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Learn me about drill bits

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expatriated

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I have an old Black and Decker drill bit set for use around the house. They are solid black (don't know the material) and they ****. Several have broken just doing what I would call basic home repair. Like, just drilling into a stud, they break. Some do not seem to bite into material either, just sort of spins on top.

When I go to look for a new set, I see cobalt, titanium, black oxide (this what I have now?), etc. I get confused.

What material and brand should I be considering? This is for around the house use but I want to buy near/at the higher end of quality, I have generally found I get screwed when buying stuff marketed toward homeowners.

Thanks.
 
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wreckercologist

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If you want to save a little money and skip the cobalts, which happen to be more brittle and prone to break, look for a set of polished HSS(high speed steel) drills. These will work for most tasks, and will be cheaper than Cobalt.

The titainium coated will be more durable, but watch out, some of the cheaper titainium drill sets use a cheaper grade of tool steel. Once the coating wears off, they are junk.

I'm not a fan of using Cobalt in a hand drill myself, due to their tendency to break when used this way, but they will be hard enough for pretty much any job you come across. I think they're great when used on a Bridgeport or drill press.

I really like drills that have a flatted shank. Much better to use with a keyless chuck as long as you line up the flats with the jaws.

The general rule is: The more you spend, the better the tool!
 
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nissan_crawler

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I would get bosch. I'm extremly pissed after spiraling up two of my dewalt replacements I got. If they so much as catch a burr of metal at the end of a hole, you twist the shank. Horsecrap. If they broke, I could see it, but twisting?
 
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speed bump

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Vermont American makes some decent bits if they are the US made ones.

If you want the best look no further than either Consolidated-Toledo or Norseman. Your looking at about $85-100 for the 29 PC gold coated bits but they last well and compared to the Dewalt or Bosch or just about anything in metal they go better without lube than the others go with lube.

Although if all your drilling is wood and plastic my $5 HF drill bit set does that just fine and more than fast enough.
 
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t100

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cobalt is designed for hardened steel, if you wanna drill a hole through a stack of leaf springs, or some thing like that. it's very brittle, and normally used on a drill press, not handheld. HSS is good all around drill bits. most of the time my drill bits fail due to i screwed up, wrong speed, wobbling hands or lack of proper lubrication. good thing about HSS is you can re-sharpen it pretty easily if the shaft isn't bent. home improvement store brands such as Dewalt and Milwakee worked ok for me, but i don't do serious stuff. i also heard Vermont America kicks *** but i only have few and never got a chance to use them.
 
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JakeD

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Really you probably don't need titanium or cobalt bits if you're not drilling something like stainless or hardened steel.
 
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tpolley

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if you're breaking bits you probably don't have a good grip on the drill or you're not holding thr drill straight. a friend of mine would break 2 or 3 bits whenever we'd work on one of his projects. i got to looking and found he was pushing the drill to one side and flexing th bit thereby breaking it.
 
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Nolan

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nissan_crawler said:
I would get bosch. I'm extremly pissed after spiraling up two of my dewalt replacements I got. If they so much as catch a burr of metal at the end of a hole, you twist the shank. Horsecrap. If they broke, I could see it, but twisting?
Click to expand...

Over the years, I've worn out, dulled, burnt out, and broken off untold numbers of drill bits using hand drills and drill presses. But, I have NEVER NEVER spiralled the shank or body of a conventional drill bit or for that matter even heard of that being done until now.

Sure, if you put one in a bind, they'll snap off or slip in the chuck. All of us have had that happen. But to actually twist into a spiral? Wow.

I'm guessing that these must have been made in a country with a rich tradition of lead painted kids toys and toxic cat food, correct?

What do you think, faulty heat treatment, substandard alloy, or a combination of both?

The only bit's I've ever twisted or seen twisted were the old paddle bits for drilling wood. With the three flats for the chuck to grip and the soft shanks, if you tagged a nail or a hard knot, you could easily twist the shank.

For what it's worth, I've found that most people run the belts way too tight on their drill presses for normal usage anyway. I prefer that the belt slip if that hard to replace US made 3/8" bit gets into a bind rather than snapping it off. Naturally drilling a 1 inch hole thru a piece of plate requires more belt tension.

