To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

High-Pressure Sodium or CFL for security light?

rodm1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
2,275
I'm in need of a new security light for my barn. What is currently the best bang for the dollar? I'm looking at HPS but is LED or CFL a better way? Any light fixture recommendations will be grate.

Looking to replace the standard 175W Mercury light found on most old barns.
 
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Rookie2

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2013
Messages
1,925
Location
Western Pa.
I installed a 30 watt LED for a friend and he loves it ! He said its brighter and a little harsh but its away from the house so he loves it. Pay back is about 8.4 yrs @ 12 hours a day for a $140.00 fixture @ $0.095/KWH (corrected 03/10/15)

It uses the same mounting hardware so you may only have to swap the head only.

I installed a 50 Watt LED, great light but it needs the optional diffuser !




http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0091JFNVM/?tag=atomicindus08-20
 

Attachments

  • HPIM1631.jpg
    HPIM1631.jpg
    152 KB · Views: 22
Last edited:

toplessHO

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
14,151
Location
central florida
They make a mogul base CFL that will replace the MV. Its about $10 at the box stores.
Just gut the fixture of ballast and wire directly to the mogul base with 120vac.
Make sure the outer screw shell is the neutral and the center contact is the hot.
 
OP
R

rodm1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
2,275
Thanks I will look into them. I'm going to look at the light today hopping the bulb is bad if not I have a HPS light I will temp install.
 

Jere

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
708
If you are in a cold weather area cfl bulbs don't work well when cold. They take a long time to fire up and are dim until they do.

Leds are the way to go.
 

bzinsky

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
5,565
I'm in need of a new security light for my barn. What is currently the best bang for the dollar? I'm looking at HPS but is LED or CFL a better way? Any light fixture recommendations will be grate.

Looking to replace the standard 175W Mercury light found on most old barns.

I deal with a lot of exterior lighting.

HPS is one of the most efficient light sources out there, only common light source that trumps it is low pressure sodium, which is what's usually in street lamps.

I don't buy them anymore for multifamily properties solely because the bulbs and ballasts go bad it's not something most people have sitting around. It's all the light in one source and it's basically just too "different" than other lamp sources, which costs more time and money than it saves. When one goes out, it probably means there is a large area that is now completely dark. With traditional fixtures on the other hand, one bulb goes out, the guys have them on the truck, done.

The other thing I like about traditional fixtures is that you can choose numerous mounting locations and directions. You would obviously need several fixtures to match the light output of what you had, but at $10 a pop, who cares.

Also don't listen to people who say CFL won't last outside, I even use indoor CFL's with no protective housings in a pinch and they last for years through rain and snow. The outdoor projector bulbs last much longer. The life of the bulb seems to have much more to do with the quality of your electric feed than anything else. In some buildings I haven't replaced a single cfl bulb in 6 years, in others it's every 6 months.

If I was in your shoes
If you don't feel like running new electric to multiple fixtures and just want a bright *** energy efficient light, go with LPS. In my opinion they are better for lighting up a parking lot or anything that needs 24/7 lighting.

If you could use light in more than one spot go with a bunch of cheapo outdoor fixtures and CFL spots.

Personally, if it's just for security, nothing beats a few 500 watt halogens with motion sensors. A) the place won't be lit up letting people even know where it is.
b)you save money because 500 watt halogens on for a few minutes a day is a whole lot less than something else on all night
c)I would think getting lit up by a giant light as you approach would be a lot worse than approaching a lit up area. I haven't gotten around to it yet, but I plan on running off the power of my motion sensor lights on my garage and running it into a few house lights. That would be quite scary if you are trying to rob a garage and you get lit up with halogens, and the lights in and around the house come on.

CFL's aren't good for motion, since you don't want to wait for them to get to full brightness.
Generally speaking buying LED's for your home is a bad investment over CFL's. Buy the time you get the cost difference back, which is like 5-10 years, you will almost certainly be able to buy an LED bulb much cheaper. This is unless of course the bulb is used for long periods of time, such as in a night light on all night. HPS trumps LED by a landslide though for efficiency though. So if it's going to be on all night, LED serves no purpose. They aren't that cheap and they aren't that efficient compared to sodium lamps. I only use LED in hallways lights that are on all night or 24/7, or in recessed cans in my own home since CFL's seem to take a lot longer to turn on when they are projection bulbs.
 
