Andres26tnt
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 11, 2018
- Messages
- 994
Yes Astro products is AP in AmazonJp. Unfortunately some vendors won't ship overseas. I'm blessed to live in Japan so it wasn't an issue for me. Maybe try ebay?
Koken or Stahlwille Ratchet
- Thread starter Zewnten
- Start date
dnschmidt
Well-known member
I always find this amusing. THE QUESTION WAS KOKEN OR STAHLWILLE. Yet we have Gearwrench, Snap-On, KTC, Facom, Hazet, Matco and who the hell knows what else mentioned above. As a German I prefer, or at least have a tendency to, answer the question that was asked. I'll vote for Stahlwille
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Andres26tnt
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 11, 2018
- Messages
- 994
We answer the question lol, but also suggested another. The Consensus here is the stahlwille is nice but weak at the flex, Koken also nice but low tooth count. Gotta give options off you feel like those aren't up to par.
SwissMetric
Well-known member
I don't know the Koken but I cannot recommend any flexible joint ("articulated") Stahlwille ratchet like:
1/4": 416, 416QR (QuickRelease);
3/8": 425 and 425QR (QuickRelease) ;
1/2": 517 and 518QR (QuickRelease)
nor the smaller so called "flexible handles":
1/4": 403 (1/4");
3/8": 424 (3/8");
1/2": 504/15, 504/18, 504/24 (1/2") the 2nd number being the handle length in inches.
Formerly there were also 60 teeth versions with the knurled disk.
While I highly recommend most Stahlwille ratchets, IMO the discussed joints were not designed strong enough. Some current flexible joint ratchets even feature plastic parts (e.g. QR N/QR N80 clipsed plastic covers secured with a somewhat PITA-ish to remove Smalley Spirolox ring) which I hate with a passion, don't remember if there are plastic parts in the joint locking mechanism. Shame on Stahlwille!
BTW Hazet did use plastic sliders already a long time ago for some reversible ratchets, all I saw were ruined.
With some Stahlwille ratchets the rotating part can be reinstalled upside-down which reduces the risk to accidentally reverse the ratchet and also mechanically protects the small lever due to the protruding male square drive. Levers and lever axis are easy to replace but are usually not sold individually as their handling cost exceeds the part costs.
OTOH the surprisingly massive 554 (3/4") and 884 (1") are fine, though I never use them if the 3/4" od 1" ratchet head or a sliding head (556 (3/4") or 886 (1") can be used).
There are at least two different versions of 554 and 884 but it's only a detail about the release of the handle which has a spring-loaded cylindrical locking pin which must be pushed back to unlock the handle.
Older versions only have a small hole through which the pin has to be puhed back using a tool, the same applies to the ratchet heads 552 (3/4") and 882 (1").The green "buttons" are replaceable. Indeed also the freely moveable "encaged" unlock pins of the 3/4" and 1" sockets are replaceable.
1/4": 416, 416QR (QuickRelease);
3/8": 425 and 425QR (QuickRelease) ;
1/2": 517 and 518QR (QuickRelease)
nor the smaller so called "flexible handles":
1/4": 403 (1/4");
3/8": 424 (3/8");
1/2": 504/15, 504/18, 504/24 (1/2") the 2nd number being the handle length in inches.
Formerly there were also 60 teeth versions with the knurled disk.
While I highly recommend most Stahlwille ratchets, IMO the discussed joints were not designed strong enough. Some current flexible joint ratchets even feature plastic parts (e.g. QR N/QR N80 clipsed plastic covers secured with a somewhat PITA-ish to remove Smalley Spirolox ring) which I hate with a passion, don't remember if there are plastic parts in the joint locking mechanism. Shame on Stahlwille!
BTW Hazet did use plastic sliders already a long time ago for some reversible ratchets, all I saw were ruined.
With some Stahlwille ratchets the rotating part can be reinstalled upside-down which reduces the risk to accidentally reverse the ratchet and also mechanically protects the small lever due to the protruding male square drive. Levers and lever axis are easy to replace but are usually not sold individually as their handling cost exceeds the part costs.
OTOH the surprisingly massive 554 (3/4") and 884 (1") are fine, though I never use them if the 3/4" od 1" ratchet head or a sliding head (556 (3/4") or 886 (1") can be used).
There are at least two different versions of 554 and 884 but it's only a detail about the release of the handle which has a spring-loaded cylindrical locking pin which must be pushed back to unlock the handle.
Older versions only have a small hole through which the pin has to be puhed back using a tool, the same applies to the ratchet heads 552 (3/4") and 882 (1").The green "buttons" are replaceable. Indeed also the freely moveable "encaged" unlock pins of the 3/4" and 1" sockets are replaceable.
