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Epoxy-Coat my Winter Application

fuzzymoto

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I learned quite a bit from this site when I was choosing my new garage flooring system, so I promised myself when I was done, I'd do a full write-up on my experience. I apologize if there's quite a bit of detail, but hopefully it will help someone else.

The Choice:
My garage is new, approx 25-feet x 30-feet, insulated and heated. The slab and foundation were poured 7-months ago. Light car work, no welding and no real chemicals or solvents unless you count lawn mower fuel/oil. I do run real sticky tires on my car, so I was concerned about that.

This application took place in December in the northeast in 30-degree temps in a heated garage.

I decided that before any vehicles were on the slab, I wanted to seal it now when the cleaning process would hopefully be easier and the garage is empty. I had concerns about every kind of flooring system, but knowing I didn't want to do it over and over again, I decided to try to get a system that will stand up over time. After doing my research, I decided against water-based epoxies, urethane coatings, and clear coat epoxies, just because they didn't seem durable over the long haul. I decided against VCT-tile simply because I didn't want the tile-installation hassles/complexities of glue-ing down tile to my floor, or the potential problems of tire marking. I decided against Race Deck simply because of the cost. I'm also sort of holding that sort of system in reserve should the Epoxy floor go bad in the future.

In the end the single-coat application of Epoxy-Coat, along with the long term durability I found in my research made it the clear choice for me. The price was right, the product looked good, and they happily answered all of my questions.

Supplies:
I ordered 1 Epoxy-Coat full-kit, 1 half-kit, 1 extra pound of chips and then purchased 2 roller frames and some extension poles @ Home Depot. Since each kit came with chips, anti-skid, roller, mixer blade, squeege and cut-in brush, it worked out well. I also purchased some extra Muriatic Acid at Home Depot just in case.

Preparation:
I spent a few hours with a paint scraper removing drywall-spakle, paint drips and any other surface debris, and swept & vacuumed the garage thoroughly. I put tape over my floor drain to protect it from the surface prep acid.

I wet the surface and working in small sections at a time I used a garden sprayer to spray on the Epoxy-Coat surface prep/water mix. DO follow the instructions for mixing (including sequence and water temp)--this stuff is dangerous so protect your eyes and skin. Mine did not foam or bubble extensively in most areas, so I scrubbed and re-applied and even applied some of the diluted Muriatic acid to be safe. In the end, short of diamond-grinding, I did the best I was able to do. I used about 4 large boxes of baking soda and sprinkled it over the surface to neutralize the acid, then used a garden hose and triple rinsed the surface. I followed all of this with a pressure washing to remove any last debris or contamination, and swept out any remaining water with a broom & squeege.

I ran a de-humidifier in the garage for the week between preparation and application. I also ran the forced-air heat with a thermostat setting of about 70F to help dry the area and to help get the slab temperature up to at least the 50F minimum temp for application. I did monitor the floor & air temps to be sure I was ok.

At Epoxy-Coat's recommendation, I filled the expansion cracks with acrylic caulk and did my best to also fill any small cracks with acrylic caulk. I let this dry for about 3 days before the Epoxy-Coat application.

Finally I put small wooden strips under the garage door to attempt to get a clean line at the garage door, without getting epoxy stuck to the garage door rubber weather seal.

Application preparation:
Knowing how messy this stuff can be, I setup an old tarp in a hallway leading to the garage. I setup two of the epoxy coat buckets, one for pre-mixing the Part-A mix and one for mixing the epoxy, each with their own cordless-drill mixing blade. I setup my rollers, extension poles, extension pole squeege and cut in brushes with containers to hold them once they had been used. I took two pieces of plywood and drove multiple screws (about 12 in each) through them to make spikes, and screwed an old pair of shoes to them. DO make spike shoes, you'll need them. Be sure to use shoes that are easy on/off (like clogs) and be sure to use plywood and screws that won't break or chip off into your fresh epoxy.

I marked the single-batch side of my measuring stick so we didn't get confused mixing our batch sizes (one side has marks for a double-batch). Be sure to also charge up your cordless drill batteries (2) since the mixing will wear at least one of them out in mid application.

Planning the application:
The supplied measuring stick creates a batch of about 100 sq ft. You need to map out your application sections BEFORE you start. I figured out the total number of batches my 1.5 kits would make (in my case it was 6) and divided my garage into 6 sections, each about 25 feet by 4.5 feet. This was the most confusing part for me, figuring out how large a section to do with each batch and not have too much or too little epoxy mixture. I marked my sections at each end with some painters tape. I also divided my chips and my anti-skid sand equally into 6-bags each for the 6-sections above to keep the application as even as possible.

