Is there a limit.....

[creatureofthewheel]

is there a limit to the amount of skepticism for HF tools that we all seem to covet?! Every HF or Pittsburgh thread i read i go "i have those too" specifically though i have, use, and ENJOY my Pittsburgh Composite 3/8 and 1/2 drivers regularly. Am i ok? seriously though has anyone used these for long periods of time, has anyone seen one fail, etc? they are so light but the square drive is a little small so they have a little slop. i use em on stuff requiring less than 85 pounds of torque.

 

[Stanger]

I think I have two HF tools total. A torque wrench(junk) and a right angle air grinder(decent).

 

[joshboogie]

I've got a set of pick tools and plastic panel tools from HF and they are the only thing I've bought that I still use. Never used any of the sockets personally or the ratchets. From what I have see it's not bad stuff if you use them occasionally but if you're using the stuff everyday I'm not so sure. The Pittsburgh stuff has a lifetime warranty on it so if there is one close to you you're OK. I've broken plenty of Craftsman socket and a few Ratchets. But I have a PM tool kit I got from Wal-Mart like 9 years ago and have used it more that any other ratchet I own and it's still working with no problem. I think it's preference personally.

 

[eschoendorff]

There are a lot of us on this board who have more HF tools than we'd care to admit. We bash China left and right... and scorn the past quality of HF tools. Then again, there are only a handful of threads with catastrophic HF tool failures. In fact, I remember more broken Snap On and Craftsman tools threads than broken HF tools threads...

The whole HF thing borders on stupid jingoistic self righteousness most of the time...


Truth be told: if it weren't for HF, I wouldn't be able to afford a lot of the stuff I have. I do prefer Snap On for selected pieces, but HF does have its place in my garage (and in the shops of a LOT of us on this board).

 

[wilbilt]

A concrete mixer and a horizontal bandsaw are the most substantial HF tools I own. They see occasional use, and do OK within their limitations.

I could not afford to buy their US-made counterparts, especially since they are rarely used. If I needed these things on a daily professional basis, there is no way the HF stuff would do the job.

I bought a lot of hand tools from HF back around 1986. Utter junk it was. Caused significant injury on at least one occasion.

What can I say...old opinions die hard.

 

[MarkH]

On our farm the idea to optimize machinery usage is a rule. No new paint unless it can be justified, never because someone wants it. Simply stated many of our neighbors run a machine 200-300 hours a year. We are getting them up in the 1,000 hour range or more. Whose machines see the shops more times per year for emergency repairs, ours, whose machines see the shops for emergency repairs less per hour worked, ours.

The same thing holds true with tools. For the hours worked the high end tools we have break more often, but break less per hour used. That is why we have Snap On or else broke threads. They are the high hour tools. They will break. The lower end is designed to break, at lower hours, but if they do not get the hours it does not happen.

For some types of tools and machines we have found not using them causes just as many or more issues than using them, hard. All that has to be taken into consideration on what to buy for your own use.

 

[joshboogie]

So in a nut shell what you are saying is everything is going to break it's just a matter of when and how often. Right?

 

[wilbilt]

So in a nut shell what you are saying is everything is going to break it's just a matter of when and how often. Right?

No.
Not everything will break.

Using an item professionally on a daily basis will increase the chance of breakage, but this is true with any tool.

 

[joshboogie]

I see your point.

 

[PoorOwner]

Lately I have been trying to get rid of some of my HF stuff I was not thrilled about, most of their hand tools I don't like.. but they are so cheap it's not hard to unload sometimes.. I got a angle electric drill with run out of about 1/8" It must be the latest wobble design but I am just boring a hole for wires anyway it works ok. Got a $20 brake kit to turn the pistons it's not under tremedous force no need to spend hundreds on Snap Ons.. Just observe and use common sense and you'll be OK!

 

[MarkH]

Life cycles are designed in as part of the costing as is repairability.

19.00 trolley jack. I have seen articles (please search) where they have been stated to have been designed with as few as 10 cycles in mind. For some people that is 10 years.

The old long frame Blackhawks and Lincolns, the designed cycle is 10 per day X 5 to 10 years. Then they can be rebuilt. Again all by design. Additional cost though.

Pro use gets you to where the life cycle will catch you at some point on many tools. Some items have almost unlimited life in low stress use. The other point to consider is how you use the tool and if there is a failure, will you get hurt. The warranty only covers the tool, not anything else that can be broken including you. With improper use you can break most things, even an anvil.