Last edited:

aar0s

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Messages
1,905
Location
So.Il.
I've ran cfl bulbs out door and they hold up alright, just get dim in the cold, really really dim the colder it gets. Go LED either in a big wall pack style or several Edison fixtures and be done with it for years.
 

bzinsky

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
5,565
I've ran cfl bulbs out door and they hold up alright, just get dim in the cold, really really dim the colder it gets. Go LED either in a big wall pack style or several Edison fixtures and be done with it for years.

The don't get Dim in the cold in my experience, they just take longer to warm up, which is a non-issue if these lights are on all night.

LED lumens per watt, like 40-80
HPS lumens per watt, like 100-150
 

cybrdyke

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
3,470
Location
USA
I'm in need of a new security light for my barn. What is currently the best bang for the dollar? I'm looking at HPS but is LED or CFL a better way? Any light fixture recommendations will be grate.

Looking to replace the standard 175W Mercury light found on most old barns.

RodM1,
Man, there is some real mis-information in this thread! :scared:
Since 2009, the 175 fixture that you have has been pretty much obsolete. Lots of people are in the same boat as you. Most of them are doing this with really good results:

I installed a 30 watt LED for a friend and he loves it ! He said its brighter and a little harsh but its away from the house so he loves it. Pay back is about 18 months @ 12 hours a day.

It uses the same mounting hardware so you may only have to swap the head only.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0091JFNVM/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Do that and move on.
CD
 

Highbeam

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 15, 2011
Messages
2,293
Location
Mt Rainier foothills, WA
CFLs go dim in the cold in my experience. It's not that they just take longer to warm up, they never get as bright. They look pretty stupid all half lit and certainly are a bad way to go. Sure they don't use much juice as incandescent but ick.

LEDs are vastly superior use slightly less juice but are always bright, instantly light, play with photocells nicely, and last longer.

Those goofy HPS or LPS or MH or whatever are not homeowner stuff.
 

aka Larry

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
8,177
Location
Eastern, NC
FWIW, I had two 70W metal halide fixtures on the exterior of my shop and decided to remove the ballast to use a standard indoor rated 27W CFL. The light is just as bright and they've been up a year with no problems. If they die they are cheap enough to replace and I like the color temperature a lot better than most of the HPS lamps I see.
 

rlitman

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Messages
24,793
Location
Long Island
HPS is one of the most efficient light sources out there, only common light source that trumps it is low pressure sodium, which is what's usually in street lamps.

I haven't seen an LPS in street lamps around here in many years.
Until last year, street lighting was about 75% HPS, and 25% MH. I've see a lot of street light installs in the past year using LED.

The color spectrum from LPS is awful (though I used an LPS as a darkroom safelight, but that's another story), and so even though their luminous efficiency and longevity was unmatched, they were really never popular.

HPS beats everything but LPS in lumens per watt, and has an orange cast that is more acceptable than LPS. HPS will absolutely be better than CFL. Cheaper, longer lasting, better winter performance and more.

As for LED, well it depends on what you want. LED lumens per watt are comparable to CFL, and not as good as HPS, BUT they're better lensed. Most HPS fixtures waste a lot of light upwards (contributing to sky glow, but that's another argument), while LED lights illuminate the same working space to the same degree as HPS using the same power (so there's less overall light, but the reduction in light is mostly in wasted light).

If you prefer something that has better color rendition, and is instant on, the LED is the way to go.
 

Trey T

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Messages
3,749
Location
Houston, TX
^^a 70w MH has 2-3times the lumens over a 27w CFL. If the 70w MH is aged, it's not a good comparison. It's good that you like the 27w CFL; you'll save money on energy bill.

For outdoor lights, I highly recommend LED or CFL (if permits). I would stay away from LED flood lights though bc the light can be very harsh on your eyes and make it unsafe. I have LED for my outdoor to uplight the house and trees and it's Z-Wave automated to be on 13hrs a day. I use standard indoor CFL for lights at the garage and walkway.
 
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

aar0s

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Messages
1,905
Location
So.Il.
The don't get Dim in the cold in my experience, they just take longer to warm up, which is a non-issue if these lights are on all night.