Application of Epoxy-Coat:
I opened all of my Part A containers and dumped them into one bucket and pre-mixed this for 3 minutes. Then using the measuring stick, I poured Part B to the first line and Part A to the second line (2-parts A to 1-part B with Part B going in first), and mixed this with the second mixer blade for 3 minutes. I then quickly poured the entire container on the floor and frantically cut in the edges with the cut in brush. It didn't help that our first section had the furnace and hot-water heater as obstacles to cut around. I then squeege'd the Epoxy around the entire section. It helped a lot to have the wife continue holding the mixing bucket upside-down to get the last drips out on the floor (this stuff moves slow). I followed this with the roller which really starts to make the floor look nice as it evens out the color. We then repeated the mixing process and applied Epoxy to the 2nd section (cut, squeege, roll). I then donned the spike shoes and walked on the 2nd section to re-roll, apply the chips and apply the sand to the first section. This is why you need the spikes--this and when you get to the last section you'll find yourself painted into a corner otherwise. I tossed the chips and sand up as high as possible to make the application random. We repeated this process until the floor was complete. In the end whether it was because of the outside temp & humidity or something else, we had considerably more time to work the epoxy than I expected. We had plenty of time to cut-in, squeege, roll, re-roll and chip with no panic and no premature hardening, although we never let it sit in the bucket for more than a minute or two---they say this is when it will harden the fastest. I also ended up with a medium chip application and a LOT of chips and sand remaining...probably didn't need the extra pound of chips, but I do have another floor to do in the spring so I'm sure they'll get used.

Clean-up:
We dumped any remaining part A or B into a bucket and dumped our cut-in brushes, squeege & rollers in the mix to harden and throw out. Despite our careful and documented mixing, we had more Part B remaining at the end than I was comfortable with. I reviewed the wife's video tape and each batch was accurate. Not sure why we had leftover Part B but we did. I will warn you that Part A is forever. If not hardened with Part B, it remains incredibly sticky, doesn't wash off and doesn't dry. I've now had the Part A mixing blade outside through rain and snow for several weeks and it's still sticky.

Dry time:
I checked the following morning and the floor seemed to be drying, but still soft enough to see a finger print if you pushed hard. We continued running the dehumidifier and furnace set at 70F.

Disaster strikes:
Mother nature doesn't seem to care much about months of research, weeks of preparation, hundreds of dollars and a day of meticulous application. While away from home, we had a 1-inch per hour rainstorm on top of 10-inches of snow and 40MPH winds. With only 1-day drying time on epoxy that already seemed to be drying slowly, this drove water under the garage door (wooden strips unfortunately still in place) and it pooled at my taped over floor drain. This created a stain around the drain and in two paths coming in from the door. Not being sure what to do, I decided to walk out barefoot to un-tape the drain. This worked well until I go close to the wet part and sure enough the epoxy was still soft enough to stick to my feet. As you can imagine the scene was not pretty. Scampering around barefoot trying to towel up water and not damage soft epoxy. In the end the stain wouldn't come out and I did make a few comical permanent foot-prints in the epoxy.


*** I hit the 1000 character limit so I'll add a 2nd post to complete the story below the pictures ***
 

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fuzzymoto

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Disaster solved:
After speaking with Epoxy_Coat, they recomended Xylene to remove the stain. I waited about a week for the epoxy to harden completely (it hardened VERY slowly), and Xylene removed the stains form the dirty water easily, unfortunately it also removed the gloss of the Epoxy-Coat and made that area look dull, flat and different form the rest of the garage. The wonderful customer service people at Epoxy-Coat were nice enough to send me a repair-kit with some more Epoxy-Coat, mixing bucket & tools. After the Xylene I wiped the floor with water, dried it, sanded it with 100-grit, wiped with water and dried it again. The repair kit arrived a few days later and I mixed and repaired the problem area following the same procedure as above. The only difference I noted was that the Part A was super thick and really hard to work with even after pre-mixing and mixing in Part B. Not sure if it was just cold or what the problem was. This made it much harder to spread/roll and made the chips stand out a little more in some areas. This however worked out perfectly because this area will be the wettest and most slippery area of the floor so the anti-skid provided by the re-application couldn't be more perfect. Problem solved, and this time it dried rock-hard in less than 48-hours.