I like to have all options open and get frustrated when they are taken away, especially the high use cycle life with the rebuild option available.

 

[billymade]

I"m with you; if you can err on the side of reliability, high duty cycle and eliminate problems and disappointment when you can, why not? Thats what working in a professional body shop taught me; what works well and breaks the least? Its that simple and when I can afford it, I try to get the tools that fit those characteristics. Most of the time if I search around, I can find that tool used and 50-80% off MSRP. Its not rocket science....

 

[JayL]

IMHO as an automotive hobbyist I would always prefer tools that I can use in my cars as well as something I would be able to gather as collector items. However if I would be wrenching for a living then I would want to get tools that can get the job done at the least possible cost specially for those that are seldom used.

 

[Merkava_4]

I have a sea otter that is specially trained in maritime demolition operations. He's on his way to the Chinese freighter right now to apply a magnetic care package of C4 explosives to the ship's hull. He will then swim to a safe distance from the ship and then push the button on his wireless remote detonator.

BAWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

[ToolmanTom]

IMHO as an automotive hobbyist I would always prefer tools that I can use in my cars as well as something I would be able to gather as collector items. However if I would be wrenching for a living then I would want to get tools that can get the job done at the least possible cost specially for those that are seldom used.

But your not....BAAAHAHAHAHA!ROTFL

 

[billymade]

Cost seems to be a factor that is hammered over and over again on this site; cost alone seems to somehow "disqualify" the professional grade tools and elevate the cheapest priced tool as the ultimate solution. Low cost alone seems to be the grand justification for everything; inexpensive price alone does not create legitimacy, what about quality? The fact of the matter is that the pro grade tools can be had at 50-80% off in the used market; so whats the point? I will continue to buy pro grade tools at steep discounts and be happy in the knowledge they will work well and last me a long time (with some being a lifetime!).
The message is clear; do not buy junk tools, no matter what the price is!

 

[nissan_crawler]

I think I have two HF tools total. A torque wrench(junk) and a right angle air grinder(decent).

I find that surprising. More Snap-On torque wrenches at work (including mine) have had to be sent out due to failing calibration than HF ones (in fact, I know of no HF ones that have failed), and there's at least 5x as many HF torque wrenches as Snap-Ons. My $9 cummins tool truck 1/2" torque wrench is spot on.

 

[Merkava_4]

The message is clear; don't buy junk tools no matter what the price is!

Dang skippy!

 

[Terry Kennedy]

is there a limit to the amount of skepticism for HF tools that we all seem to covet?!

Up until two weeks ago I had never purchased anything from HF. I was 800 miles away from home and helping an ex-GF install a sink in her kitchen. We needed a jigsaw to cut the hole and she didn't want to spend a lot of money. HF had just opened a local store, so I went in there and purchased a $19.95 saw with "laser guide".

The laser (batteries not included) aligned well with the index on the shoe of the saw. However, the saw's actual cut was skewed a good 10 degrees from those. Looking at the blade carrier, it looks like it was manufactured to have the blade on an angle.

I suppose HF serves some part of the market. But they can exclude me for another 40 years...

 

[Rickster]

I love the Harbor Freight cut-off discs in my angle grinder. Often times it's a race to see if I can finish the cut befor the disc reduces to the size of a dime. And always wear a full face shield because they throw **** everywhere. But they're just soo damn cheap. HF is what it is, cheap stuff you can't count on. I've tossed away two of their angle grinders already, but I like them because of their light weight for when I'm grinding rust and undercoating off my old Mustang. I don't ***** when they go up in smoke, I just plunk down another $10 for a new one.

 

[nissan_crawler]

I love the Harbor Freight cut-off discs in my angle grinder. Often times it's a race to see if I can finish the cut befor the disc reduces to the size of a dime. And always wear a full face shield because they throw **** everywhere. But they're just soo damn cheap. HF is what it is, cheap stuff you can't count on.

After one guy posting pictures on another board of a grinder wheel that entered this throat, and me having two 14" cutoff wheels explode at their first touch of metal (one of which buried itself in sheetrock), I'll be damned if there will EVER be a HF abrasive in my garage. No way in hell.

 

[Rickster]

WOW, I don't need any more convincing. The angle grinder does spin those discs up awfully fast for using cheapo disc's.