I try to be as careful as I can with the drill bits and taps that I have. I can't buy an American made drill bit or tap locally at all any more.
 
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speed bump

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Nolan said:
Over the years, I've worn out, dulled, burnt out, and broken off untold numbers of drill bits using hand drills and drill presses. But, I have NEVER NEVER spiralled the shank or body of a conventional drill bit or for that matter even heard of that being done until now.

Sure, if you put one in a bind, they'll snap off or slip in the chuck. All of us have had that happen. But to actually twist into a spiral? Wow.

I'm guessing that these must have been made in a country with a rich tradition of lead painted kids toys and toxic cat food, correct?

What do you think, faulty heat treatment, substandard alloy, or a combination of both?

The only bit's I've ever twisted or seen twisted were the old paddle bits for drilling wood. With the three flats for the chuck to grip and the soft shanks, if you tagged a nail or a hard knot, you could easily twist the shank.

For what it's worth, I've found that most people run the belts way too tight on their drill presses for normal usage anyway. I prefer that the belt slip if that hard to replace US made 3/8" bit gets into a bind rather than snapping it off. Naturally drilling a 1 inch hole thru a piece of plate requires more belt tension.

I try to be as careful as I can with the drill bits and taps that I have. I can't buy an American made drill bit or tap locally at all any more.
Click to expand...

Taps can be had from VA or Irwin Hanson (for atleast a little while longer) that are US made and most local welding shops or Fastenals sell US made drill bits.
 
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nissan_crawler

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Nolan said:
Over the years, I've worn out, dulled, burnt out, and broken off untold numbers of drill bits using hand drills and drill presses. But, I have NEVER NEVER spiralled the shank or body of a conventional drill bit or for that matter even heard of that being done until now.

Sure, if you put one in a bind, they'll snap off or slip in the chuck. All of us have had that happen. But to actually twist into a spiral? Wow.

I'm guessing that these must have been made in a country with a rich tradition of lead painted kids toys and toxic cat food, correct?

What do you think, faulty heat treatment, substandard alloy, or a combination of both?

The only bit's I've ever twisted or seen twisted were the old paddle bits for drilling wood. With the three flats for the chuck to grip and the soft shanks, if you tagged a nail or a hard knot, you could easily twist the shank.

For what it's worth, I've found that most people run the belts way too tight on their drill presses for normal usage anyway. I prefer that the belt slip if that hard to replace US made 3/8" bit gets into a bind rather than snapping it off. Naturally drilling a 1 inch hole thru a piece of plate requires more belt tension.

I try to be as careful as I can with the drill bits and taps that I have. I can't buy an American made drill bit or tap locally at all any more.
Click to expand...

The sad part is, the belts are set to slip, and they did, but not before the bit twisted up. The bosch counterparts had no such issues.
 
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HandyManny

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I've never had any of this happen with drill bits either. But that's not to say that someone hasn't gotten a set of bits that fell through the cracks of quality control at the factory. Bad steel, bad heat treatment, neglegent worker at the plant that day, who knows what could happen.
 
B

Bolster

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nissan_crawler said:
I would get bosch. I'm extremly pissed after spiraling up two of my dewalt replacements I got. If they so much as catch a burr of metal at the end of a hole, you twist the shank. Horsecrap. If they broke, I could see it, but twisting?
Click to expand...

Just thinking...maybe these bits are differentially hardened? Are they leaving the shank intentionally soft for additional toughness? You know, the "samurai blade" method: hard edge, soft back?
 
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Zrexxer

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Frankly I'm surprised at all the recommendations for box-store-brand bits. DeWalt bits are hands down some of the worst I've ever used, trailing behind even some Chinese bits. Bosch is marginal... if you don't expect too much from them.

REAL drill bit manufacturers include names like Cleveland Twist Drill, Chicago-Latrobe, Precision Twist Drill (often seen as PTD), and Triumph. A good set of plain, black oxide HSS twist drills from any of these manufacturers will last most users a lifetime if used properly and maintained.
 
M

mrb

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Zrexxer said:
Frankly I'm surprised at all the recommendations for box-store-brand bits. DeWalt bits are hands down some of the worst I've ever used, trailing behind even some Chinese bits. Bosch is marginal... if you don't expect too much from them.

