Let's try this again - Garage Attic project

[topperdude]

Howdy (again)!

As indicated in my previous/first post, I am considering installing an attic ladder in my garage followed by installing some plywood flooring in the garage attic so that the area can be used for storage.

To answer 930dreamer's question in my previous post, there is an existing opening in the garage ceiling which allows access to the attic area, tho' I understand the opening will have to be widened to accommodate the folding attic ladder.

Re. the ladder itself, the height from garage floor to ceiling is 11.5ft and the garage trusses are installed 24" on center. Most stores (Home Depot, Menards, etc) dont carry such tall ladders and I was advised to check on their online stores. Came across this Louisville Ladder as well as this one from Century at Home Depot online.

Would appreciate suggestions/recoomendations for ladders (incl any besides the two I have linked above) that might work well as well as pros/cons of one brand vs another and whether some of the expensive ones (like Century above) are worth it?

Also, since the ceiling is 11.5 ft high, how would i pull the ladder down when needed and conversely push it back up in the ceiling when done with it?

Have attached few pictures in case they help.

Thanks for any input,
-Topper

 

[TWX]

Just be careful, sometimes the roof trusses are only meant to bear the weight of the sheetrock, insulation, and lighting, and won't really bear a lot more weight than that for the long haul. A friend of mine had stored a bunch of stuff in the roof of his previous house, and when they went to move out and unloaded the attic, probably dozens of nailheads poked through as the attic relaxed back to its original shape with the weight released.

 

[Krash Kadillak]

I'm in the process with the same project, except my garage ceiling height is what you would consider 'standard'. I chose a fold-up aluminum ladder from Werner. It wasn't really any more expensive than a wood ladder, and also has gas assist struts instead of the spring-loaded spring bars.

I did have a couple of problems with the installation. When I first hoisted the ladder unit up into the opening, it wouldnt fit properly because the plywood 'door' (or cover) wasn't 'square' to the ladder frame. I had to lower it down and temporarily nail the plywood to the frame. Also, pay very close attention to making your rough opening 'square' and to the proper dimensions, including the dimensions for whatever temporary supports you put up.

The second problem I had was the cutting of the bottom ladder section. I needed to cut off about 13" of the ladder section to make it the correct height, and I ended up cutting one side too short by about 1/2". Ithink if I had had a helper on the measuring by holding the ladder in position, i wouldn't have made that mistake.

 

[Matt M PA]

In my attached garage, I used one of those telescoping type of aluminum ladders. I think made made by Werner. It tilts up out of the way for the trap door to close. It also came with an adjustable pole with a hook type thing on the end to assist in opening and closing the trap door as well as tilt and expand the ladder.

 

[nwi45]

How do you tell if your attic is meant to bear weight or just for support of drywall and insulTion? I was looking at doing the same in my insulated attic

 

[danski0224]

The commonly available pull down attic ladders are not fire rated.

This can be a problem when they are installed in the ceiling of an attached garage.

The 5/8" fire rated drywall and wall assembly of an attached garage is the only thing providing fire separation from the living area.

Standard roof trusses are not designed for storage of any type, especially in a long span like a garage. They are sized for insulation and drywall. Specialized "room in attic" trusses can be used to provide storage if sized accordingly.

Lumber span tables will provide information about allowable loading.

Odds are, due to the cost cutting nature of residential construction, that the garage attic space should not be used for storage. Drywall + insulation is heavy enough.

People add other stuff and can get out of hand.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

First and foremost- trusses (Fink and Howe are probably the most common) are not designed for storage. That why there's only a scuttle-hole. IRC has code restrictions that specifically address the issue of pulldown stairs and scuttle-holes in regards to the structural integrity of the ceiling/roof design.

 

[jake26]

In my quest for a dream garage, I also wanted to add storage to my garage attic but I didn't have the extra 2K for storage trusses when we built our house. What I did was add three (3) 14" x 26' beams and bolted them together and attached 8" joist to them so they were 1" off the existing trusses.

Now I have a 20' x 24' storage area in my garage attic, complete with shelves, lighting and a fold down ladder. The beam cost about $400 and I spent another $200 on decking and $200 on the ladder.

You can find lots of attic ladders at:

http://www.industrialladder.com/listProducts.do?categoryID=643

I found their prices very reasonable and when a part was constructed wrong, they quickly sent out a replacement.

My ladder was 22" wide but if I were do it again, I would cut into the joist and install a 30" version. The 22" is pretty tight when carrying boxes up a ladder.

 

[rsa]

Try searching on the forum for bessler. A second forum search for rainbow attic will also turn up threads.

I'll avoid the "you can't and besides you shouldn't" issues, except to say that the companies mentioned below offer fire-rated stairs, but perhaps not in your "size". Here's an example, the Bessler BE-119, with an ASTM E-119 certified one-hour fire-rating. Only goes to 10' 6" and is only rated for 350 pounds. I guess you could slide a portable "landing" for the legs to rest on to make up the extra foot.

The aforementioned Bessler has heavy-duty, sliding attic-ladders. They're expensive and you need lots of clearance in the attic for the ladder. Here's the Bessler 26T that is rated at 600 pounds and will do your 11.5 ceiling.

American Stairways (also a Bessler company) has the Husky 1200 Aluminum Stairway.

Also take a look at Rainbow. It's what I have in my home and am 100% a believer. It's "only" rated at 350 pounds, but it's had over 500 on it. Take a look at their M2254H.

There's also a DIY approach here on the forum by IDASHO: link

You can also poke around on youtube for more garage attic stair/ladder shenanigans. Examples:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8QlEnVhoq4M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TROO7d7OShM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Or you could just ask What Would Jack Do?