 

[george4]

After one guy posting pictures on another board of a grinder wheel that entered this throat, and me having two 14" cutoff wheels explode at their first touch of metal (one of which buried itself in sheetrock), I'll be damned if there will EVER be a HF abrasive in my garage. No way in hell.

I also noticed that the HF 14" abrasive cut off wheel did not run true, lots of vibration, no breakage but made me nervous. I tossed them and went back to Norton.
But: http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/showthread.php?t=30331

 

[eschoendorff]

I have a sea otter that is specially trained in maritime demolition operations. He's on his way to the Chinese freighter right now to apply a magnetic care package of C4 explosives to the ship's hull. He will then swim to a safe distance from the ship and then push the button on his wireless remote detonator.

BAWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

What we really need is some sort of pigeon that will drop explosive poop on computers in the Clovis, CA area to help rid the world of useless posts....

 

[MarkH]

"My $9 cummins tool truck 1/2" torque wrench is spot on."

For every one who has a good experience we also get the bad ones. We had a service truck with two Cummim's tools on it one day. An impact wrench and a torque wrench. We were fixing a failure during harvest. We took the impact wrench to speed removing some parts, it just hammered did nothing. Since they were small bolts we took a FAR25 and removed them. Interesting. We also had to torque some bolts in reassembly to around 75 Ft/lbs. I had run them down with the FAR25 since it could not over torque them at 25 ft/lbs/ The new, Cummin's torque wrench just clicked, I took it out of the wrapper. When it acted like it worked we could move the fasteners with our fingers.

Cost of going and getting one that worked, trying to make the thing work and an 80 mile round trip at about 200 dollars, cost of the machine off line since it delayed moving the herd to another farm about a thousand. We have not gone to Cummin's sales since. HF has an approved list of items after similar issues, torque wrenches are not on them, in fact most items with moving parts are not on the list. Our better torque wrenches are not always spot on, but that fits us better than the all or none its correct or not working we get from the lower dollar ones.

 

[PoorOwner]

Cost seems to be a factor that is hammered over and over again on this site; cost alone seems to somehow "disqualify" the professional grade tools and elevate the cheapest priced tool as the ultimate solution.

Really, I feel the OPPOSITE vibe is around here, actually.. (e.g. if it doesn't cost a big fraction of the paycheck, or made in China, it's automatically bad stfuf)

But if you go to most COMMON car forums most hobbyists will propose HF as a solution.. going to Sears is already considered splurging.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Cost seems to be a factor that is hammered over and over again on this site; cost alone seems to somehow "disqualify" the professional grade tools and elevate the cheapest priced tool as the ultimate solution. Low cost alone seems to be the grand justification for everything; inexpensive price alone does not create legitimacy, what about quality? The fact of the matter is that the pro grade tools can be had at 50-80% off in the used market; so whats the point? I will continue to buy pro grade tools at steep discounts and be happy in the knowledge they will work well and last me a long time (with some being a lifetime!).
The message is clear; do not buy junk tools, no matter what the price is!

I agree with your thoughts to a point. I would estimate that 50-60% of my tools were bought used so I have always been a huge fan of used, and even damaged and disfigured within reason. However, there are tools that are rarely if ever found used (as an example when was the last time you found a pair of 16" long needlenose used?) To buy a quality equivelent new would ruin most of $60-70 I would guess.

I can buy a set of bent and straight nose at HF for roughly $12.00. Now lets further look at my position, I have one decent paycheck coming in the door and four kids under 18plus the wife to support. If you are in my shoes which pair of needlenose will you be buying?

BTW I do not make my living as a wrench bender so I cannot justify from that angle either. Additionally I can either have the cheapies or nothing so I guess I will opt for the cheapies over nothing!

 

[Uncle Buck]

I also noticed that the HF 14" abrasive cut off wheel did not run true, lots of vibration, no breakage but made me nervous. I tossed them and went back to Norton.
But: http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/showthread.php?t=30331

There are some items such as cutting wheels, blades, and bits by any description and also sand paper that is not money well spent at HF. You might also include auto fuses GFCI's etc in that description. I would be downright spooked using a HF 14" cuttoff wheel, I would not trust one for a second, nor would I trust a grinding wheel from there.

 

[kblazer87]

If the question is Harbor Freight, the answer is NO.

