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Electrical Surge Experiences

mobiledynamics

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Mar 14, 2010
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Gotham City
The only time prior to today, was a surge through the telephone line , that fried a phone....

Got a surge at the business today. Shorted out 2 computers which was behind a surge supressor and on a different out, the kitchen mixer seems to be acting wonky.

Let me hear it EE gurus.

At home, I have a Eaton whole house unit.

Just curious to learn more...
 
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awdblazer

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Oct 17, 2011
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winnipeg, manitoba, canada
happen all the time here
but you make a claim with the local utility and they will replace it all without having to go through your house insurance
if you ever have a surge and you have a surge supressor your insurance will make you claim it through whoevers surge supressor you have and you will likely not get any compensation
 

wyliesdiesels

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Modesto, CA
The surge suppressors might have been dead from clamping previous surges. Some surge suppressors stop allowing power through once theyre used up but not all do this. Is this an old building with little or no proper equipment grounds? I would check all the bonding, equipment grounds and grounding electrodes to make sure everything is to snuff!

As far as filling a claim with the utility, I think that only works IF the surge was a result of a lineman screwup or equipment failure! If it was lightning, good luck on getting compensated from the PoCo....
 

awdblazer

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winnipeg, manitoba, canada
my buddy just went through this, was a lightning strike, blew the lightning aresstors on the line and made its way into my buddies house
since the local utilities lightning arrestor didnt work they are paying for everything to be fixed or replaced
 
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Falcon67

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Merkel, TX
The surge suppressors might have been dead from clamping previous surges. Some surge suppressors stop allowing power through once theyre used up but not all do this. Is this an old building with little or no proper equipment grounds? I would check all the bonding, equipment grounds and grounding electrodes to make sure everything is to snuff

Most cheap suppressors use MOVs or clamping diodes and are one shot deals. Unless it's behind a real UPS like APC or other name brand, I wouldn't look for any compensation.

FWIW - we've lost more networking equipment due to power issues in modern buildings built to code than in our old buildings from the 30s~50s with who knows what in the walls.
 

westom

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Aug 16, 2009
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221
The only time prior to today, was a surge through the telephone line , that fried a phone....

Got a surge at the business today. Shorted out 2 computers which was behind a surge supressor and on a different out, the kitchen mixer seems to be acting wonky.
First, no protector does protection. Effective protectors means no damage even from direct lightning strikes when the protector connects a surge, low impedance (ie 'less than 10 feet'), to single point earth ground.

Second, surges that do damage can be hundreds of thousands of joules. View the specification numbers on every protector - especially ones adjacent to appliances. Those can only block or absorb the surge ... using hundreds of joules. IOW near zero protection.

The other and so effective solution might be the Eaton (Cutler-Hammer). But only if you did due diligence. Only you are responsible for installing, upgrading, inspecting, or maintaining what does the protection: single point earth ground. That earth ground is why 'whole house' protectors (ie an Eaton) provide effective protection. Because protection means you can say where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate.

Protectors adjacent to appliances will not discuss earthing, do not claim to protect from destructive types of surges, in some cases may make surge damage easier, and are often so undersized that a internal thermal fuse must blow to avert a house fire. IOW even plug-in protectors need protection only possible with one properly earthed 'whole house' protector.

Third, above discusses destructive surges. You did not say anything that said a surge existed. Power dips or outages are not destructive. But can be a symptom of the utility temporarily cutting off power because a surge existed.

Fourth, moving on to telephone. Telephones have had 'whole house' protectors installed for free for longer than any of us have existed. But again, no protector does protection. Is that telco installed protector properly earthed ( ie 'less than 10 foot connection to your single point earth ground)?

Telephone damage is usually due to surges entering on AC mains. A direct lightning strike far down the street to AC mains (highest wires on the pole) is a direct strike to every appliance in the house. Are all appliances damaged? Of course not. To have destructive electricity, both an incoming and an outgoing path to earth must exist. What is often a best outgoing path to earth? That properly protected phone line.

A surge incoming on AC mains hunts destructively for earth ground. Finds a best path via something connected to the phone line. Damage is often on the outgoing path - a phone modem, portable phone base station, fax, etc.

Fifth, many who are only educated by advertising and hearsay assume protectors are one shot devices. The myth is very profitable. Even code (that only addresses human safety; not transistor safety) does not define surge protection. Any protector damaged by a surge is grossly undersized (as well as obscenely overpriced). A surge too tiny to overwhelm protection inside all appliances may destroy that grossly undersized protector. Then junk science reasoning assumes that is what a protector is supposed to do. Conclusion made from observation and wild speculation is classic junk science.

Instead, view the numbers. That power strip at hundreds of joules, attempting to absorb even a less tens of thousand joules surge, must fail catastrophically as the manufacturer intended to promote more sales and myths. Again, protection is always defined by what harmlessly absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. That adjacent power strip has no earth ground, will not discuss it, and fails due to a surge even too small to harm an appliance.

Sixth, more protection: TV cable needs no protector. A hardwire connects cable to single point earth ground. Again, what does protection? Not a protector. Protection is earth ground. If a hardwire is low impedance (ie 'less than 10 feet'), then a surge is connected to protection BEFORE it can go hunting destructively inside.

In this case, a hardwire is better than a protector. Use a protector, to do what a hardwire would do better, only when the utility cannot be connected directly to earth (ie telephone, AC electric).

Bottom line: that is basic surge protection as well understood even 100 years ago from both science and experience. If the Eaton is properly sized (ie at least 50,000 amps), then it will earth a direct lightning strike and remain functional (as those numbers demonstrate). Effective protectors must always remain functional after a surge. If the Eaton is grossly undersized for your venue, then consider a 100,000 amp or larger protector. Since a failed protector means the surge was still connected directly to electronics. And only the electronic appliance protected itself.

Even described is a typically reason for phone damage. Especially when phone wires are below AC electric - are less often struck. A most common source of incoming surges is AC electric. Above only introduced the 'art' of protection: earth ground. There is a whole long discussion on that. That will even make obvious why a wall receptacle safety ground is not earth ground.
 
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Falcon67

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"There are several issues to be noted regarding behavior of transient voltage surge suppressors (TVSS) incorporating MOVs under over-voltage conditions. Depending on the level of conducted current, dissipated heat may be insufficient to cause failure, but may degrade the MOV device and reduce its life expectancy. If excessive current is conducted by a MOV, it may fail catastrophically, keeping the load connected, but now without any surge protection. A user may have no indication when the surge suppressor has failed. Under the right conditions of over-voltage and line impedance, it may be possible to cause the MOV to burst into flames,[3] the root cause of many fires[4] and the main reason for NFPA’s concern resulting in UL1449 in 1986 and subsequent revisions in 1998 and 2009. Properly designed TVSS devices must not fail catastrophically, resulting in the opening of a thermal fuse or something equivalent that only disconnects MOV devices."
 
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