 

[Zeke]

A good lumber yard usually has attic stairs for ceilings up to 12' in stock. If not, they can get one in short order. I can't advise on structure or fire code without more info.

But no one that I saw said how you get it down when it's high up. Usually there's a rope to pull on. If you don't like that, there's a hook and pole set up. If the first section is still too high top operate when pulled down, get the hook and pole with 2 hooks.

 

[camarotoolman]

I'm no engineer, but I think you could just nail or bolt some 2x6 or 2x8 on the bottom cord of the truss and it would be strong enough for stuff , house hold junk etc. Not recomended for eng. blocks, heads, stacks of lumber etc.!

 

[bad_idea]

In my quest for a dream garage, I also wanted to add storage to my garage attic but I didn't have the extra 2K for storage trusses when we built our house. What I did was add three (3) 14" x 26' beams and bolted them together and attached 8" joist to them so they were 1" off the existing trusses.

Now I have a 20' x 24' storage area in my garage attic, complete with shelves, lighting and a fold down ladder. The beam cost about $400 and I spent another $200 on decking and $200 on the ladder.

this sounds interesting, but i am not following you. is there anyway you could snap a couple pics? thanks.

 

[jake26]

this sounds interesting, but i am not following you. is there anyway you could snap a couple pics? thanks.

Since most of the garage is already insulated, these are the only pics I could take.



Here you can see the beam. It rest on top of a perpendicular beam (12") that spans my garage door. I added that beam as insurance so my garage door doesn't sag. You can also see the joist hangers that support 8" beams to the paraell wall.



Here is the beam looking up. My garage roof is pitched so the last 4' of the attic space is pretty useless but I installed a little stop fence to prevent boxes from falling off the decking.



Here is a look inside the attic.

I am sure there is a better way of doing this but I am not very handy and have never built anything in my life. This project is a "learn as you go" experiment.

 

[topperdude]

Hey all!

Thanks for all the responses, links and pictures!

Before anything else, I should clarify that I only plan to store relatively light (but bulky) stuff such as empty boxes, Xmas decorations, kids' car seats/jumpers/etc and such. Heavier things such as lawnmower, snowblower and even 40lb topsoil bags will stay on shelves and floor of the main garage area.

Even so, I was also concerned about whether plywood floor drilled into the trusses (kinda like the third picture in the last post by jake26) would be strong enough to hold this weight. I talked to my neighbor (who actually installed the roof shingles, not trusses tho, of our house when we built it in 2006) as well as someone from the county building safety department. My neighbor had gone up in the attic couple times and said it should not be a problem for not too heavy stuff. The person from the county building safety department looked at the documentation for our house on their record and said based on the trusses used, it should be good enough for "20lbs/ft of dead weight" and said something about "2x4 bottom cord" - not sure what she meant about "bottom cord" but I noticed someone else mentioned it here as well and would appreciate any clarification on that.

Appreciate the input regarding the fire rating/safety (or lack thereof) with attic ladders - but wouldnt that be an issue now as well with just the scuttle hole? Perhaps I dont understand fully how adding the attic ladder would change the fire rating of the garage from what it is today - appreciate any clarifications.

Thanks again for all the great input and keep them coming
-Topper

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

The bottom cord of a truss is the part that becomes the ceiling "joist".

 

[jake26]

A year ago, I was asking these same questions and I found out that ...

Unless you specifically order trusses made for extra weight, you cannot exceed more than 10 lbs Per Sq. Ft. Dead Load Only!! That is the equivalent of drywall and the extra weight could (most likely) cause your roof to deform and that could lead to cracks, drainage problems, nail pops, etc ...

If you were ever to be inspected for an insurance claim, adding extra weight to your trusses can be grounds to be dropped by your insurance company. They don't want your roof to collapse anymore than you do.

Lastly, because your truss system acts as a lift to hold your roof, the middle space in your garage is the STRONGEST. My architect friend calculated that the middle 5' x 12' of my garage attic (garage is 25' x 26') was the safest place to go for LIGHT storage.

I am only repeating what I was told so take it as you would like. I went through all the hoops because I wanted to insure my roof (and family) was safe. In retrospect, I wish I had purchased the storage trusses.

 

[Falcon67]

Unless you specifically order trusses made for extra weight, you cannot exceed more than 10 lbs Per Sq. Ft. Dead Load Only!! That is the equivalent of drywall and the extra weight could (most likely) cause your roof to deform and that could lead to cracks, drainage problems, nail pops, etc ...

Drywall installed is usually figured at 5 lb sq/ft. 5/8 drywall sheets weigh 2.2 lbs sq/ft per USG
http://www.usg.com/rc/data-submitta...s-regular-firecode-cores-submittal-WB1473.pdf

So light storage around 5 lbs sq/ft would likely be all right. Figure maybe 1.5~1.8 lb sq/ft for 7/16 OSB decking too.

 

[Plump]

I made my own since I didn't want a ladder but stairs for moving items in and out of the attic. I routed the riser and slid the treads in for strength. Carabiners hold the stairs up when not in use and a garage spring helps take some of the weight off of pushing it to the ceiling.

I stacked 2x8's together and sent three lag screws through it onto the reinforced trusses so that I had somewhere to mount the hinge. The hinge is simply large lag bolts through some leftover laminate beams. No questioning the strength of those puppies!

Works like a charm and I can easily walk up and down with full use of two hands to carry. I also put a hinged door on the scuttle hole with insulation to keep the heat in during the winter.