REAL drill bit manufacturers include names like Cleveland Twist Drill, Chicago-Latrobe, Precision Twist Drill (often seen as PTD), and Triumph. A good set of plain, black oxide HSS twist drills from any of these manufacturers will last most users a lifetime if used properly and maintained.
Click to expand...

cleveland and chicago (all the kenametal brands) were sold to the chinese earlier this year :mad:
 
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Zrexxer

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mrb said:
cleveland and chicago (all the kenametal brands) were sold to the chinese earlier this year :mad:
Click to expand...
Well that ***** big time. I'm STILL using Cleveland bits I inherited from my Grandfather.

But I wouldn't buy a DeWalt bit just the same.
 
W

walrus

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JakeD said:
Really you probably don't need titanium or cobalt bits if you're not drilling something like stainless or hardened steel.
Click to expand...

t100 said:
cobalt is designed for hardened steel, if you wanna drill a hole through a stack of leaf springs, or some thing like that.
Click to expand...

I use 1/8 cobalts for pilot holes, work great and last a long time
 
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scooby074

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Dormer, Cleveland or Trimuph. Will last a lifetime with proper use.

Good bits you pay once. Cheap bits you pay MANY times, and not just money.
 
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HandyManny

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Zrexxer said:
Frankly I'm surprised at all the recommendations for box-store-brand bits. DeWalt bits are hands down some of the worst I've ever used, trailing behind even some Chinese bits. Bosch is marginal... if you don't expect too much from them.

REAL drill bit manufacturers include names like Cleveland Twist Drill, Chicago-Latrobe, Precision Twist Drill (often seen as PTD), and Triumph. A good set of plain, black oxide HSS twist drills from any of these manufacturers will last most users a lifetime if used properly and maintained.
Click to expand...

Why? For general home useage and for drilling into 2X4 studs or any demensional lumber I see nothing lacking in any of the bits from Irwin, DeWalt, Bosch, Vermont American, etc. Just saying that they always worked for me and I once briefly installed windows and skylights for a living.
 
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blackice

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the best bits I have ever used where from Wurth. We had them at shop I used to work at. I don't remember what they where made of, but they seemed to rip thru everything, and stay sharp forever. They wheren't cheap, I priced out a complete set for myself, and it was over $200
 
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arkangel06

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Anyone remember the name of those new german made powder metal drillbits they are supposed to be the cats *** I just cant remember the name of them
 
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dede2897234

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Diggers4life,

I own several Nachi cobalt screw machine drills. I purchased them from a local industrial tool supplier. Nachi is a Japanese company. However, the Nachi drills I own were manufactured in Singapore. They're of excellent quality. They drilled through steel plate like butter!

Dave
 
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scooby074

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Guhring are AMAZING drills. Probably the best ive ever used hands down.

I thought Dormer were out of the UK?
 
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Kevin54

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A drill bit is only going to be as good as the guy (or gal ) on the end of the drill. If you don't learn a little something about feeds, speeds, and material characteristics, then that $120 set of bits will not be any better than a $20 set of bits. I can use cheap Westward bits at work and drill, stainless steel, cold rolled, tool steel, and titanium and the bit will still be sharp. You give another person a piece of sheet stainless and they will go through 3 or 4 different style of bits to get a hole through it. Sometimes a pilot hole is needed before you grab the 3/4" drill bit and try to horse it through a piece of steel. Most people just want to grab a bit and go for it instead of taking some time, then spend 10 times as long trying to get the hole through because they burnt up the bit or work hardened the part being drilled
 
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HandyManny

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I agree to a certain extent. Would have said the same thing, but some people may get a bit defensive or offended if you suggest that they don't know how to use their tools correctly.

Experience learns ya.
 
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scooby074

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Of course feed and speed are important, but quality steel is even more so.

I needed a number set once (for some sizes that i didnt have singles of), and going against my better judgement bought some chicom ****.... Stuff must have been made out of peanut butter.... just looking at the things caused them to dull.

Then under inspection the geometry of the point was all wrong, plus the flutes were different from drill to drill!!! pure junk.

Most of my drilling is fractional (so i have quality fractional bits), but one of these days im going get a high quality number index too.
 
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