 

[Merkava_4]

If the question is Harbor Freight, the answer is NO.

I like that.

 

[sjotis]

I've got a couple things from Harbor Freight (including a trailer). I'm not impressed at all. The trailer had bad fasteners and poorly threaded axles. You definitely get what you pay for.

 

[gotmud13613]

I've got a couple things from Harbor Freight (including a trailer). I'm not impressed at all. The trailer had bad fasteners and poorly threaded axles. You definitely get what you pay for.

You must have gotten a BAD trailer, mine is 6 yrs old used every weekend to haul my 4x4 atv or lawn mower. best $250 i ever spent. Bearings are still tight as the day I got it. Other than it's faded to any ugly pink color , i've had 0 problems with it.

 

[MarkH]

"But if you go to most COMMON car forums most hobbyists will propose HF as a solution.. going to Sears is already considered splurging."

I also read a number of good things in those forums, but I read a number that have incredibly stupid advice in them. Accidents waiting to happen. That is why the ED sees some of the same people twice if they are lucky, the machine let them down, then they went and used it again. The tool broke, you get a replacement.

 

[wilbilt]

"But if you go to most COMMON car forums most hobbyists will propose HF as a solution.. going to Sears is already considered splurging."

The posters in those forums seem to be aged 12-16. Practical experience is nonexistent, unless you count the video games.

 

[stricht8]

I enjoy fine tools but there are some that I just cannot afford, so I go to HF. Some examples are a bead roller, mock Beverly shear, sheetmetal brake, planishing hammer, etc. USA versions of these tools would add up to many thousands of dollars. I purchesed them all for several hundred and now I can do my metalworking. Sure they are sub par but they also do the job. I generally stay away from HF hand tools just because these tools are more affordable so I will buy better or the best.

 

[joshboogie]

I was in HF yesterday just looking around and I can honestly say that I doubt I will even buy another tool from there again. I looked at the Pittsburgh ratchet wrenches and they aren't close to the Craftsman or GearWrench brands. They are similar in design but that's pretty much where is stops. IDK if reading on this forum has opened my eyes to things I wasn't aware of before but the quality of tools there is sub par at best.

 

[dxdexter]

I can't comment on HF in particular because we I have never been in one, but we have Princess Auto (PA) which from the impression I get, sells similar hand tools. I personally would not buy PA's basic hand tools or electrical tools unless it was for a "one off" job and the tool would sit in my box for the rest of it's existence. I will say that the quality has improved over the years and the warranty cannot be beat. They will replace anything, no questions asked. A warrant is great, but you don't want to have a tool break through a job and cost you time and money to return.

The thing that immediately strikes me when I look at the wrenches, is the quality of the finish and the stamping. The chrome is thin and sometimes you can't even read the script. To me that is a turn off.

I also believe, if I can afford to support USA or Canadian industry, then I should. Not everyone can, since the price differentials are so great, but you are also investing in an item that last a lifetime and have value many years from now. A cheap Chinese tool is basically worthless (other than its practical purpose) once you leave the store.

 

[eschoendorff]

I was in HF yesterday just looking around and I can honestly say that I doubt I will even buy another tool from there again. I looked at the Pittsburgh ratchet wrenches and they aren't close to the Craftsman or GearWrench brands. They are similar in design but that's pretty much where is stops. IDK if reading on this forum has opened my eyes to things I wasn't aware of before but the quality of tools there is sub par at best.

We must not be looking at the same ratcheting wrenches because Pittsburgh has a line out that is identical to Gear Wrench...

 

[eschoendorff]

"My $9 cummins tool truck 1/2" torque wrench is spot on."

For every one who has a good experience we also get the bad ones.

That can be said for ANY brand of tool. Nothing new here.

 

[eschoendorff]

Cost seems to be a factor that is hammered over and over again on this site; cost alone seems to somehow "disqualify" the professional grade tools and elevate the cheapest priced tool as the ultimate solution. Low cost alone seems to be the grand justification for everything; inexpensive price alone does not create legitimacy, what about quality? The fact of the matter is that the pro grade tools can be had at 50-80% off in the used market; so whats the point? I will continue to buy pro grade tools at steep discounts and be happy in the knowledge they will work well and last me a long time (with some being a lifetime!).
The message is clear; do not buy junk tools, no matter what the price is!

Are we reading the same posts? The general consensus around here is to buy quality with less regard for price!