Ohio Andy
Well-known member
Wow, lots of good information there. Wish I could double like it
SwissMetric
Well-known member
To keep a long story short, Stahlwille had always issues with the smaller flexible joints up to and including 1/2". There are also some spare part sets for the 504 (all handle lentghs) and, due to weakness problems, at some point they replaced the zinc-platzd M8 countersunk Phillips screw by a larger black phosphated M10 contersunk TORX screw. That explains why there are two spare part sets (5040 for the old and 5040N for the new version).
The spare part set 4240 for the 424 (3/8") is no longer in the catalog and IIRC the spare part kit for the 403 (1/4") has never existed though for both the 424 (3/8") and 403 (1/4") spare parts exist.
And BTW, the sliding T-handles 425 (3/8") and 506 (1/2") have been manufactured both with removable and non-removable sliding part. For the 404 (1/4") I don't remember right now.
These are some examples of Stahlwille tools where different versions exist with the exact same article #, it also applies to the 532 (1/2") long handle classic 36 teeth ratchet where one version is with a fixed handle and one with a very convenient removable handle like the 552 (3/4") and 882 (1") ratchet heads. Many dealers have never seen the 532 (1/2") with removable handle version.
Some details are so subtle that probably even some internal Stahlwille salesrep don't know about. Also AFAIK Stahlwille never gave out comprehensive spare part lists. Here many officially not indivdually sold spare parts can be found but it's not alway easy to know exactly which parts are compatible due to some version updates.
I usually don't repair Stahlwille tools but happen know how to repair some of them, including many mechanical Manoskop torque wrenches and probably all ratchet models. For many ratchets spare part sets are available, and in addtion some unlisted spare parts can be found, for the Manoskop only few spare parts are officially made available, overall there are several hundred different spare parts just for the mechanical torque wrenches and maybe roughly 100 to 200 for ratchets but I never checked it in detail.
In addition there are unlisted spare parts for various tools. There are also spare parts that are no longer officially available.
Since the owner family Wille retired from the management, Stahlwille has become much more profit-oriented and many great tools are no longer manufatcured due to low sales volumes OTOH they invested in the development of less robust new tool versions.
I'm totally unrelated to Stahlwille or to any representative, distributor or reseller. I just happen to know some details because I use their tools since my childhood and always try to maintain and repair everything myself wherever possible. Usually the only issue is the availability of spare parts.
If you've to call some service technician here it will cost you easily at least USD 500.00 (converted from CHF) without any spare parts included so good tools are a good investment. Never had to call a service guy since decades excepted to replace a wide external roller blind which would have a PITA to do.
Sadly it's often less expensive to replace some household appliance by a low-cost model than repairing an existing one if you can't repair it yourself. At hourly rates which can exceed (currency-converted) USD 150.00, and you've to add driving time and mileage, many will throw away something which could easily be repaired. Sometimes it's just a plug, cord or a seal.
Sorry for the Sunday digression.
The spare part set 4240 for the 424 (3/8") is no longer in the catalog and IIRC the spare part kit for the 403 (1/4") has never existed though for both the 424 (3/8") and 403 (1/4") spare parts exist.
And BTW, the sliding T-handles 425 (3/8") and 506 (1/2") have been manufactured both with removable and non-removable sliding part. For the 404 (1/4") I don't remember right now.
These are some examples of Stahlwille tools where different versions exist with the exact same article #, it also applies to the 532 (1/2") long handle classic 36 teeth ratchet where one version is with a fixed handle and one with a very convenient removable handle like the 552 (3/4") and 882 (1") ratchet heads. Many dealers have never seen the 532 (1/2") with removable handle version.
Some details are so subtle that probably even some internal Stahlwille salesrep don't know about. Also AFAIK Stahlwille never gave out comprehensive spare part lists. Here many officially not indivdually sold spare parts can be found but it's not alway easy to know exactly which parts are compatible due to some version updates.
I usually don't repair Stahlwille tools but happen know how to repair some of them, including many mechanical Manoskop torque wrenches and probably all ratchet models. For many ratchets spare part sets are available, and in addtion some unlisted spare parts can be found, for the Manoskop only few spare parts are officially made available, overall there are several hundred different spare parts just for the mechanical torque wrenches and maybe roughly 100 to 200 for ratchets but I never checked it in detail.
In addition there are unlisted spare parts for various tools. There are also spare parts that are no longer officially available.
Since the owner family Wille retired from the management, Stahlwille has become much more profit-oriented and many great tools are no longer manufatcured due to low sales volumes OTOH they invested in the development of less robust new tool versions.
I'm totally unrelated to Stahlwille or to any representative, distributor or reseller. I just happen to know some details because I use their tools since my childhood and always try to maintain and repair everything myself wherever possible. Usually the only issue is the availability of spare parts.
