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Going to install dense pack cellulose myself and hints from the group?

rlme36

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Feb 17, 2008
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I decided that no one was going to take as much care as I would with installing the insulation, but I wanted to use dense pack cellulose. After much reading on the topic I have found the webbing/fiber mesh used for install in new construction and started to put it up. I also tracked down the mfg of the rental blowers to determine what machine I need to do dense pack and they will rent me the correct unit, its different than the ones at HD or Lowes.

I plan to dense pack the walls and the roof rafters of the storage area above the second floor.

My question is has anyone else done this and are there any gotchas to be on the look out for?

thanks,

rob
 
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trythis

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I will say that netting is good for a while, overhead, but you need to use it overhead, you'll want to back it up with wood. Also be careful not to over pack it especially if you are going over it with drywall.

Do you have access to the roller carver that flattens out the stuff on walls?
 
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rlme36

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I don't have the roller, but I am sure I can come up with something to smooth out the walls. The netting is only temporary until I can get the sheetrock up.
 

trythis

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I would try to rent that roller thing if you are using a wet blower, something that isn't that tool might just make the finished job worse than the most careless installer.
Wait a second...

Is the blower you are renting a wet sprayer? If not, and I were doing it and insulating exterior walls and a sloped ceiling, I would drywall first except the top foot, no net, pump up to the point when the insulation is blowing back too much, net over that last foot, slice a small hole in the net, pump full, then finish the drywall. Firebreaks make this a two step process per wall though.

I would prefer the wet method because the dry will eventually settle in the walls, you cant use wet on a flat or even severely sloped roof.
NOTE: let the wet stuff dry before installing drywall over it! It wont work as insulation if its wet, it wont mold if its wet, but it would be worse than no insulation.

I would drywall one side of every interior wall and wet spray to that and the inside of every exterior wall, which would already have an exterior surface. The wet spray activates the glue in the insulation preventing settling and you can get more material in wet than dry because the fibers are compressed by the wetness. And, you dont need the netting! And, you dont have to choke on powder all day! And when you shave back to the studs, the drywall goes on real easy!

The only place I could imagine using that netting (or dry cellulose for that matter) would be in a ceiling or walls that are mostly drywalled and by filling the channels up to the top. For your walls, are you planning to net the whole wall, then fill dry and drywall after? If so, that sounds like a really hard way to do this. Even worse would be netting a hole ceiling and then trying to push your drywall against that on a ceiling! No thanks!

This got me wondering, will you have someone loading the hopper? Someone shaving the walls (if wet), and reloading the hopper with your over spray and shavings?

I watched two separate companies do my building all day for every day they were here. Those machines throw a lot of insulation and are flat out exhausting to operate even for the guys that do this everyday. They machines they use are on a truck. (HUGE) Anyone doing this alone would be in great shape climbing up and down ladders and hauling insulation around and tugging on hoses.

Every one of my insulated interior walls (bath, shop and laundry for sound) were drywalled on one side and wet sprayed. All of the exterior walls were wet sprayed against brick.
My ceiling, a flat roof, was pumped in dry between the ceiling and roof except in a few strips to make it easy to shove the tube down the 20 foot wide channels between rafters. They used the netting to cover these openings but only after the long tubes were filled. After that they went back, added the nets, then pack filled into small holes cut into the net. I then had to go back over the areas with ceiling boards and if they had packed too hard, I would never have gotten the boards in.

I did the ceiling this way to accommodate the insulation installers. I hung my own ceiling and drywalled my own walls, so I could do it however I (they) wanted and make it easier and thus cheaper for the insulation installers. Personally, I wouldn't even bother doing insulation on my own, It would have cost me the same money to buy the insulation at a big box store as it cost to pay for installation and would have taken me 10 or 20 times longer than the guys that do it every day. I didn't have a job when this was getting done, but if I did and I took the few days off to watch and make sure they did it right, I still would have saved money over doing it myself.

How much are you installing? Are the rafters and studs standard width apart? My ceilings were not, requiring blown in. Cellulose is the best, but if you are only doing a small amount you might consider the recycled blue jean stuff. It installs like fiberglass sections, with all the benefits of cellulose.

Don't get me wrong, here, I am all about doing things myself. On my 96 year old building that we converted to a home and shop, I tore off (85,000 lbs :shocking:), restructured, re-decked, and re-roofed a 5700 square foot roof, by myself over 10 months...Yes this SUCKED but it wasn't in the budget so I had to do it. This required relaying the brick parapet walls that ran the 330 linear feet of the building's walls. I tuck pointed the front wall. I installed my own radiant tubing, framed and drywalled the house portion, and dug my own footings for some of the walls inside with a shovel. I wired and hung the ductwork for a multizone geothermal HVAC system because I didn't like the way the contractor wanted it done. I cut and installed my own 15 foot I-beam lintels over new garage doors cut into the brick walls. I would have done my own electric and plumbing if I could have legally. I seriously understand DIY and doing the roof and masonry probably save $80,000, but...

