Has anyone noticed a drastic decline in Wiha quality?

[bpwoodworking]

I don’t think that is what’s being said or suggested. Rather it has more to do with the company looking to produce a low cost line and therefore choosing a low cost location and likely also short-cutting other aspects of production which reduce the cost a lot and quality along with it. The consumers obviously notice this in the product so if they’re looking for the original quality of that brand the quickest indicator is COO.

That’s a lot different than saying that people in that country can’t produce high quality products.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I don’t think that is what’s being said or suggested. Rather it has more to do with the company looking to produce a low cost line and therefore choosing a low cost location and likely also short-cutting other aspects of production which reduce the cost a lot and quality along with it. The consumers obviously notice this in the product so if they’re looking for the original quality of that brand the quickest indicator is COO.

That’s a lot different than saying that people in that country can’t produce high quality products.

Right, that's the whole point of making something in "the third world". I'm sure the people are more than capable, and the machinery and raw materials can be controlled for. There will be teething problems, but a company capable of setting up a factory from scratch will sort that out as the line begins production.

The whole point of making something in a place like Vietnam is to reduce costs. When the point is reduction of cost, labor is a big part of that along with environmental factors and government related issues from the first world. However, so is the quality of the product. And that's were the suspicion begins. The goal was to lower costs.....

Michelin does not make its premium tires in Cambodia. Typically cheap tires with poor performance come from Cambodia, because the primary reason to make tires there is to minimize all costs and compete at the bottom of the market. Thus is I see "made in cambodia" on a tire, I have been conditioned to associate that with a poor quality tire.

 

[Steve_P]

The reality is that the Vietnamese made Wiha bits did quite well in the Project Farm test; they were one of the best bits across all of the tests, but they were also ~2-3X more expensive than the other brands, and they didn't test 2-3X better. Since bits are highly consumable, cost vs performance means a lot. These are very high-quality bits based on his test results.

There is a strong COO bias with a lot of people here and they automatically associate quality with COO. And I get it. But you could have two identical packages of bits, mark one Germany, and the other Vietnam, and the Vietnamese ones would automatically be junk to some here. The bottom line is that manufacturing labor is very expensive in counties like Germany, and there's no reason an identical product can't be produced in Taiwan or Vietnam at a fraction of the cost. When Milwaukee moved some of their power tool production to Vietnam, I must've missed the revolt here. If the Vietnamese can make power tools, they can make driver bits with the right machines and steel.

50 years ago, "made in Japan" was a joke. 30 years ago, "made in Taiwan" was a joke. Now both countries are highly respected as manufacturers of goods. But the problem is that over time the manufacturing labor becomes too expensive- this has happened to China. Yes, it's still a fraction of what it costs in the US, but if you can make the same product in Vietnam for 20% of the cost, then it's just inevitable that is going to happen.

 

[KnurledNut]

Some may not know that Wiha has their own factory in Vietnam. These tools are manufactured in house.

 

[Robinson1]

Can't say about other stores but the only local bLowes in NJ got Wiha in stock last year & blew it all out... full clearance about 6 months later.

As of today, even 6-8months ago it was all gone. No more Wiha seemed more like an experiment then a commitment.

The couple things I bought... two sets of mini drivers, regular screwdrivers & needlenose iirc were all made in Germany. Certainly nothing stamped with an Asian sources.

Overall I've been happy with the stuff, esp the pliers & mini drivers. Full size drivers have great machining... tips are awesome no doubt but I don't love the handles. ,maybe if they were more uniform in size... feels weird to switch drivers but the quality is definitely on point.

I noticed the same. I bought a couple of the bit sets. They were junk. Stripped a #1 Phillips installing cabinet hinges after the fourth of fifth screw. The T25 lasted less than a pound of deck screws. The magnet in the bit holder was extremely weak. The case was fiddly. Wasn’t impressed.

 

[Steve_P]

Something to keep in mind is that Wiha USA does some weird stuff, and packages and sells products that Wiha Germany doesn't; or they used to do this. Wiha USA would insert USA non Wiha bits into a Taiwan made socket and put a Wiha label on the box, producing something that isn't even in the Wiha catalog, and there's nothing Wiha about it, other than the label. To me this is way more dangerous to their reputation than actually manufacturing a high-quality product in Vietnam that they 100% oversee.