I'm now leaving the floor to harden and cure for at least 2 or 3 weeks before I park the cars on it and start to use it. It honestly looks so nice I hate to get it dirty! The floor looks great, feels very solid and durable, and in the end it was actually somewhat fun to apply. As I mentioned above I plan to do another section of floor in a new out building this spring. Of course I can't say how this floor will hold up under two cars with road salt, cinders and dirt--but based on what it looks and feels like, I'm pretty sure it will do well. I will of course try to update this thread as time passes.

Based on everything I've seen and done, I'd highly recommend Epoxy-Coat flooring. Their product and customer service are first rate.


Hopefully this helps out someone else still planning out their floor. I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.
 
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fuzzymoto

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Awesome writeup!

Just curious... Did you seal the chips?

No actually Epoxy-Coat is a 1-coat process so there isn't a clear coat finish coat or anything like that to seal. The chips get broadcast into the base coat. Some of the chips sink in more than others. It gives it a nice look, and the chips combined with the sand give it a real nice no-slip profile.
 

thegarageguy

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Please udate us on its reliability in 6-8 months. No offense, but I can't imagine any one layer system resisting any staining or delamination. Let us know.
 
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fuzzymoto

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Please udate us on its reliability in 6-8 months. No offense, but I can't imagine any one layer system resisting any staining or delamination. Let us know.

You bet...I'll be watching it carefully, especially under the tires I run on my car and yes I'll update the site. I'll also be introcuding 2 cars into the garage at the worst possible time, cold weather, salt, cinders, anti-skid and a wife who's never had a garage (or washer her car much). This was one of the reasons I wanted it to cure for a few weeks.

I'm lucky enough to have a chemist in the family that also gave Epoxy-Coat a careful review for me before I decided. Lots of good data @ http://www.epoxy-coat.com/u350.php


No offense taken. The single coat systems actually made a lot of sense to me after my research. Keep in mind it's a thick single coat, much thicker than paint. I did the Home Depot type of floor in my other garage and it failed under the tires in a week. I have a neighbor that did the Lowe's Quickcrete system and it failed under tires in a month. I can tell you visually and tactile-y the Epoxy-Coat seems very different....but I agree, only time will tell.

Check out: http://www.epoxy-coat.com/dontclear.php

For their discussion of single-layer systems versus clear-coat systems.
 
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fuzzymoto

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You REALLY need to seal the chips!


Perhaps with wolverine coating floor systems you do need to seal the chips. According to the manufacturer of Epoxy-Coat you do not, in fact they recomend against clear-coat based systems. I confirmed this earlier with their customer service and this is from their web site.... (makes sense to me)

=======

Single Application...

Its true the least amount of coats per application, THE BETTER! Why? You remove the variable of inter-coat delimitation. Multiple coats do not bond (between coats) nearly as well as the bonding throughout a single thick chemical cure application. This is why Epoxy-Coat is designed to be a single application.


Thickness...

Clear coats sound great, however; a clear coat is typically only 2 mils DFT in thickness. When applied to a flake chip system it leaves only 2 mils of protection before you wear out the clear coat.


Slip Resistance...

When you apply a clear coat to a floor, it reduces the coefficient of friction. The floor becomes slippery because it covers up the natural slip resistant properties associated with flake chips or aluminum oxide. To counter the slipperiness, you will need to apply aluminum oxide in the clear-coat application. This, unfortunately, will wear out much quicker than flake chips will or aluminum oxide in the Epoxy-Coat application. As it wears, it will leave small permanent dark marks on the top of the aluminum oxide particles. 2 mils DFT of clear coat is not suitable to hold #20 aluminum oxide without the risk of coming out so you will need a maximum #36.


Yellowing...

All clear coats yellow over time. Only two component aliphatic Polyurethane Enamel or Epoxy-Coat Cycloaliphatic clears (in a do-it-yourself kit form) resist yellowing from ultraviolet rays to an acceptable level.


Odor...

Polyurethane clear coatings are not 0% VOC (Volatile Organic Compound) coatings; therefore, hazardous odors may be present, which can cause untold problems.


Cycloaliphatic Epoxy...

When a single coat of Cycloaliphatic epoxy is applied over 9 mil DFT with an exposed flake chip system, you have a floor that is high gloss, permanently slip resistant and durable for decades throughout the thickness of the coating. It will resist yellowing and the threat of inter-coat delimitation is eliminated. Aluminum oxide can be added to this coat with more security (due to the fact that the coating is thicker).


Re-coating...

When re-coating clear coats, you have to re-coat the entire floor with the base color first, then a top coat of clear... if not, you won’t have an even new-looking floor.