LED lumens per watt, like 40-80
HPS lumens per watt, like 100-150

I had three on my garage that stay on 24/7 and in my old house had a light post with enclosed bulbs that ran the same so I never worried about startup. Once the temp starts to get around 30f they start to dim, drop to 15 and they are about half as bright, switched to led and no more dimming.
 

bzinsky

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
5,565
Those goofy HPS or LPS or MH or whatever are not homeowner stuff.

Only because they have such limited uses and most homeowners aren't familiar with them. I mean most homes don't have a use for a single fixture that is 10k+ lumens that is designed to be on for long periods of time.

There's a reason they are used in commercial, the are one of the most efficient ways to produce light from electricity.

If you need that many lumens, if you want to turn the night into the day, there aren't many better options.
 

bzinsky

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
5,565
I haven't seen an LPS in street lamps around here in many years.
Until last year, street lighting was about 75% HPS, and 25% MH. I've see a lot of street light installs in the past year using LED.

The color spectrum from LPS is awful (though I used an LPS as a darkroom safelight, but that's another story), and so even though their luminous efficiency and longevity was unmatched, they were really never popular.

HPS beats everything but LPS in lumens per watt, and has an orange cast that is more acceptable than LPS. HPS will absolutely be better than CFL. Cheaper, longer lasting, better winter performance and more.

As for LED, well it depends on what you want. LED lumens per watt are comparable to CFL, and not as good as HPS, BUT they're better lensed. Most HPS fixtures waste a lot of light upwards (contributing to sky glow, but that's another argument), while LED lights illuminate the same working space to the same degree as HPS using the same power (so there's less overall light, but the reduction in light is mostly in wasted light).

If you prefer something that has better color rendition, and is instant on, the LED is the way to go.

Good info
 

bzinsky

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
5,565
I had three on my garage that stay on 24/7 and in my old house had a light post with enclosed bulbs that ran the same so I never worried about startup. Once the temp starts to get around 30f they start to dim, drop to 15 and they are about half as bright, switched to led and no more dimming.

Hmm, maybe I just never noticed it. It's only dips to 15 and below a few days out of the year here.
 

bzinsky

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
5,565
FWIW, I had two 70W metal halide fixtures on the exterior of my shop and decided to remove the ballast to use a standard indoor rated 27W CFL. The light is just as bright and they've been up a year with no problems. If they die they are cheap enough to replace and I like the color temperature a lot better than most of the HPS lamps I see.

I have compared many metal halide fixtures to cfl's, if it's just as bright it must have been on it's last legs.

The metal halides always seem to do a much better job at lighting up a large area. I can't explain it, but it seems like it's just more of an area light, like the area around the fixture it not much brighter than the area 40 feet away, where as you can see much anything 40 feet away with a big CFL.

I think if you had them next to each other, and flipped each one on and off, you would notice how many more lumens the metal halide is.
 
OP
R

rodm1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
2,275
I installed a 30 watt LED for a friend and he loves it ! He said its brighter and a little harsh but its away from the house so he loves it. Pay back is about 18 months @ 12 hours a day.

It uses the same mounting hardware so you may only have to swap the head only.




http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0091JFNVM/?tag=atomicindus08-20


Thanks everyone! I ended up returning the HPS and installing the Stonco (Phillips) 30 watt LED and am very happy with it sow far.
 

SALIV8

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Messages
2,114
Location
chicago and s/w michigan
just for anyone else that might be interested in cfl. This cell phone picture is showing my (2) 23w cfls, each in a RAB vaporproof enclosure at 15*F. There is no dimming from the temperature...

imagejpg1_zpsbde996b3.jpg
 

hman123467

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
10
Location
Vic,Australia
What I did was Go online and purchase A 100 Watt LED (8000-9000 Lumenens) and A transformer for 240V Mains (there is 120V ones) And a reflector. It travels 500 meters and I would recommend It

hman out
 

LifeLongWNYer

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
1,231
Location
South of Rochester, NY
I have been holding off on LED bulbs because I wanted to be sure the extra expense is justified by there ( supposedly ) longer life.

A new watering hole opened up near here last November 1st. The exterior of it is festooned with LED flood lights on the building to light up the parking lot. Last Friday, I swung in for a couple of pops and a fish fry and counted exactly 1/3 of the LED fixtures which had something wrong with them. Some were out completely, some had one of the LED elements in them flashing off and on, and some were completely flickering off and on.