The insulation installation just wasn't practical or financially beneficial to do myself. For you, it may be, but since you asked for hints, my final hint would be to hire it out.
 
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trythis

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I just looked at your build thread and for the second floor:
In your situation, if you are going dry, I would install all the sloped drywall up to the flat ceiling and just pump from in the attic peak area. No need to do two sections here or use netting.

Drywall the exterior walls except the last foot and fill. Then drywall the last foot, drywall eight feet of ceiling, fill, drywall the next 8 feet, then fill, and so on till the last foot, and thats the only place you need the net. However, if your making a access hatch , you don't even need the netting. just fill the ceiling from the hatch. Are you venting that last little area of attic to the outside or just completely packing the ceiling?

I will leave the prior post for others curious about my cellulose hints. Not all of it was relevant to your project, but it took so long to wrote that I am not gonna delete it.:deadhorse
 
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rlme36

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I just looked at your build thread and for the second floor:
In your situation, if you are going dry, I would install all the sloped drywall up to the flat ceiling and just pump from in the attic peak area. No need to do two sections here or use netting.

Drywall the exterior walls except the last foot and fill. Then drywall the last foot, drywall eight feet of ceiling, fill, drywall the next 8 feet, then fill, and so on till the last foot, and thats the only place you need the net. However, if your making a access hatch , you don't even need the netting. just fill the ceiling from the hatch. Are you venting that last little area of attic to the outside or just completely packing the ceiling?

I will leave the prior post for others curious about my cellulose hints. Not all of it was relevant to your project, but it took so long to wrote that I am not gonna delete it.:deadhorse


Wow is all I can say. That is a lot of great info on cellulose. I am doing a dry blow, wet at this point would be very messy. Dry will have a bunch of dust but that is easier for me to clean up. The drywall will be done professionally at some point cause I hate hanging rock. If I the garage insulated I can then have it heated in time for this winter. Not working on the cars in that cold again.

I was planning to use the netting on the second floor underneath the collar ties and fill the cavities to the top of them and then some. In theory I could fill that all the way up.

I am dense packing cellulose which will not settle as it will be pumped in at 3.5 pound per cubic foot (or higher), which is actually higher than its natural settling rate.

As far as the machine is concerned and filling it, I'll have help with managing that end so it shouldn't be too bad. The quotes I was given for this project were good prices and they were going to do the exact procedure so even if I get stuck, they could always come blow the walls and ceiling since the manual labor of netting is already done.

thanks again for the rely, I do appreciate it.

rob
 
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trythis

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I would talk to your drywall installer before doing this, they may charge more for having to fight the bulge in your insulation especially if you heavy fill that ceiling.

Instead of just throwing the wallboard up, they have to push it against the insulation for each screw they insert. Otherwise the screw just goes right through the drywall.

If you let that netting be the only thing holding it up for a long time, it can start to fail and you start loosing material, so get the drywall up quick after the insulation goes in. I would still drywall first, though.
 
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rlme36

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I would talk to your drywall installer before doing this, they may charge more for having to fight the bulge in your insulation especially if you heavy fill that ceiling.

Instead of just throwing the wallboard up, they have to push it against the insulation for each screw they insert. Otherwise the screw just goes right through the drywall.

If you let that netting be the only thing holding it up for a long time, it can start to fail and you start loosing material, so get the drywall up quick after the insulation goes in. I would still drywall first, though.


Thats a good point. I"ll touch base with them to see what is easier. I have the netting pretty tight now will glue the netting to the studs as well to give added strength to it. Even though the weather in the NE is pretty nice at the moment, working on the second floor of the building is still damn HOT!
 

jklingel

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Google Robert Riversong (housewright.com, I think). He has been dense packing cellulose for decades. Put the sheet rock on first, then blow it in from the top (if have a double wall construction). His web site has a step-by one it. He is a regular on greenbuildingadvisor.com. GL. j
 
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rlme36

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So in the end, I hung the netting and was able to get my installer of choice lower his price and have him essentially do all the blowing and supply of material for roughly his cost, helped him keep his crew working and saved me $1k off the initial price. Building is really tight and am now getting the sheet rock delivered. being out of work for a decent time has really slowed this project down I have to say.

Really happy with the results, building is quiet and stays in the 70's on the second floor when it was hot out in Aug of last summer amazing the conductive difference compared to open bays.

rob
 
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