Emergency service disconnect grounding/bond question
- Thread starter jeepxj
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yatg
Well-known member
For an UG feed the POCO wires will go up the right side gutter and loop over to the upper terminals.
Did you notice that panel has studs and not clamping lugs? You'll need some ring terminal ends or a dual lug kit.
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Good point. I forget about supply chain issues. I would probably postpone my project till I could get exactly what i wanted.
Ya, a bad main breaker is still a pita... whether in the can or main panel. I kinda like my fused disconnect
Some '200A' panels have a 225A breaker available. Are any PoCo's entertaining this size service?per their official load calc: 212A with a single EV charger.
For an UG feed the POCO wires will go up the right side gutter and loop over to the upper terminals.
Did you notice that panel has studs and not clamping lugs? You'll need some ring terminal ends or a dual lug kit.
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yup. 3/8 stud dual luggosss.
bus bar rated to 225a is a thing i've seen. im still 20a short tho.
I was going by your 212A calculation.
I know I can get a 225A QO main breaker, and many of their panels have 225A rated bus.
oh thats just a load calc.
the issue is from the solar side. 21.6kw of panels going up.
there are 2 problems at hand to solve for.
Well started dicking around with a conduit run. what does hive mind think on options:
Im not sure about this as it puts it right onto the window trim. not sure if code will even allow that. I cannot go under the pump control box. there is no room at all under it.
if i go around the high side of the window and in plane with the electrical wall puts me on the trim again.
i got room to bring it down off the trim. but a sweep 90 is too long and puts it off the boards. i'm thinking a piece of flex to bridge between. am i missing a much easier solution?
Im not sure about this as it puts it right onto the window trim. not sure if code will even allow that. I cannot go under the pump control box. there is no room at all under it.
if i go around the high side of the window and in plane with the electrical wall puts me on the trim again.
i got room to bring it down off the trim. but a sweep 90 is too long and puts it off the boards. i'm thinking a piece of flex to bridge between. am i missing a much easier solution?
yatg
Well-known member
can you go underground?
my 3 ac condensers are right in this area. along with sewage and water supply line. its a tight area. even if i came down the left side of the window I hit the basement window.
using the dryer exhaust vent as a reference to the prior photo: garage solar feeds coming in following the radon pipe on the left. going to 90 over to the security camera then pick up where the porch solar feeds come down. then over in a single pipe run over to the window area then the electric wall.
Can you use a PVC jacketted armoured cable? Cable gives infinitely variable bends. It always impresses me how small they can keep the diameter for the ampacity.
Edit: I don't think landing it on the window trim is a problem other than appearances, so long as the window opening isn't compromised. Think of the mess that's otherwise attached to or crossing fascia boards, soffits, etc. Check with AHJ if in doubt.
Edit: I don't think landing it on the window trim is a problem other than appearances, so long as the window opening isn't compromised. Think of the mess that's otherwise attached to or crossing fascia boards, soffits, etc. Check with AHJ if in doubt.
ah i think i have a solution. notch out the 6x6 and send it in on the back side to its panel. but that forces the panel to be on the left side. i gotta do a panel layout.
I guess this is gona turn into my drop point for info in case others decide to embark on this.
#6 solid for all the racking. the question now is can I use a ground bar in 4x4x4 pvc box to combine them into a single #6 to the ATS/solar main panel
#6 solid for all the racking. the question now is can I use a ground bar in 4x4x4 pvc box to combine them into a single #6 to the ATS/solar main panel
well holy **** I found a unicorn I think. I was looking at $90 to $150 for a main frame breaker replacement and $600+ for square D outdoor panel.
NEMA 3r rated
100a main breaker
225a bus rating.
www.leviton.com
someone wanna talk me outta this for my outdoor solar box? @wyliesdiesels ?
NEMA 3r rated
100a main breaker
225a bus rating.
LP210-3B - 20 Space Outdoor Load Center with 100A Main Circuit Breaker - Leviton
Outdoor Load Center with 100A Main Circuit Breaker Factory Installed, 20 Circuits, NEMA 3R Rated. Includes Enclosure and Door Only
someone wanna talk me outta this for my outdoor solar box? @wyliesdiesels ?
I still worry that Leviton is going exit that market and the users are left with another Trilliant panel that breakers are hard to come by & a very high price when you do find them. If you do get it, buy spare breakers. Trilliant was a SQ D product that they discontinued, all non metallic panels, & proprietary breakers.
even if i buy an entire backup set of breakers im still cheaper than square D.
Innovate1
Well-known member
When I bonded the gas and water lines in my 2003 build the plumber looked at me with a wierd look and thought it was a safety issue having it bonded.Yes. All metal plumbing needs to be bonded. Its to prevent it from becoming energized. The bonding allows the breaker of the offending circuit to open and clear the fault current.
Ive seen what happens when plumbing isnt bonded.... have a i got a story for you...
Had a LL call years ago about tenants getting shocked when they touched the washer or a metal hose bib at one of her properties...
Took me a whole day of searching and then another to nail it down.
First thing i noticed was the water line wasnt bonded. When i bonded it to the meter main right above it, I got an arc and a breaker tripped (it was a shitsco panel).
So, then I knew the plumbing was energized but had to find where. This was a single family house that had been added onto and split into 2 units. (Oh boy; there was some other really questionable wiring like cordage running through the space between first and second floor to feed the detached garage sub-panel via overhead drop, garage subpanel was bonded despite having 4-wires, dryer receptacle was installed out in the weather, was 4-wire but connected as 3-wire etc)
So through my searching i discovered the gas stove and refrigerator on the addition unit, were electrified also.... this started to get interesting.... finally i discovered that the ground terminal on the receptacle for the fridge and stove was energized.
Pulled the receptacle out of the j box but found nothing suspect.
Righ then i knew someone had ran an NM staple through the NM at some point in the wall.
But the EGC at the panel for this circuit was connected to the neutral bar.....So that told me there was a splice somewhere and the EGC lost its connection at some point.
This particular circuit actually fed stuff on both units so would be a nightmare to find...
So off to demo some sheetrock to search. I didnt want to be responsible for the drywall so the LL had her handyman come over to start ripping sheetrock out.
We tore quit a bit out but i couldnt find the staple.
LL didnt want to keep going so i just disconnected the EGC from the receptacle, told her to plug the stove and fridge in elsewhere, dont use the receptacle and that she would need to have me or someone come back to find the issue.
This was a fairly large 2 story house on one side and single story on the other for the second unit.
Wouldve been a ***** to find the problem and with active tenants living in the unit im guessing the LL never bothered to dig further...
As for finding the offending staple I have used tdr to get some idea of the location. Saves a lot of work when the wires are buried. Found a junction box hidden in a kitchen cabinet soffit that way.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
sounds like the plumber wasnt an apprentice... how could it be a safety issue with it being bonded? makes no sense
beemerphile
Well-known member
Is your meter reader a midget?
Innovate1
Well-known member
He was quite experienced, in fact the head of a small plumbing company, and did a good job on the plumbing. Not sure why he thought bonding would be an issue. Maybe it was not regularly done in this area at the time.
best i can tell they measured meter height with the trench still open.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
The opposite is actually a safety issue.
Imagine the gas line not being bonded, becomes energized then someone goes to work on the gas line they shut the gas off but there’s still a little gas in the line. They disconnect a pipe get a spark which could ignite the gas
Code is written in blood. sadly.
sticker to 225a, main at 100a. this lil guy saved me a few hundred easy. which means my AHJ will say no, white breakers actually are only rated to 10.0 amps and thus you need to pull in 3 phase 7.6kv. or something equally costly.
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