How smooth is too smooth for Water based Epoxy?

[Duamerthrax]

First of all this site has been very helpful for me while researching this topic. You guys rock.

Second I'm on the fence as it were between either a water based epoxy or a solvent based epoxy. If what I read is true, how do I tell how smooth my floor and if it will work with water based epoxy? It's a relatively new floor with radiant heat in it, so I can push out the moisture and it stays warm durning the winter.

 

[Edger]

Sorry, what has smooth got to do differently with each epoxy? Is that smooth 'surface' before epoxy and if so why should it be different for the two types of epoxy.

 

[Duamerthrax]

I found a source said that water based epoxies don't adhere well to slick surfaces. I read that as meaning a smooth or polished surface as I wouldn't imagine a oily surface would work for anyway type of epoxy paint.

Here's the link and the related passage:
http://voices.yahoo.com/benefits-drawbacks-water-based-epoxy-paint-7101138.html
As mentioned earlier, water-based epoxy paint is very easy to apply. However, it doesn't go onto slick surfaces easily like solvent-based paints. Water-based types can go on a wide range of materials though including concrete and plywood.

Is this incorrect?

 

[Cryptic1911]

Neither will stick well if the surface isn't prepped. You either have to diamond grind it, or acid etch it well, or it won't have anything to adhere to, and will peel up easy

 

[Duamerthrax]

Ok then. I do have a few more questions about the article.

When it says water based doesn't do well in high humidity, does it mean while it's setting or over normal use?

What's easer, acid etching or diamond grinding? I do have experience working with hazardous chemicals so safety is routine for me. The space a 1000~ sqft

Are the fumes related to solvent based epoxy a long term concern? Is it safe for a living space? I leaning towards a water based epoxy and I don't think it would be a long term issue, but I figured I'd ask anyway if the linked article is in question.

What's this 100% solid epoxy I see sometime listed next to the water and solvent types?

 

[Cryptic1911]

Acid etching will be easier, and may work just fine if the surface isn't seriously contaminated with oils and stuff. Diamond grinding is more expensive and time consuming, but I would say it leaves a rougher surface for it to grab onto

The solvent ones are going to stink pretty bad as they dry, but afterwords it shouldnt stink. Water based, not so much, if any bad smell, but it isn't as durable. Not sure what they mean by high humidity.. in the air I'm not sure is a problem, but you cant have water coming up through the concrete at all, as it will make the epoxy peel

Water based is well, water based.. so it may have like 35-40% solids (epoxy), so when it dries, 60-65% of the thickness that you put on evaporates (water).

Solvent based may be like 50-60% solids, so you're losing more like 40% as it dries

100% solids goes on and stays basically that thickness, and is the most durable of the bunch. Also the most $$

The numbers I used are just an example, but the theory should hopefully be correct. I'm not an epoxy expert, so if I misspoke, one of the flooring guy will correct it

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Gang:

You will perform the same prep for a thin mil waterborne epoxy system as you will for a 100% solids. You will (really should) apply a primer for either option. Unless, you are doing 10K sq ft. and material pricing is a real issue, go for the 100% solids.

 

[Garage Flooring]

Gang:

You will perform the same prep for a thin mil waterborne epoxy system as you will for a 100% solids. You will (really should) apply a primer for either option. Unless, you are doing 10K sq ft. and material pricing is a real issue, go for the 100% solids.

I made the mistake of buying cheap house paint once. It came with a 100% money back guarantee. Took a lot of time and the product was awful. They gave me my money back. I thin spent a lot of time putting on the product I should have purchased.

You will never get your time back. Legacy is correct. The difference in price is so small relative to the work you will do. Buy a good product as you never get your time back!

 

[Stee6043]

For what it's worth (and this is my first post) I used a solvent based 100% solids epoxy on my floor six years ago with proper prep. In spite of this my 800 square feet of Racedeck is being delivered tomorrow. My floor looked absolutely amazing for a good two years but it just didn't last in my situation. Your mileage will most certainly vary but if I had it to do all over again I would have saved my cashola on the epoxy and invested in something easier to install and more likely to last longer. I don't work for any flooring companies and this is just my two cents.

 

[sxk122]

I trust Legacy and GF and they have a good point that a water epoxy isn't the best. If you can afford it go that route.

That said...

*puts on flame suit*

Even tho it isn't "that much more money" sometimes it's just not in the budget. When I did our garage we had just bought the house, gotten married, and we had not leased my condo out yet. Additionally, contrary to my hopes the tree in the side yard was not a money tree.... just a really tall Persimmons.

I wanted to be able to put my stuff in the garage, and get things moving. The floor had been painted at some point in its past with brown latex wall paint.... as you can imagine, it was a mess. We went with the Seal Crete Epoxy and Clear. I power washed and patched the floor as best as I could, and then prepped it per the directions. For a 480 sqf garage all my materials cost under $125. Prepped and let it sit for a week. Laid a 1st coat, a second coat with chips, and a clear coat. I bought all supplies at Lowes, except for the flakes that were someone elses surplus that I bought on EBay.... Gray, Black, Light Blue, and Glitter

One problem was about an hour after getting the first coat applied it started to rain. This corner by the garage door where there was splash from the rain has been the only place we have had any issues with the floor. The paint peeled up a bit, but I am CERTAIN it was due to the extra moisture when we put it down. After almost a year, we have had no problems other than that one corner.




Here is a picture I just took 10 minutes ago.

If I had of had the funds when we moved in I would have loved a full epoxy. But I don't think (as of yet) that my choice was a bad one. Time will tell.

 

[sxk122]

Oh, and as you can see, I have taken the precaution of parking on mats just in case. I saw many horror stories about lifting, and figured why tempt fate. They are just Harbor Freight Anti-Fatigue mats. One bonus is when the car is wet, it collects most of the moisture. If I am working in the garage, it takes 10 seconds to lift them up and move them, and another 10 seconds to plop them back down when I am done. I drew 2 little "L" shaped brackets on the floor around each mat with a sharpie so it is really easy to place them back down in the right spot. I also have a drop down globe parking stop aid for my wife that I made.

 

[Duamerthrax]

Awesome. This is a lot of info to take in.

For what it's worth (and this is my first post) I used a solvent based 100% solids epoxy on my floor six years ago with proper prep.

How can it be both solvent based and 100% solid? I think I've seen this advertised before and it doesn't make sense to me.

Is there any benefit to grinding, then acid etching? Time isn't a issue and I like to be thorough. My plan is to grind the bulk of the area, then acid etch the corners. My pad has a lot of them.

I'm leaning towards 100% solid now as it's still well under the price my friend paid for his floor.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

100% solids is 100% solids. 93% solids is 7% solvent or water, etc...

 

[OldNeons]

stee6043- could you elaborate on your problems with epoxy please? and what your uses are? Just finishing a shop and deciding on a floor finish. Plastic decking/tiles are out for us- looking at full chip epoxy or tile I believe. Hope to hear more about your issues with epoxy.
thanks

 

[bglad]

I just finished pouring a 40 x 40 garage and was wondering if I still have to etch the concrete? It's about 3 weeks old. How long should I wait to paint the floor? After reading this thread I leaning towards 100% solids. Also I'm wondering about the durability as I plan on installing a lift on one side and using the other side for storage. Being in the Northeast will I have a problem with a humidity level that is around 70%?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Wait 45 days. New concrete will not allow a good "lock" for any coating without an acid etch or light diamond grind to open up the cream a bit.

70% humidity is ok and typical in the Northeast for this time of year.

The durability is excellent for the good epoxy products, make sure you topcoat with a urethane for added UV resistance, chem resistance and overall durability.