code understanding will follow the guys you are speaking to. It wasnt till I had the understanding that the code made sense. Its not an electrical principle but a guru teaching concept, a guy cant have any deep understanding till he has the raw basic concept.
It hit me with John Nelson at DIY and Warren Goodrich, they were patient enough and when I could repeat myself to others in my own words.

 

[56nash]

I am not an electrician, nor do I play one on TV, and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. A few years back I did a remodel on my folks kitchen and removed an old wall oven that was 3 wire, 2 hot, 1 ground. I remember this because of the monumental headache it caused getting a 4 wire feed to it through finished walls and ceilings. Look for an old wall oven, most ranges have 120V feeding the surface elements, but the oven element is usually 240V.

 

[evildky]

I refereed to it as an "additional ground" as the ground and nuetral share a termination (same buss bar, same waterpipe ground,same earth ground rod,same pole termination), this is current code for the primary box in my area at this time, a slave box is rewquired to have the ground and neutral's seperated and the ground run to a sepperate earth ground rod

and while I'm sure some more modern higher end 4 wire stoves have isolated ground and neutral pathways the ones I've seen have all simply added a ground wire to the chassis which is already "grounded" to the neutral terminal

 

[ishiboo]

and while I'm sure some more modern higher end 4 wire stoves have isolated ground and neutral pathways the ones I've seen have all simply added a ground wire to the chassis which is already "grounded" to the neutral terminal

No. The chassis is attached only to the ground, not the neutral.

 

[sberry]

Agreed the N is insulated, should be, they went to great length and code revisions to do this, not simply stake on another ground wire.

 

[sberry]

I changed houses a while back, was light on kitchen circuits so while I was running them I check the rest out and what do you know,,, I look at the dryer, great, already 4 wire but when I check some other stuff I find a bond and low behold someone put a 4 wire cord on and leave it chassis bonded.

 

[1931S/X]

so what "could" happen? i know a little about electrical stuff, i did my own subpanel and wired the welder up, i only know what i do for myself after researching it.

 

[Norcal]

I changed houses a while back, was light on kitchen circuits so while I was running them I check the rest out and what do you know,,, I look at the dryer, great, already 4 wire but when I check some other stuff I find a bond and low behold someone put a 4 wire cord on and leave it chassis bonded.

Appliance installers eff up a *********....

 

[jam0o0]

i had to plug my 3 prong welder into a 4 prong drier plug an electrician told me my wiring was correct. fwiw:

quote:
i have 10/4 cable and 4 prong male on one end wired right. on the other i have a 3 prong female in a plastic wiring box. i'm gunna put each hot wire (red and black in this case) on it's own side. the ground on the 3 prong female (middle) i'm putting the green wire (which i hooked to the terminal for ground according to the instructions supplied with the 4 prong male plug) to the third screw (grd) on the female 3 prong. i'm taping off the end of the white (neutral) on the 3 prong box end of the wire.