If you've to call some service technician here it will cost you easily at least USD 500.00 (converted from CHF) without any spare parts included so good tools are a good investment. Never had to call a service guy since decades excepted to replace a wide external roller blind which would have a PITA to do.
Sadly it's often less expensive to replace some household appliance by a low-cost model than repairing an existing one if you can't repair it yourself. At hourly rates which can exceed (currency-converted) USD 150.00, and you've to add driving time and mileage, many will throw away something which could easily be repaired. Sometimes it's just a plug, cord or a seal.
Sorry for the Sunday digression.
How did I miss this thread?
I'm too basically a Hazet fan and most my car sockets and ratchets are from them but wanted a 3/8 long flexhead. As was said, our choices in Europe are limited.
Thought about getting a snapon FHLHF80A but the hassle of finding someone to buy it, send it to me in Greece and pay customs on top didn't look like a great proposition so got a Stahlwiile 452QR for half the money.
Why you say youre not happy with it? Its really good. Backdrag is half of the Hazet hiper ratchets and the "fixed" locking positions are not really a limiting factor when using the ratchet, more of a problem in someone's head. Its quite strong and of course I'm not going to be replacing tyres with it, or put a cheater bar on it, I have other tools for that...
Is the snapon better? Probably. But this ratchet is a good tool the limited time I've used it; I'm DIY, so its not used daily.
I'm too basically a Hazet fan and most my car sockets and ratchets are from them but wanted a 3/8 long flexhead. As was said, our choices in Europe are limited.
Thought about getting a snapon FHLHF80A but the hassle of finding someone to buy it, send it to me in Greece and pay customs on top didn't look like a great proposition so got a Stahlwiile 452QR for half the money.
Why you say youre not happy with it? Its really good. Backdrag is half of the Hazet hiper ratchets and the "fixed" locking positions are not really a limiting factor when using the ratchet, more of a problem in someone's head. Its quite strong and of course I'm not going to be replacing tyres with it, or put a cheater bar on it, I have other tools for that...
Is the snapon better? Probably. But this ratchet is a good tool the limited time I've used it; I'm DIY, so its not used daily.
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How long have you been using the Stahlwille? Is it holding up?How did I miss this thread?
I'm too basically a Hazet fan and most my car sockets and ratchets are from them but wanted a 3/8 long flexhead. As was said, our choices in Europe are limited.
Thought about getting a snapon FHLHF80A but the hassle of finding someone to buy it, send it to me in Greece and pay customs on top didn't look like a great proposition so got a Stahlwiile 452QR for half the money.
Why you say youre not happy with it? Its really good. Backdrag is half of the Hazet hiper ratchets and the "fixed" locking positions are not really a limiting factor when using the ratchet, more of a problem in someone's head. Its quite strong and of course I'm not going to be replacing tyres with it, or put a cheater bar on it, I have other tools for that...
Is the snapon better? Probably. But this ratchet is a good tool the limited time I've used it; I'm DIY, so its not used daily.
I work on my two cars and a friend's, so its not getting used a lot. But I used it a lot when I got it to get the feel for it and was happy. Audi steering rack removal and refit, twice, some suspension work, spark plugs etc.
If it comes to that, I don't expect Stahlwille warranty to be a problem, like most named brand tools.
Some people have suggested that Hazet may sell factory seconds in Amazon, and I have warrantied a few Hazet tools directly with them for that reason. Everything Stahlwille Ive bought from Amazon de has been flawless.
I’ve no experience with Stahlwille, but of my several ratchets, the only one I prefer over my Koken 24-tooth ratchet is my Koken 72-tooth ratchet. I also have a 72-tooth MAC and 60-tooth SK (among others), both of which I absolutely love, but they are both seriously outclassed by the Kokens with respect to how they feel in use.
For most uses, 24 teeth won’t be a limiting factor. 15 degrees between teeth is only 2 1/2 minutes around a clock face. Most times, for most people, there will be at least that much space to work with.
For most uses, 24 teeth won’t be a limiting factor. 15 degrees between teeth is only 2 1/2 minutes around a clock face. Most times, for most people, there will be at least that much space to work with.
I have the Stahlwille in 3/8" (452QR) and a number of Koken Zeal 72t ratchets (flex head, non-locking). While I like the locking function on the Stahwille, in my opinion Koken makes a better ratchet. The fit and finish is superb and the light action cannot be beat. The Stahlwille's plastic cover plate has not given me any problems but is not confidence inspiring.
Yes, I was between the two when I got the Stahlwille. Realistically, for someone in Europe you have these two options for a long flexhead. In America choices are plenty.