Epoxy-Coat is sold and can be used as a clear top-coat, these points are made as helpful insight.


Epoxy-Coat has the advantage over polyurethane clears in that it applies 5x

thicker per coat creating a more glossy appearance.

======

As you can see I didn't just decide to not clear coat the floor. The system is designed to NOT need a clear coat.
 

gregs

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Just to throw something else into the mix. I have seen several epoxy companies sell and recomend the same wax that you use on VCT (like at the grocery store)to be applied over your epoxy after it has dried and come to full cure. My experience with this wax is that it holds up really well to normal use and spills. And if it does get damaged or to dirty looking it can be stripped and reapplied. Another benefit to it is that it adds a anti-slip coating as well as a really nice gloss. Some of the drawbacks are that it will stain from tires parked on it for a long time and harsh chemicals like gasoline will attack it. But if you dont mind parking on carpet squares and being a little carefull, you can add a shine for less than $15 a gallon
 
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fuzzymoto

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Just to throw something else into the mix. I have seen several epoxy companies sell and recomend the same wax that you use on VCT (like at the grocery store)to be applied over your epoxy after it has dried and come to full cure. My experience with this wax is that it holds up really well to normal use and spills. And if it does get damaged or to dirty looking it can be stripped and reapplied. Another benefit to it is that it adds a anti-slip coating as well as a really nice gloss. Some of the drawbacks are that it will stain from tires parked on it for a long time and harsh chemicals like gasoline will attack it. But if you dont mind parking on carpet squares and being a little carefull, you can add a shine for less than $15 a gallon

Epoxy-Coat sells a cleaning colution but I've seen no mention or reccomendation of waxing it. If you can't tell by my terrible photos, this stuff has no shortage of gloss. It is extremely glossy/shiny on its own so far. Again I guess time will tell. My vehicle has super-sticky tires so we'll see what they do also....I'll have to pass on the carpet squares...seems more likely to trap moisture, plus they'd have to be pretty big squares to convince my wife to line up all 4 tires on carpet every time she parks...:}
 

gregs

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Hey I was just adding some more information to the post to let others know of different options I came across. As for the carpet squares, I was more refering to people that had a classic car or something that stays parked in the same place for an extended time. My floor is more of a shop than a garage, as the only thing parked in it is my current project (36 ford pickup) and a lot of tools.
 
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fuzzymoto

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Hey I was just adding some more information to the post to let others know of different options I came across. As for the carpet squares, I was more refering to people that had a classic car or something that stays parked in the same place for an extended time. My floor is more of a shop than a garage, as the only thing parked in it is my current project (36 ford pickup) and a lot of tools.

Oh I get it....I was just trying to picture what it would take to get my wife to line-up on carpet once or twice a day. No classic cars for me, at least not yet. Good luck with the '36
 

connorB

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New Member Today,

Sorry that happen! I'm NACE certified as a coating inspector level 1. Concrete floors are a passion. The surface temp. needed to be 50 degrees and raising. 50 and below slows down to stopping the curing process. Try not to park on for 20 to 30 days for total cure. The cold weather even slows the curing down. How is your gloss retention? If cures dull flat than the surface temp. was to low.

Glenn
 

connorB

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mandeville,LA.
Your tires will ecth the floor even if you have a 2 part epoxy system. Any coating thats not a 2 part system will be lifted my the chemical in the tires. Even on a epoxy or a aliphatic urethane system it ecthes it in a short of time. It will leave a dull tire print. My floors have epoxy sealer/primer, 100% solids epoxy as a intermediate and aliphatic urethane as a finish coat. This is a airplane hanger tuff system and it stills leave a dull ecth print.

Glenn
 
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fuzzymoto

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Thanks Glen...welcome to the board. The surface temp was above 50F. The garage is insulated and heated and the temp was raised well in advance of application of the 2-part Epoxy. I monitored the surface temps for 7 days prior and 14-days after application. Actually it's like glass as far as gloss is concerned (see photos). We'll see on the tire marks. As long as it doesn't lift off I'm sure I can live with it....and yes it will probably be about 30-days of curing or more before I park a car on it.
 

connorB

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I'm glad its working out for you. You know the garage is all about the floor. When its all said and done, check out my web -site to see if you want be come a garage freak. www.garagefreaks.com. GREAT job on the floor! Now your in to garage floor business, your knowledge is superior.