So this is about 13 months after the lights were first turned on.... Tell me again about the long life of LED's. Sure they are bright and sure they use less electricity, but replacing them after a year doesn't cost less that the savings.




.
 

aar0s

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Messages
1,905
Location
So.Il.
just for anyone else that might be interested in cfl. This cell phone picture is showing my (2) 23w cfls, each in a RAB vaporproof enclosure at 15*F. There is no dimming from the temperature...

imagejpg1_zpsbde996b3.jpg

I would bet the enclosures are keeping a fair bit of heat inside keeping the bulbs warm.
 

Random Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
155
LEDs themselves are great. Efficient and long life, if they're used correctly. A good quality led fixture, with well designed driver electronics and high quality LEDs that are well cooled, will last and perform well for a very long time. The problem is there is a massive amount of junk on the market, poorly designed and made with cheap LEDs that don't have any hope of lasting even in ideal conditions.
 

LifeLongWNYer

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
1,231
Location
South of Rochester, NY
Understood about the quality of LED's, and I guess they are like everything else, in that you get the ( quality ) that you pay for.

The question is, how do you know that if you pay a big buck for a LED fixture, it is a quality one?

Since my post about the restaurant ( # 27 in this thread ) I ran into the owner. The bar is his wifes' and he is a contractor who builds high-end residential and small / medium sized commercial structures. He told me that they were "high quality" fixtures from a large electrical wholesaler, and NOT "home owner grade" fixtures from a Home Depot or a Lowes. The wholesaler WILL replace them, but he has to go up on the roof to take them down, drive to get them replaced, them climb up to install the replacement fixtures. Sure, at no financial cost, but it is a pain in the ear.

I think I'll pass on LED's. In a few years, they will probably be worth it, but they aren't yet.

I knew a guy who always said ( relating new products ) "never be a pioneer, they are the guys with the arrows in their backs."

JBP




.
 

James-W

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
12,432
Location
Southeastern Wisconsin
Understood about the quality of LED's, and I guess they are like everything else, in that you get the ( quality ) that you pay for.

The question is, how do you know that if you pay a big buck for a LED fixture, it is a quality one?

Since my post about the restaurant ( # 27 in this thread ) I ran into the owner. The bar is his wifes' and he is a contractor who builds high-end residential and small / medium sized commercial structures. He told me that they were "high quality" fixtures from a large electrical wholesaler, and NOT "home owner grade" fixtures from a Home Depot or a Lowes. The wholesaler WILL replace them, but he has to go up on the roof to take them down, drive to get them replaced, them climb up to install the replacement fixtures. Sure, at no financial cost, but it is a pain in the ear.

I think I'll pass on LED's. In a few years, they will probably be worth it, but they aren't yet.

I knew a guy who always said ( relating new products ) "never be a pioneer, they are the guys with the arrows in their backs."

JBP
So what type of lighting are you planning to go with?
 

LifeLongWNYer

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
1,231
Location
South of Rochester, NY
I am planning to hang a few 8' fixtures, using 4' T8 bulbs in the majority of the shop. Over the bench I think I'll put a couple of porcelain "keyless" sockets with CFL's in them.

I'm a devotee of the old G-E relays which switch the line voltage using LV from a single pole, double throw, momentary contact switch. They are great because you can use as many of them to control lights, in a number of locations, as you want without all the heavy gauge wire that 3 and 4-way switches require. Plus it is easy to change a fixture from one circuit to another, just be connecting it to a different relay. Finally, adding a new switch location only requires running LV wire.




.
 

wnyrider

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
376
Location
WNY Buffalo
I went to buy a new sensor for my barn light, the store had no old stuff for sale. All LED's so I bought a nice LED barn light. Not up yet but I'm sure it will serve the purpose 26 watt I think.
 

Scsmith42

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2014
Messages
132
Location
New Hill, NC
I have bern running security light fixtures in several locations here on the farm for 14 years. Have used HPS, metal halide, compact fluorescent and LED. I have been swapping everything over to 42w led and am very pleased so far.

The cfl's would develop problems within a year or two of installation.


Scott
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom