Lights for the Shed. Again!

[300ZX]

Hi Folks. The familiar story: Storage shed, 50 feet from the house, needs a couple of light fixtures and outlets. Nothing else, now or future. Money is tight, but want to do it right. After reading a million posts, the plan is:

GFCI 20A breaker at the main panel
14/2 or 12/2 UF to shed
12" deep trench (soil is a pain!)
no conduit except above ground for protection (nothing in the future, really!)
no subpanel
wire straight to switch (heavy duty?) in garage for the disconnect
split to light circuit and to an outlet circuit, both with 14/2

Sound like a [nice, cheap, simple] plan?

If so, my biggest question is the breaker for the main panel. Never dealt with putting in a new one, and I'm afraid, er, respectful of the juice there. In the 2 pics, my first concern is the red label that says "Use 2 Pole Breakers Only". That would really throw a wrench in the works. 2nd concern, is there room to put another breaker in there? Seems so, but didn't feel like sticking a metal tape measure in there...!

Thanks for any info!

 

[Jlarson]

Put in a 2 pole GFCI, this also gives you the option of running a MWBC on 12/3 to give you 2 circuits in the shed.

 

[thewatusi]

If you will be using a 20a breaker you must run 12awg wire.

 

[Mustang51js]

Use a normal single breaker and a blank for the empty spot,and put the gfi outlet in shed instead of a gif breaker if you want to save money

 

[CJ7VFR]

You should have a switch at the shed to disconnect power to the entire shed. I do believe this is an NEC requirement. The disconnect can be a simple snap switch.

Also, as Mustang said, having the GFCI at the shed instead of the panel in the garage is a good idea. It would eliminate the need to go back and forth from the shed to the garage if the circuit trips for some reason.

I have the same basic set up as you are asking about for my shed. If you do a 20 amp breaker, you must use at least 12 gage wire.

I was lucky in the fact that the previous owner of my home had a hot tub outside on the deck, and he had an exterior sub-panel installed for it.

I bought a single pole 20 amp GFCI breaker and installed it in the exterior sub-panel for my shed, which is also about 50 feet from the house just like yours. This enabled me to only have to bury my line 12 inches down because the line was GFCI protected at the source before it went into the ground. And where I live in New Jersey, the ground is mostly hard shale below about 15 inches, and its almost impossible to dig by hand. So going deeper would have required the use of a trench digger, and at the time, I could not afford that.

I was also on a budget, and I ran 12/2 UF-B wire from the sub-panel to the shed, protecting it in conduit where ever it came out of the ground at both the sub-panel and the shed.

I installed a simple snap switch in the shed to disconnect the power to the entire shed.

I don't work in the shed. It is only used for my lawn equipment. So all I needed was a simple circuit run to it for a two receptacles to plug in a battery tender for my lawn tractor, and two switches for lights on the inside and outside.

I didn't do a MWBC, as I did not need that. I would probably go that way if I did this now, but at the time, I could not afford the extra money for the 12/3 UF-B wire and the double pole GFCI 20 amp breaker.

Money was tight then, and I would rather eat than put that money in the ground. And the simple circuit has worked great for me for three years now.

Jim

 

[300ZX]

Thanks for the input guys. Yep, 20A requires 12ga everywhere. I knew that, my bad.

Key for me is a 12" deep trench with no conduit. Per code, that means single pole 20A GF at the main, right? No MWBC, no 2-pole allowed, right?

CJ7VFR, you're spot on with my situation, except you already had a subpanel, lucky dog.! A GF breaker at the shed for me means another panel + the breaker. Not worth it to me. It's a storage shed, nothing going on out there that's gonna trip a 20A breaker. In that rare event, I can handle the walk. What I didn't hear from anyone is CAN I PUT A SP BREAKER IN THIS BOX? Why the "2-POLE ONLY" label? Thanks for the input everyone.

 

[CJ7VFR]

Is there an actual label on the panel that says you can only install double pole breakers?
If not, then you can put in a single pole breaker if you want.

The double pole would allow a MWBC, which means you would have the lights on one breaker and the outlets on the other.

The MWBC affords you more options for power to the shed that is all.

Jim

 

[300ZX]

The red label at the bottom says USE TWO POLE BREAKERS ONLY.

 

[CJ7VFR]

Well, then there is your answer.

Before you go and buy a double pole breaker, get the name and model number of the panel, and Google it.

Maybe there is a way to put single pole breakers in there. I can't tell by the picture, but maybe the two phases of the panel are set up in a way that you can't install single pole breakers for a reason.

Maybe that panel is for items that require 240 volt service.

Jim

 

[300ZX]

see these pics

 

[300ZX]

Yeah, maybe it's 240 only, and the only 120 in the house comes off the 120 subpanel fed by this guy.

 

[CJ7VFR]

It looks like you could just add in a single pole breaker, but if the panel says not to, it must be for a safety reason.

Is it possible to run your shed wiring from the house sub panel instead of the garage panel?

Depending on the difference between the distance of the house panel and garage panel, you would have to figure out if it was cheaper to get a double pole GFCI breaker and less UF-B wire and connect to the garage panel, or get a single pole GFCI breaker and more UF-B wire and connect to the house panel.

How far is it from the shed to your house panel, if you had to make a guess? You said the garage panel is about 50 feet from the shed.

Jim

 

[theoldwizard1]

IMHO, use 12/3 UF and run 240V out there. Use a fused A/C disconnect to split the circuit into 2 - 120V circuits, one for lights, one for everything else. If you do blow a fuse, at least you will still have lights !

 

[CJ7VFR]

IMHO, use 12/3 UF and run 240V out there. Use a fused A/C disconnect to split the circuit into 2 - 120V circuits, one for lights, one for everything else. If you do blow a fuse, at least you will still have lights !

Are you talking about something like this?

And then add in the fuses to it in order to supply power to the disconnect?

Does this require a grounding rod at the shed?

Jim

 

[Jlarson]

Key for me is a 12" deep trench with no conduit. Per code, that means single pole 20A GF at the main, right? No MWBC, no 2-pole allowed, right?

If you want to use the T300.5 C4 it has to be a single 120v 20a or less circuit. Only use 1 pole of the 2 pole GFCI breaker and do a single circuit.

What I didn't hear from anyone is CAN I PUT A SP BREAKER IN THIS BOX? Why the "2-POLE ONLY" label?

No you can't that's why I said use a 2 Pole GFCI. Since your panel has no main breaker each of those breakers is service disconnect. The panel manufacture has only had it's 2 pole breakers investigated for service disconnect use. That labeling is common on all in one services with no load center section.

Also when people start popping 1 poles in those panels they quickly go over the 6 throw limit.

Use a fused A/C disconnect

If you use anything other then a snap switch it has to be marked for service disconnect use. Not a lot of pull outs are.

 

[soapii]

What do you guys mean by a "snap switch"? Pics/examples?

Thanks.

--Joe

 

[CJ7VFR]

What do you guys mean by a "snap switch"? Pics/examples?

Thanks.

--Joe

It's another word used for a light switch. People use the heavier duty ones for disconnects and shut offs in their sheds. Most get the 20 amp variety if you run a 20 amp/12 awg line out to the shed for power.

Like this:

Jim

 

[300ZX]

Hey, thanks for the input everyone. CJ7VFR, good idea on the house subpanel. Unfortunately it's on the inside garage wall on the opposite side, a real pain to wire from. Jlarson, using one side of a 2-pole GF breaker sounds like the easier plan. 2-pole GF breakers are pricey but it certainly the easier solution, and the only way to get the 12" deep trench. MWBC probably has a similar total cost, and best bang for the buck ("bang" is a poor choice of words...), but the trench is a bigger PITA. Well, I think I know my options. I'll price it all out, evaluate how good my back is, and get going on something. Thanks for all the input, very helpful.

 

[bjcouche]

Um... I'm not so sure you can use a 2 pole GFCI breaker in that panel and then just use 1 pole for a 120V feed to your shed. I believe the GFCI breaker will just trip due to you only drawing current on 1 leg, so it thinks it's a ground fault... Hopefully others will confirm this.
If Allowed, Here's what I would do:
Install a 2 pole 20A breaker in the panel. (only connect to 1 leg)
Run 12-2 wire to the shed.
At the shed, connect first to a 20A rated heavy duty light switch. This will be your "disconnect" switch.
From the switch, go to a GFCI outlet. Then from the LOAD side of the GFCI outlet, go to any additional outlets and lights. All of the outlets and lights connected to the load side of the GFCI outlet will be GFCI protected.

Note that in this design, whenever the lights are off, so are the outlets, in a shed this might be a good thing. The "disconnect" switch must control both the lights and the outlets to be considered a disconnect switch. However, now that I think of it, I guess you could add a second "light" switch between the disconnect switch and the lights so that you could have the outlets on but the lights off.
The trick is that as the wire enters the shed it must first go to the "disconnect" switch, then to the GFCI outlet because all wiring and outlets must be GFCI protected in the shed, and as I suggested above, you couldn't use a GFCI breaker to feed the shed..

hope that helps.

 

[Jlarson]

Um... I'm not so sure you can use a 2 pole GFCI breaker in that panel and then just use 1 pole for a 120V feed to your shed. I believe the GFCI breaker will just trip due to you only drawing current on 1 leg, so it thinks it's a ground fault... Hopefully others will confirm this.

It'll work just fine. In a two pole GFCI breaker both the hots and neutral a run through a current transformer. As long as the current out = current in the CT reads 0. A 2 pole GFCI breaker will work with a 120 volt load, a 120/240 volt load or a straight 240 volt load with no load neutral.

 

[300ZX]

More good input! Thanks bjcouche and Jlarson.