Lighting suggestion for a 19x25 garage

[babzog]

Hey folks,

Trying to get an idea of the best lighting layout for a garaged this size. Currently, it only has 4 bulbs in that space, which is not bright at all (fine for parking but not nearly bright enough for working).

Ceiling is drywalled, walls are OSB. Nothing was insulated when the house was built. No painting was done. In fact, most of the tapes the builder installed on the ceiling have dropped off.

If I were to install flourescent lighting, what would you suggest as a layout for general maintenance type work? I typically only put one car in the garage (in the middle) when I'm working soas to gain working space.

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[ripsnortMN]

I have a 20'x22' garage and am installing four eight foot, dual bulb florecent lights. I am spacing them evenly in the garage.

 

[sammerdog]

If your neck of Ontario sees long stretches of frigid cold temps, you may want to re-think the flourescent idea. Over the years I have tried the different "T" designations coupled with various "low temperature" balasts. They all gave me fits with flickering and/or no-starts in the cold.

I have since gone full circle to normal incandescent screw in bulbs. Sometimes the simplest ideas are the best.

 

[pipehack]

I use those daylight bulbs in my fixture and I love those things. plenty of light. A little on the expensive side though.

 

[sammerdog]

^^^^^^ Are daylight bulbs the cork-screw shaped rascals? or are daylight bulbs the "Reveal" that are shaped like normal bulbs but throw off full-spectrum lighting (those are great for reading lamps)?

 

[babzog]

Sammerdog: That's a very interesting observation! Yes, we do get long stretches of cold here in the Valley. The garage is not quite as cold as outside, even though it's not insulated. The shop though, get very cold - the flourescents I have out there (which are older 8' freebies with dodgy ballasts) give me quite the hum and lots of "crawling" in the tubes and take a while to warm up. Actually, even now they hum and crawl...

Incandescents are certainly cheap though I'd imagine I'd need a pile of 'em. We recently renovated a former attached dog kennel into an office and I put in 9 halogen pot lights. It's bright enough in here, but it's not operating theater bright.. not like some of the shop pics I've seen here. I'd certainly want it whiter and brighter for working on the car.

 

[Harm]

I'm pretty much at the same step you are, choosing and laying out lights. I suggest going to the store and picking up a variety of compact fluorescent bulbs. Be sure to get different wattages and color temperatures. Then try them out in your current fixtures. This will give you a good idea of what quality light works best for you in the space. It will also give you a lumen baseline to build your permanent tube bulb layout from. Incandescent bulb lumen ratings are hard to find, but fluorescent tubes are pretty much primarily listed by lumen rating, and then color temp.
The CFLs go Soft white, Bright white, and Daylight. I can't stand the daylight bulbs, they're very blue, very bright, and seem to cycle a touch too slowly. However, mixing and matching color temps is neat.

 

[nate379]

Have not have issues in any of the garages I've worked in. My Dad's shop isnt' normally heated and the lights will work just fine with it being -35* in there.

If your neck of Ontario sees long stretches of frigid cold temps, you may want to re-think the flourescent idea. Over the years I have tried the different "T" designations coupled with various "low temperature" balasts. They all gave me fits with flickering and/or no-starts in the cold.

I have since gone full circle to normal incandescent screw in bulbs. Sometimes the simplest ideas are the best.

 

[sammerdog]

Have not have issues in any of the garages I've worked in. My Dad's shop isnt' normally heated and the lights will work just fine with it being -35* in there.

Nate379 - not a big deal, but next time you're over at your Dad's shop, maybe take a look for a manufacturer on his lights (...and bulbs maybe?). You have me curious.

The last fluorescent fixtures I tried were from Crescent lighting.... those were non-lighting when it got down below 15* F. I think my bulbs were GE.

 

[rocco]

if you use a striplight with 4ft T8 lamps, coupled with a commercial grade CEE approved ballast, they have a cold start capability of -29C. thats more then you need even in these parts.

 

[rocco]

Nate379 - not a big deal, but next time you're over at your Dad's shop, maybe take a look for a manufacturer on his lights (...and bulbs maybe?). You have me curious.

The last fluorescent fixtures I tried were from Crescent lighting.... those were non-lighting when it got down below 15* F. I think my bulbs were GE.

in the Case of T8 lamps, you need to ahve an electronic ballast with cold temp starting capabilities of -29, that will assure that they will turn on in the cold. old T12HO fixtures used to work fine in the cold temp, bu that is archaiic technology and not efficient either. T5's don't like the cold, use caution if you go that route (enclosed fixture, special ballast, etc...)

 

[sammerdog]

If a ballast is marked CEE, will it automatically be capable of operating in lower temps? ...or will there be a designation on the box I should look for to get a cold weather unit?

 

[walrus]

If a ballast is marked CEE, will it automatically be capable of operating in lower temps? ...or will there be a designation on the box I should look for to get a cold weather unit?

Usually the temp is marked on the ballast .

 

[T VETTE]

Have not have issues in any of the garages I've worked in. My Dad's shop isnt' normally heated and the lights will work just fine with it being -35* in there.

How do you do anything in the garage at -35 anyway

I just bought a new home and it came with a 3 car and two fluorescent twin small tubes. Hit the switch and instant light. I brought my old 30yr hanging big tube lights and seems they are out dated. Should I toss them and look into some more of these small skinny tube type to finish the coverage?
Sorry for the slight hijack.