Glenn
 

thegarageguy

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I'm glad its working out for you. You know the garage is all about the floor. When its all said and done, check out my web -site to see if you want be come a garage freak. www.garagefreaks.com. GREAT job on the floor! Now your in to garage floor business, your knowledge is superior.

Glenn



Your website is only one page and only font. Youmay want to fix that before advertising it over these boards.
 
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fuzzymoto

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I assume you probably fixed it because the web site works ok for me. The floor has made a big difference but I have miles to go in the whole addition, and I'm afraid the garage comes in pretty late in the budget.....but I'll get it done eventually. I'm taking the attitude of doing it right the first time...so in the end it will be nice.

Yes you learn a lot when you do this sort of project. In some sadistic sense it was fun and I am looking forward to the out building we'll be Epoxy-Coating in the spring....and no I doubt you'll find me in the garage floor business any time soon.
 

WolverineCoatings

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Hey Fuzzy... It's going to take me some time to answer all of those items you listed. I'm going to go for the 'Readers Digest' version here. Basically, it boils down to how a company makes sales. Epoxy-Coat is a side-business of an applicator and NOT a manufacturer. Last time we checked, they did not have any manufacturing capability, laboratory, or chemists on staff. That would mean that their knowledge comes from an applicator point of view and not a chemical point of view. In general, applicators think in terms of providing durability to match a warranty period. We are going for a 'forever' approach.

We recommend sealing the flakes because our products are so durable and we want the flakes to last as long as the rest of the coating. The flakes are made from vinyl... there are only a few of us in the country that make flakes and we all use vinyl. Some of us use Barium Sulfate as a filler and some use Calcium Carbonate. Barium Sulfate is more expensive, non-toxic, inert, and makes a more durable flake... so... we use it. Vinyl is not as durable as our semi-ceramic fluoromodified AHC epoxy systems. For use, if you wanted to compare the stain resistance and durability to common items you could liken the flakes to sheet vinyl and epoxy to glass (except it is flexible). Vinyl is going to stain and wear faster than our epoxy...

You seem really knowledable about their company. Maybe you can clear some things up for us. you made mention that they have a 100% solids clear. We have had people come to us for 100% solids clears because they've said that Epoxy-Coat doesn't really have one. One person told Budget Bob that they said they had one... then discouraged it, and then when they insisted on purchasing the clear; Epoxy-Coat could not supply it. So, do you know if they really have one or not? Obviously, that answers alot of questions.

Basically, we're selling an extremely durable product. The flakes are the 'weak link' so to speak and we make the strongest flake on the market. So, by sealing the flakes you design a system that will last. Since the preparation of the concrete is the biggest part of the job. It just makes sense to recommend sealing the flakes... unless you don't have a product that will work.

I'll get back on your other post in the next week or so...
Eric
 
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fuzzymoto

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Hey Fuzzy... It's going to take me some time to answer all of those items you listed. I'm going to go for the 'Readers Digest' version here. Basically, it boils down to how a company makes sales. Epoxy-Coat is a side-business of an applicator and NOT a manufacturer. Last time we checked, they did not have any manufacturing capability, laboratory, or chemists on staff. That would mean that their knowledge comes from an applicator point of view and not a chemical point of view. In general, applicators think in terms of providing durability to match a warranty period. We are going for a 'forever' approach.

We recommend sealing the flakes because our products are so durable and we want the flakes to last as long as the rest of the coating. The flakes are made from vinyl... there are only a few of us in the country that make flakes and we all use vinyl. Some of us use Barium Sulfate as a filler and some use Calcium Carbonate. Barium Sulfate is more expensive, non-toxic, inert, and makes a more durable flake... so... we use it. Vinyl is not as durable as our semi-ceramic fluoromodified AHC epoxy systems. For use, if you wanted to compare the stain resistance and durability to common items you could liken the flakes to sheet vinyl and epoxy to glass (except it is flexible). Vinyl is going to stain and wear faster than our epoxy...

You seem really knowledable about their company. Maybe you can clear some things up for us. you made mention that they have a 100% solids clear. We have had people come to us for 100% solids clears because they've said that Epoxy-Coat doesn't really have one. One person told Budget Bob that they said they had one... then discouraged it, and then when they insisted on purchasing the clear; Epoxy-Coat could not supply it. So, do you know if they really have one or not? Obviously, that answers alot of questions.

Basically, we're selling an extremely durable product. The flakes are the 'weak link' so to speak and we make the strongest flake on the market. So, by sealing the flakes you design a system that will last. Since the preparation of the concrete is the biggest part of the job. It just makes sense to recommend sealing the flakes... unless you don't have a product that will work.

I'll get back on your other post in the next week or so...
Eric

Eric...actually it was bobren4 that asked about the clear coats. My choice is made and my floor is down. Perhaps he's debating his flooring choices.

I read the thread you describe. According to Epoxy-Coat customer service and their web site, they don't have a clear coat, and they go out of their way to recommend against it. "One person told Budget Bob"...with that sort of hearsay chatter as a source, I doubt I'd pay much attention to it anyway. Check out epoxy-coat.com for their explanations and data.

As I mentioned I'm lucky enough to have a chemist in the family so I wasn't really worried about who is on the Epoxy-Coat staff or not...again it's pretty much hearsay anyway what you've heard about their staff. It all made perfect sense to me. I trust my own research for my own application, and for my time and money, I chose Epoxy-Coat. I have no vested interest in their company or any other company. My thread and my interest is meant to help others applying a similar Epoxy flooring.


Now with that said, I realize as a competitor to Epoxy-Coat, you have a vested interest here. The more doubt you can cause, the better it is for your business. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable attempting to do what you're doing, but I guess it's your business and your deal, not mine.

I can only assume you wouldn't be upset if you had a thread about your floor systems, and someone from a competitor joined in to say that a friend of a friend of a friend said they heard you had gypsies and wolves on your staff pretending to be chemists (not that there's anything wrong with gypsies or wolves), I suspect you'd not be happy.

I don't truley believe you have an interest in anything but your business when "contributing" to this thread. I'm sure your product is just fine, it just seems to me that your motives here are less than genuine and your thinly veiled sales-pitches come off as fairly sneaky, oddly depserate, and just plain inappropriate in my opinion.

My floor is down. I'm happy with my choice and based on my experience I plan to do another Epoxy-Coat floor in the future.
 
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FFPL

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Disaster solved:
After speaking with Epoxy_Coat, they recomended Xylene to remove the stain. I waited about a week for the epoxy to harden completely (it hardened VERY slowly.

Problem solved, and this time it dried rock-hard in less than 48-hours.
Are you sure you mixed enough of part B in you initial mixes (you mention you had leftovers) ? Could this be an explanation as to why it went off so slowly ? and your patching mix went hard much quicker ? I just put down an epoxy floor (42 gallons) and it was always hard (not sticky) within 24 hours. It's cold here in the north east so I was expecting it to cure slower; which it did as the manufacturer indicates that it should be tack free after 12-16 hours. Different product though and I did a primer and clear coat.

Also your note about part A being very thick. Did you let the kits sit in a warm room for a period of time ? I found when I did mine this helped. Good to see it worked out well for you and excellent write up.
 
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fuzzymoto

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Are you sure you mixed enough of part B in you initial mixes (you mention you had leftovers) ? Could this be an explanation as to why it went off so slowly ? and your patching mix went hard much quicker ? I just put down an epoxy floor (42 gallons) and it was always hard (not sticky) within 24 hours. It's cold here in the north east so I was expecting it to cure slower; which it did as the manufacturer indicates that it should be tack free after 12-16 hours. Different product though and I did a primer and clear coat.

Also your note about part A being very thick. Did you let the kits sit in a warm room for a period of time ? I found when I did mine this helped. Good to see it worked out well for you and excellent write up.

Thank you....My wife was nice enough to video the whole process, including zooming in on the measuring stick w/each batch as I mixed. We reran the video and every batch looked really accurate...although I agree this and temperatures may explain the slow cure and extra Part B. Because we were using a measuring stick...I guess It could have been off by a tiny bit not by much....and the video backs that up. When the patch kit was delivered, it sat outside for an hour and it was cold. I did let it sit inside near a heat duct for a few hours before application, but you're right it was still probably thick from the cold temps when I applied. I do think that the area not affected by water was hard in about 48 hours, but I think the water affected that area and as a result it didn't cure properly for days. Thankfully it all came out OK in the end but it was certainly a learning process and a bit dissapointing after the long research/preparation/application process.
 
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fuzzymoto

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Thanks for pointing that out to us. I am having some difficulty with the site being able to be viewed using Firefox. It is perfectly viewable using IE. I am currently working on the issue. :thumbup:

Worked OK for me using IE.
 

boiler7904

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Great write up fuzzymoto.

On the sticky mixing paddles. I did my floor in Sept 2006 with Rust Oleum Pro. I came across the mixing paddle this past fall and it was still wet and gooey.
 
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fuzzymoto

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Great write up fuzzymoto.

