I know its not right but can i with 240 volt daisy chain

[machsnell]

so i know you are suppose to have each 240 outlet to a dedicated circuit and this woudnt pass inspection.

but....

1- its only me in my garage
2- 6 and 8 gauge wire is expensive
3- fairly long run to 240 outlets.

what i want to know is how bad an idea is it and can you give me a nod or should i be smarter than cheaper?

i want to have various 240 volt outlets in my garage for welders, plasma, and whatever else i might get in my future power tool disorder.

i have bandsaw and planer that run on 20 amp so i will use 12 gauge for those i will put in 2 circuits with 2 outlets each.

for the 30 amp circuits for welder and plasma i was going to run a 50 amp breaker and 6 gauge wire (i know you can go smaller for welders etc). i would do this so if i ever got an older tig or anything that truely needed 50 amp i would have it wired and i could change the outlet.

i wanted to daisy chain the 6 gauge to maybe 4 outlets.

kosher? if not let the hammer drop.

 

[ishiboo]

Go for it. As long as the breaker is sized appropriately for the wire, you're safe.

I would standardize plugs and make adapters or change cord ends where you need it. IIRC 6-50 is the common 50A for welders/etc.

 

[Alchymist]

On that fairly long 240 v run - depending on where the final receptacles end up, perhaps a #6 run to a sub panel and then separate runs to each receptacle off individual breakers? Sub panels being fairly cheap, and room for expansion.

 

[machsnell]

ishi,
great and good suggestion on the standardized 6-50 with whips or adaptors to change plug ends.

i had another question...if i am putting in the 6-50 with the 6 ga. is it possible to have a 240v 20a receptacle right next to it where i have 12 ga wire coming off of the 6-50 to the 240/20 right next to it?

 

[machsnell]

On that fairly long 240 v run - depending on where the final receptacles end up, perhaps a #6 run to a sub panel and then separate runs to each receptacle off individual breakers? Sub panels being fairly cheap, and room for expansion.

Alchymist,

now i hadnt thought about that. i am finalizing my layout now and that might be an option that would be safer and not break the bank. i think i can centrally locate a sub panel. as well it gets me out up in attic a step closer.

Thanks for that suggestion.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

ishi,
great and good suggestion on the standardized 6-50 with whips or adaptors to change plug ends.

i had another question...if i am putting in the 6-50 with the 6 ga. is it possible to have a 240v 20a receptacle right next to it where i have 12 ga wire coming off of the 6-50 to the 240/20 right next to it?

No.

A 20a receptacle must be protected by 20a breaker

 

[machsnell]

got it.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Also, #12 used in general purpose circuits must be protected by 20a breaker.

If your jurisdiction is under the IBC, you cannot daisy chain 240v outlets rated above 20a.

 

[ez-duzit]

So that my tig welder, mig welder and plasma cutter can all be plugged into one 220 outlet I made up a 65-foot 6-gage extension cord with 3 nema 6-50 receptacles in a metal junction box. That box will be mounted to a future welding cart.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I would standardize plugs and make adapters or change cord ends where you need it. IIRC 6-50 is the common 50A for welders/etc.

... and total over kill in almost all cases. I know that the 6-50 is the "industry standard" for welders, but I think a more appropriately sized plug (6-20 or 6-30) would be better.

 

[theoldwizard1]

so i know you are suppose to have each 240 outlet to a dedicated circuit and this woudnt pass inspection.

but....

1- its only me in my garage
2- 6 and 8 gauge wire is expensive
3- fairly long run to 240 outlets.

what i want to know is how bad an idea is it and can you give me a nod or should i be smarter than cheaper?
.
.
.
i wanted to daisy chain the 6 gauge to maybe 4 outlets.

One problem you are going to have with with daisy chaining 6 gauge wire is splicing off for each receptacle. You will likely need a large box to contain the splice, then a short run to another box that will hold the receptacle.

The "right way" to do this is to install a sub panel near where these tools will be located. If this sub panel is in the same building as the building "main", then you can use an inexpensive 6 circuit panel with no main breaker.

You should price both methods out. 3 or 4 large splice boxes and 6 or 8 triple Polaris connectors might cost more than that one sub panel and a bit of extra wire.

 

[Bert_]

If your jurisdiction is under the IBC, you cannot daisy chain 240v outlets rated above 20a.

Not singling out your comment for any particular reason other than it got me thinking ^

I did a bit of looking and it seems Iowa is currently using the '15 IBC. I have never had a bit of trouble doing exactly as the OP suggested though.

I would like to hear the reasoning behind this particular rule. Seems to me it poses no safety issues. It could be an inconvenience if some one tried to operate 2 machines that together overload the circuit. But that is a design issue not a code issue.

So many farm and home shops will have 4-5 50A recepts. for ONE welder. The goal is to avoid using extension cords, not power 4-5 welders /ect.

 

[PhysicsDude]

The idea is that anything that uses a 30 or 50+ amp circuit will draw close to the max. rating of the circuit. Unlike <20a equipment which rarely uses the full ampacity of the circuit they're on.

For example if you have a table saw that requires a 30A 240V circuit, it probably draws over 20A, or else it would only require a 20A circuit. Therefore, it should never be used at the same time as any other piece of equipment on its 30A 240V breaker, because any other piece of equipment that requires a 30A 240V breaker will also draw 20+ amps, thus 1 breaker, 1 receptacle, or 1 hardwired piece of equipment.

The rule is probably a bit much for most of us, since we know how our shop is wired, but in a commercial/industrial setting it makes sense, and if you were in a residential setting where you didn't know how the receptacles were wired, it makes sense. I would have no issue having 30A or 50A receptacles sharing a breaker in my future shop, as long as I didn't think I would ever need to use both receptacles at the same time.


To OP, make sure to plan how you're going to splice each plug. If you run 6AWG, and plan on "daisy chain" the plugs like you would normally do, I don't think you can fit two 6AWG wires into a Nema 6-50 plug, and if you wire nut it with a pigtail, 4 splices of 3 wires each of 6AWG cable is a pain in the rear, and take up a lot of space and be pretty difficult to stuff into a box.

 

[audioworks04]

I would go for a sub panel, as was stated above jumpering at each outlet will not be fun due to the size of the wire. Personally I have a 120amp service to my subpanel in the garage. From that I have my 220v heater on one circuit, my air compressor on another, and my lift power is shared with my welding plug (as the likely hood of me welding and using the lift is slim to none). Plus 3 110v circuits out of the same subbox.


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[EOC_Jason]

FYI, there are 240v 20A duplex receptacles...

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton...-Grounding-Duplex-Outlet-Brown-5824/301361703

Larger size I would recommend using a sub-panel and branching out from there. Like others have said, the physical size of the wire would make for a difficult time trying to daisy-chain...

Also you might want to consider using a long SO cable for higher-amp things instead of putting receptacles everywhere?

 

[raferguson]

My recollection is that joining three wires of size 6 or 8 is painful. I recall a copper device with a nut that tightened, and then needed to be wrapped in two different kinds of electrical tape. I don't think that you can get a wire nut big enough for this task. As others have said, you will need a big enough box to accommodate the bulky splices. In my shop, I have two 240V outlets on the same 50A circuit. I occasionally run my 240V plasma cutter and my 240V compressor at the same time, no problems to date.

 

[EOC_Jason]

You are thinking of those copper split-bolt connectors. You wrap in a foam insulating tape first, then regular electrical tape afterwards...

You can also use Insulated Multitap Connectors, stick the wire in and tighten down the allen head. Bulky but no need to wrap anything as it is already insulated.

My recollection is that joining three wires of size 6 or 8 is painful. I recall a copper device with a nut that tightened, and then needed to be wrapped in two different kinds of electrical tape. I don't think that you can get a wire nut big enough for this task.

 

[Bad Habit]

It's called a split nut, used for splicing and tapping wires of all sizes. Exactly what I'm going to use when I put in my multiple location welding outlets and an RV outlet outside the shop. all on the same circuit as no more than one will ever be used at the same time. And very simply and legibly marked...

 

[pattenp]

"Split Nut" is not the proper name. It is "Split Bolt".

 

[OccupantRJ]

I ran my welder wiring from the panel up into the attic and passed straight through a plastic junction box, all in conduit. When I later installed the second receptacle, i stripped back the insulation on the pass through wires without cutting the wires and split bolted the second wiring to the first. In my case I know the receptacles will only be used one at a time. This made for a neat, easy to manage splice.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I ran my welder wiring from the panel up into the attic and passed straight through a plastic junction box, all in conduit. When I later installed the second receptacle, i stripped back the insulation on the pass through wires without cutting the wires and split bolted the second wiring to the first. In my case I know the receptacles will only be used one at a time. This made for a neat, easy to manage splice.

A good way to go ! What size wire and how big was the splice box !


The last time I used a split bolt, I was told to use 2 layers of friction tape !

 

[alfredeneuman]

I and passed straight through a plastic junction box, all in conduit. When I later installed the second receptacle, i stripped back the insulation on the pass through wires without cutting the wires and split bolted the second wiring to the first. In my case I know the receptacles will only be used one at a time. This made for a neat, easy to manage splice.

Are you able to pull the splice out at least 3" beyond the front of the box?

It's a Code requirement.

 

[Norcal]

Are you able to pull the splice out at least 3" beyond the front of the box?

It's a Code requirement.

My guess on a scale of 1- 10 it' a -50 that cannot do so.

 

[machsnell]

Thanks for all the info I hadn't thought about how much of a pain it is to connect 10 and 12 ga wire and so 6 would certainly be a pain.

Sounds like picking a spot for a sub panel in attic is the solution.

You guys rule. Gracias.

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[OccupantRJ]

My guess on a scale of 1- 10 it' a -50 that cannot do so.

You lose NorCal. I had the forethought to include the 8" junction box in the run, so I also included a loop in the wire inside the J box for later. I am very big on future infrastructure on my personal projects. There is already an underground 2" electrical conduit between the house and shop waiting for a future electrical upgrade from the existing 60 amp. I ran it when I was running water, sewer, and network cables.

 

[Norcal]

You lose NorCal. I had the forethought to include the 8" junction box in the run, so I also included a loop in the wire inside the J box for later. I am very big on future infrastructure on my personal projects. There is already an underground 2" electrical conduit between the house and shop waiting for a future electrical upgrade from the existing 60 amp. I ran it when I was running water, sewer, and network cables.

Did say it was a guess.

 

[machsnell]

Last question

For the 50 amp sub panel does it matter if it has a main breaker?

Also is it wired 4 wore or 3 wire from my garage panel (which is unbonded netr/grnd subpanel).

Wasn't sure on the need for neutral. I will have 1 daisy chained 240/20 out of this sub panel

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[Alchymist]

Last question

For the 50 amp sub panel does it matter if it has a main breaker?

Also is it wired 4 wore or 3 wire from my garage panel (which is unbonded netr/grnd subpanel).

Wasn't sure on the need for neutral. I will have 1 daisy chained 240/20 out of this sub panel

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Doesn't need a main breaker IF there are no more than 6 handles used to shut off all power in the panel, however, the slight additional cost of a MB panel is worth it in convenience - shut off the whole panel with one breaker. It will need a ground, and run the neutral - never know when you might want to add a 120 v outlet or a piece of 240 v equipment that needs a neutral. Neutral and ground bus are not bonded.

 

[machsnell]

Doesn't need a main breaker IF there are no more than 6 handles used to shut off all power in the panel, however, the slight additional cost of a MB panel is worth it in convenience - shut off the whole panel with one breaker. It will need a ground, and run the neutral - never know when you might want to add a 120 v outlet or a piece of 240 v equipment that needs a neutral. Neutral and ground bus are not bonded.

Thank you sir.

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