 

[Brickman]

GE EcoLux T5 Bulbs

Very Bright

 

[babzog]

Hey guys, no problems at all on any perceived "hijacks" though T VETTE might have more views and thoughts in a new thread. Just a friendly suggestion, no disrespect intended.

Overall, I've been enjoying the discussion and comparing notes here to other threads. I noticed this thread where a member named ROCCO posted some analysis pics. His second pic, though showing ganged 8' striplights, might work for me, scaling back to 3 rows of 2 8' lights (IOW, same pic, except that instead of each "block" being two 8' lights, it would be just one).

For work areas, I like the whiter light thrown by the flourescents so I'm still leaning toward them.

I know I can pick up an 8', cold temp rated, 2 -tube striplight from Lowe's for < $60. Times that by 6... would you think that's good enough to light it up for the local surgeon?

 

[babzog]

Metal Halide just became a possibility!!

Wow! I just received an offer for some metal halide lights. I think this is a good deal but wanted to run it by you good folks for your thoughts and advice.

I tried searching on the Symban Lighting website for the number but didn't find a match.. maybe these are slightly older or from a different catalog. Won't know till I contact the company directly.

There are five of one type, with shades and seven of another.. unknown if they have shades or not (don't think so).

The batch of five appear to be 120/277/347V lights and the batch of seven indicate they're wired for 347 but also say they'e multi voltage ballasts.

As I was originally thinking of flourescents, I hadn't planned on much more than running another circuit for 120V. With these however, more questions arise. How would I have to wire these - 120V or 240V? Given my garage size, how many of these would I require for a nice, bright shop? How much power will these puppies consume?

How much would these lights normally retail for and what would be a good price for used (or possibly older but unused, as these appear to be)?

The pics I recieved from the seller:

He's got five of these:

And seven of these:

And my garage space:

 

[tfi racing]

I would go with Rocco's advice,T-8' are the way to go.As for the MH Hi Bay fixtures,unless you have a 18+ foot ceiling height,you won't be happy with them.You should also fix up your drywall and give it a coat of paint,that alone will brighten the place up considerably,and help direct the light to where you want it.

 

[babzog]

Hey tfi,

I appreciate the thoughts. Why do you feel I'd not be happy with the MH lights? I just measured the ceiling height and it's 10'3"... is that still too low for these lights to be effective?

My thoughts for the MH lights were sparked by BMWPower's garage with 14'3" ceilings and low-bay MH lights. Are the lights I've been offered significantly different that what he used in his shop?

Fixing drywall and painting the whole of it is part of the plan (need to build some scaffold first to deal with the ceiling) and I'm still debating whether or not ($$ is the deciding factor) to rip off the OSB and insulate/install new wiring or just paint and live with the winter cold (no plans to heat it any time soon anyway).

 

[tfi racing]

First of all won't you be able to hit them with your forehead?
There won't be much headroom hanging those lights under a 10 foot ceiling!I'm just guestimating,but it seems that the bulb would be about 9' off your floor,way too low for that type of fixture.

 

[babzog]

Hit my head? Not unless I'm on a ladder (I'm only 6' tall). LOL

I figured they'd hang 1-2' down from the ceiling but not knowing anything about them is why I asked. If 8'-9' to the bottom of the shade is too low to be effective, then I'll stick with the flourescents.

Buddy want's $125 ea which seems like a good price to me but (and I forget exactly how the saying goes but essentially) no price is a good price if it doesn't work.

 

[ArthurPE]

they will be too bright, especially at 8'...and too narrow of beam...

even low bays may not work on a 10' ceiling....

 

[babzog]

they will be too bright, especially at 8'...and too narrow of beam...

even low bays may not work on a 10' ceiling....

Hey ArthurPE,

That was exactly what I was looking for (not what I wanted to hear, but what I needed). And that confirms tfi racing's suggestion to stick with the flourescent fixtures.

If the HO T8's are throwing 65 watts per tube, then using a calculation from another thread, 6 8' twin tube fixtures should yield about 1.6 watts/ft... which, consensus here indicates, seems to be an acceptable amount of light.

Layout-wise, I'm thinking that 3 rows of two lights, spaced 2' from walls, 4' between the two in the row and 7.5' apart between rows would be my plan.

I'd previously considered running a separate circuit and still think I should. If the bulbs are 65 watts, then (2*65) watts / 120 volts = 1.1 amps * 6 fixtures = 6.5 amps. If these lights also share the circuit with two external garage lights, an exterior sodium vapour yard lamp (under the garage eaves) and the interiour plugs and door opener, would a new circuit continue to be the wise choice (for either the plugs or lights)?

Thanks again!

 

[babzog]

Well, as a stop-gap measure until I install some flourescents, I took sammerdog's advice and picked up some 150W clear glass incandescent bulbs. Compared to the 11W CFL bulbs that were out there, these babies are putting out nearly three times the light! 2570 lumens vs approx 900 for the CFL!

BIG difference! I briefly contemplated the 300W/5500 lumen "next step up" bulbs but decided these wouldn't drive my meter too crazy.

 

[slamed tudor]

Dude those high bay fixtures went out with the indians!!!!!! If you want high bay fixtures then t5's are the way to go. But sence you dont have the hight that you need than t8's are the way to go. If you have a electrical supply house that sells williams fixtures than they are set up to do you a lighting layout quote. This will give you the spacing and the light power that you need. Best of all its FREE!!!!!!