On the sticky mixing paddles. I did my floor in Sept 2006 with Rust Oleum Pro. I came across the mixing paddle this past fall and it was still wet and gooey.

Thank...yes Part A seems to be sticky forever.
 

WolverineCoatings

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Oct 22, 2007
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Spartanburg, SC
Eric...actually it was bobren4 that asked about the clear coats. My choice is made and my floor is down. Perhaps he's debating his flooring choices.
whoops... I was in a hurry getting ready for my week of flights...

I read the thread you describe. According to Epoxy-Coat customer service and their web site, they don't have a clear coat, and they go out of their way to recommend against it. "One person told Budget Bob"...with that sort of hearsay chatter as a source, I doubt I'd pay much attention to it anyway. Check out epoxy-coat.com for their explanations and data.
That is why I was asking you to clarify it. Obviously, you're not going to recommend to seal chips if you don't have a product to do it.

As I mentioned I'm lucky enough to have a chemist in the family so I wasn't really worried about who is on the Epoxy-Coat staff or not...again it's pretty much hearsay anyway what you've heard about their staff. It all made perfect sense to me. I trust my own research for my own application, and for my time and money, I chose Epoxy-Coat. I have no vested interest in their company or any other company. My thread and my interest is meant to help others applying a similar Epoxy flooring.
I'm glad you have a chemist that you trust. What I am explaining is SO basic that ANY person who has even taken Organic Chemistry in college (who passed) will give you the same answer. Vinyl is a lower crosslink density material and is more likely to stain than 100% solids epoxy. Please ask your chemist...

Now with that said, I realize as a competitor to Epoxy-Coat, you have a vested interest here. The more doubt you can cause, the better it is for your business. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable attempting to do what you're doing, but I guess it's your business and your deal, not mine.

I can only assume you wouldn't be upset if you had a thread about your floor systems, and someone from a competitor joined in to say that a friend of a friend of a friend said they heard you had gypsies and wolves on your staff pretending to be chemists (not that there's anything wrong with gypsies or wolves), I suspect you'd not be happy.

I don't truley believe you have an interest in anything but your business when "contributing" to this thread. I'm sure your product is just fine, it just seems to me that your motives here are less than genuine and your thinly veiled sales-pitches come off as fairly sneaky, oddly depserate, and just plain inappropriate in my opinion.

My floor is down. I'm happy with my choice and based on my experience I plan to do another Epoxy-Coat floor in the future.
It's natural to be skeptical. Most companies are all about marketing and less about the actual quality of the product. As many on this board has already stated... we need to work on our marketing... and... our products rock. Epoxy-Coat is not a competitor of Wolverine Coatings at this point. We are an industrial company who is just investigating the residential DIY garage floor market. We are not selling to the general public anywhere but on this board. Furthermore, you'll notice that I did not recommend that you purchase product from us to seal the chips... I just said... seal them!

My advice to you IS genuine and anyone who has dealt with me will vouch that I tell it like it is. We are known as a reputable company and I am known as a reputable individual.

Obviously, if this was about my company versus EC I'd just let this thread die without responding. This whole discussion boils down to one thing: Vinyl is weaker than 100% solids epoxy... The chips are going to wear out before the epoxy. Protecting the chips makes your garage floor last longer. Buy something and seal the chips... even wax...

Last, any 100% solids epoxy product is better than solvent or water based products.
 
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fuzzymoto

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blah blah blah

.... This whole discussion boils down to one thing: Vinyl is weaker than 100% solids epoxy...

Last, any 100% solids epoxy product is better than solvent or water based products. ...blah blah blah


Eric:
Once again, very helpful to see a sales-pitch for Wolverine in a thread that has nothing to do with your product. If it helps your marketing to invade a thread and try to discount a competing product, (without a representative of Epoxy-Coat here to deflect your fact or fiction), then so be it. In my mind it smacks of desperation, and personally it just seems wrong. But by all means please keep it up. I suspect the more you protest the less it will do for your product or your sales.

This is a public forum dedicated to garage flooring. Personal user experience with a particular product has value to others researching their choices. When you, a person with financial interest in how facts are portrayed, steps into a thread like this, it is simply inappropriate. Believe me, no one out here is naive enough to believe as a seller of garage flooring products, that you don't have anything less than a vested interest in everything you reply to and everything you say. So again please keep it up and keep telling it like YOU think it is..

Thank you for making my point for me. How ironic that for you "this whole thread boils down to...blah blah blah" a statement that is not only conjecture, but simply your opinion...and an opinion that is certainly not universally agreed upon as you would have us believe.