 

[KnurledNut]

I noticed the same. I bought a couple of the bit sets. They were junk. Stripped a #1 Phillips installing cabinet hinges after the fourth of fifth screw. The T25 lasted less than a pound of deck screws. The magnet in the bit holder was extremely weak. The case was fiddly. Wasn’t impressed.

Terminator impact bits from Lowe’s?
Sure the screws weren’t #2 or pozi?
Impact or drill?
How much did the bits cam out?

 

[Robinson1]

Terminator impact bits from Lowe’s?
Sure the screws weren’t #2 or pozi?
Impact or drill?
How much did the bits cam out?

using a 12 volt Bosch drill on the cabinet hinges. Definitely using the right bit.

 

[Robinson1]

Pretty sure they were the terminator bits the ones that were 8 or 9 bits in a small case with a magnetic holder. Think they were $10 on clearance for $5

 

[jimmy12345678]

Right, that's the whole point of making something in "the third world". I'm sure the people are more than capable, and the machinery and raw materials can be controlled for. There will be teething problems, but a company capable of setting up a factory from scratch will sort that out as the line begins production.

The whole point of making something in a place like Vietnam is to reduce costs. When the point is reduction of cost, labor is a big part of that along with environmental factors and government related issues from the first world. However, so is the quality of the product. And that's were the suspicion begins. The goal was to lower costs.....

Michelin does not make its premium tires in Cambodia. Typically cheap tires with poor performance come from Cambodia, because the primary reason to make tires there is to minimize all costs and compete at the bottom of the market. Thus is I see "made in cambodia" on a tire, I have been conditioned to associate that with a poor quality tire.

The lesson that the general public will never learn is that the quest to cut costs and "race to the bottom" will ALWAYS result in a lower quality product from the companies that choose to chase these types of clients, the perpetual "that's too expensive" crowd....

They deserve the low quality **** they get IMO

 

[Steve_P]

The lesson that the general public will never learn is that the quest to cut costs and "race to the bottom" will ALWAYS result in a lower quality product from the companies that choose to chase these types of clients, the perpetual "that's too expensive" crowd....

They deserve the low quality **** they get IMO

I agree about the race to the bottom and try and buy "first world" products when possible. I have many pairs of USA made Smartwool socks that I've bought in the last few years; and I doubt too many people here can claim they own USA socks that they actually bought in the last decade. If I can't buy first world, then I try to buy better brands to help ensure quality, and hope that they pay their workers a living wage.

But, there is also no reason that you can't make a simple product in Vietnam or India that equals that same product that's made in USA, Germany, or Switzerland, for a fraction of the cost. Again, the current lines of Milwaukee power tools are raved about here, and AFAIK, they're all made in either China or Vietnam; not Germany, Switzerland, USA... But if you build a new factory, with modern equipment, and pay the workers a living wage, you can build a quality product anywhere that has a stable government, decent infrastructure for transporting the goods (which Vietnam doesn't really have), and isn't rife with corruption where your truck driver has to pay the police at a roadblock every 5 miles to pass thru. This is how China took over manufacturing consumer products for the last 30 years- infrastructure, and a massive workforce pool.

 

[dnschmidt]

I noticed the same. I bought a couple of the bit sets. They were junk. Stripped a #1 Phillips installing cabinet hinges after the fourth of fifth screw. The T25 lasted less than a pound of deck screws. The magnet in the bit holder was extremely weak. The case was fiddly. Wasn’t impressed.

If you were installing cabinet hinges there is a 100% probability you were using the wrong screwdriver as all of the European hinges that I've ever use: Hettich, Blum, Grass etc. use #2 Pozidrive for their screw heads. Look at the screws and if you see little tick marks around the cruciform it's Posidrive and not Phillips. I've never seen a #1 Phillips used on any European hardware ever.

 

[M6erfan]

and I doubt too many people here can claim they own USA socks that they actually bought in the last decade.

Fits socks owner here. Been a customer for over a decade and buy them on the regular . . .

 

[drtyler]

I doubt too many people here can claim they own USA socks that they actually bought in the last decade..

Blue Summit socks from Tractor Supply are made in the USA. I bought some last week. 3 pair for $15.

 

[neophyte]

The lesson that the general public will never learn is that the quest to cut costs and "race to the bottom" will ALWAYS result in a lower quality product from the companies that choose to chase these types of clients, the perpetual "that's too expensive" crowd....