Silly me! I thought this whole thread boiled down to a simple write-up on the winter application of Epoxy-coat on MY garage floor. Thanks for proving it was all just a sales pitch for your product.
 
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mikerosi

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Jan 7, 2008
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3
Yeah, this Wolverine thing is a little annoying. I am a general building contractor in Ca and none of my specialty contractors has ever heard of them. They act like they employ all these "chemists" etc. and that their product is a "highly superior" product that they will sell to the DIYer from their secret stash of commercial product inventory. HOGWASH, this guy appears to be selling "snake oil". I was thinking of using their product but after visiting the web site and listening to Eric`s musings, I will respectively decline. Things just don~t make sense with them.
 

mikerosi

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Jan 7, 2008
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3
Oh and BTW Fuzzymoto, great writeup and I am glad you are happy with your results. Epoxy-coat seems to be a good product with good positive feedback and that`s all you can hope for in the consumer envirement! Mike
 

thegarageguy

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Oct 24, 2007
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NJ
Even though Wolverine pumps his product and mentions his chemicals for nearly every application known to man kind, I think he has a point here. I hate to admit it but what he is saying makes sense. First off I'd be weary of a any single coat process, second, not sealing chips is a bit suspicious. As Wolverine said, it is only vinyl and when left unsealed will eventually stain. I dont think we need to be chemist to figure that one out. Im guessing its a sort of tinted poly eurea or aspartic.......Im guessing, because epoxy on its own would stain, scratch and amber without a poly, but hey, what the hell do I know............I've only been doing this for almost 5 years and only hundreds of floors. Only time will tell, good luck and keep us posted.
 
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fuzzymoto

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Oh and BTW Fuzzymoto, great writeup and I am glad you are happy with your results. Epoxy-coat seems to be a good product with good positive feedback and that`s all you can hope for in the consumer envirement! Mike

Thanks Mike. So far so good and time will tell.
 
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fuzzymoto

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Even though Wolverine pumps his product and mentions his chemicals for nearly every application known to man kind, I think he has a point here. I hate to admit it but what he is saying makes sense. First off I'd be weary of a any single coat process, second, not sealing chips is a bit suspicious. As Wolverine said, it is only vinyl and when left unsealed will eventually stain. I dont think we need to be chemist to figure that one out. Im guessing its a sort of tinted poly eurea or aspartic.......Im guessing, because epoxy on its own would stain, scratch and amber without a poly, but hey, what the hell do I know............I've only been doing this for almost 5 years and only hundreds of floors. Only time will tell, good luck and keep us posted.

Thanks. I'd be surprised if dark colored tiny vinyl chips stain, let alone show that stain but I guess we'll see. Epoxy-Coat is a Cycloaliphatic Epoxy not a tinted poly at all.

Read the info on this page....

http://epoxy-coat.com/dontclear.php

According to them the clear coats will wear out long before the chips or aluminum oxide.

Also I did check references and did find several people very happy with their floors 2 years down the road. I can tell you I've seen and tried a lot of two coat Epoxy floors and none of them came out looking and feeling like the Epoxy-Coat. The floor feels very solid, like a layer of glass (not like a layer of paint).

So far we've cleaned up paint (wet and dried) off the floor with no problem, and one of the plumbers dropped a large pipe wrench from a ladder with no problem's either, not even a dent or nick.

Time will tell. Winter abuse with salt/cinders and ant-skid, floor jacks, jack stands, hot sticky tires....I don't plan to baby the floor. I will report my long-term findings here. If the floor does great, you'll hear. If the floor does awful, you'll hear....again I have no vested interest in Epoxy-coat so you'll get the truth.

We're still a few weeks from parking cars on it, but I'll update the thread (especailly as some of the construction guys use and abuse it.)
 

impalanut

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Apr 14, 2007
Messages
6
I have a floor from epoxy coat, put down by them. They did two coats of epoxy, then chips, and then a thick layer of clear that I would estimate at two millimeters thick (not two mils). I asked about clear coat and they said it wasn't necessary but it would make the floor easier to clean and last longer. I have had a problem with the clear not adhering in about ten areas, each about 4 inches in diameter plus one large area of 4x20 inches. Every time someone came to work on the floor it was someone different and they have still not fixed it adequately. Although the product seems ok, the people they send to work on the floor leave something to be desired. In retrospect, I probably should have done it myself. If I was doing it over again I would have the floor polished and stained.
 
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