They deserve the low quality **** they get IMO

30 years ago, you could purchase a USA made circular saw, or reciprocating saw, or touter for around $200+/- , and the saw was as good, or in some cases better, than European tools that coat several times as much, or more.
There were exceptions, but older USA made tools, were very solid in most cases, and sometimes way more reliable than the mire expensive European brands.
This includes brands like Festool, which at the time was still called “Festo”, and Hilti to an extent.
The same was sometimes true of hand tools as well, although import costs etc. Likely had to partially account for the higher cost of Euro hand tools.
Constantly trying to make items cheaper doesn’t necessarily improve quality, and in many cases can cause quality to decline, but higher retail prices aren’t a guarantee an item will be high quality.
There are plenty of items that cost a lot, that are rancid break prone ****.

 

[bpwoodworking]

There are some pretty badass USA circular saws still floating around from that time period. That said, Mafell has been around a long time and I can’t think of anyone that makes better saws (and did then).

Of the more serious jobsite tools, The gems are the older Japan made things like Hitachi chop saws.

 

[oldschoolcraft]

I wanted to buy some additional micro bits, and looked to Wiha first, but see now they're either made in China or Vietnam. Amazon says China, but that might be a generic COO guess.

 

[Steve_P]

I wanted to buy some additional micro bits, and looked to Wiha first, but see now they're either made in China or Vietnam. Amazon says China, but that might be a generic COO guess.

The last Wiha bits I bought were "Mfg in Vietnam with global materials". They're excellent quality IMO, but I understand if you are COO conscious and that is a major factor in your decision.

 

[Yetihunter]

Wiha’s quality and (especially) quality assurance dropped off years ago. COO has nothing to do with it. There was a time I could live on nothing but Wiha for bits, screwdrivers and hex keys. That time passed ages ago it feels like. I absolutely couldn’t trust I’d buy a set and not get one or two defective tools eight to ten years ago. At this point they’re pretty much trash. Felo, Witte, Wera and PB Swiss haven’t changed at all. If you are in the USA, you already know the extra bs from them (aren’t they at car shows now pushing overpriced generic taiwan wrenches?). The only nice thing is the consistency and quality control did go up with bits from the Vietnamese factory. Unfortunately, they’re not particularly industrial nor premium quality anymore.

 

[M635_Guy]

If you were installing cabinet hinges there is a 100% probability you were using the wrong screwdriver as all of the European hinges that I've ever use: Hettich, Blum, Grass etc. use #2 Pozidrive for their screw heads. Look at the screws and if you see little tick marks around the cruciform it's Posidrive and not Phillips. I've never seen a #1 Phillips used on any European hardware ever.

helpful

 

[Steve_P]

Wiha’s quality and (especially) quality assurance dropped off years ago. COO has nothing to do with it. There was a time I could live on nothing but Wiha for bits, screwdrivers and hex keys. That time passed ages ago it feels like. I absolutely couldn’t trust I’d buy a set and not get one or two defective tools eight to ten years ago. At this point they’re pretty much trash. Felo, Witte, Wera and PB Swiss haven’t changed at all. If you are in the USA, you already know the extra bs from them (aren’t they at car shows now pushing overpriced generic taiwan wrenches?). The only nice thing is the consistency and quality control did go up with bits from the Vietnamese factory. Unfortunately, they’re not particularly industrial nor premium quality anymore.

PB Swiss bits cost ~3X more than Wiha. If the premium is worth it to you for a consumable item, fine. The reality is that there is a PB Swiss fan club here, based mostly on COO, that insists that everything they make is vastly superior to everything else. But in the few tests that have been done on PB, they're middle of the pack of the better brands like Wiha, Wera, Bondhus... I do have some PB stuff, and I'm happy with what I have and it's all very pretty; but too much of it is overpriced in the US, IMO. Most of my Wiha stuff is ~10 years old and fantastic quality. I have a decent amount of the Vietnam made Wiha bits and they're high quality at less than a dollar each in quantity. The Wiha hex key set has >1K reviews on Amazon and 4.8*, so it doesn't sound like they're trash- mine aren't. I won't debate this further; everyone is free to have their own opinion.

 

[F-22]

But in the few tests that have been done on PB, they're middle of the pack of the better brands like Wiha, Wera, Bondhus...

Where are these tests that show them middle of the pack?

They're also about the same price here in Europe.