Looking to learn/do welding - advice on unit

[The_Tango]

Well the 2-car garage/workshop is pretty much finished. I am looking to build shelving, tables, benches - so why not do them with square tubing and learn to weld as the same time. I won't be doing any sheet metal just general stuff.

As a total rookie I am looking for advice on: Type & Brand that would give me a starting point. I don't want to drop thousands into a unit that will only be used a few times a year, but do want something that will last.

Like most people: I want it all - I want it all now - And I want it for nothing. Just kidding, a quality basic unit.

THK

 

[pault28]

A Hobart 140 is a really versatile well built amarican made mig that can use gas or not and has the flexibility of plugging it into any 110v outlet anywhere. It'll last you a long time and can be had for around 500 from northern tool. I have one and absolutely love it. No regrets whatsoever. Poor man's millermatic 140 without the autoset.

 

[sberry]

A 140 is a fine machine but if you are moving in to a garage where it will find a home go for a 187 on sale, twice the machine for 50$ more and does everything a hobby/auto shop would need. If you are not on a steady diet of sheet metal use this machine with 030 solid wire, C25 gas. These machines are super tailored to this market, designed to the limits to their specs, are super competitive in quality.
Use of 230 volts allows for delivery of twice the current as 120V circuits which are really nominal at best for welding. This is a thing that once you have it the usefulness will soon appear. The cost decisions are different today, its about value, no longer does a hobby guy got to spring 2500, now bottle and all the accys about a grand including machine. The 240V small mig is a highly refined product these days, sufficient but not overkill in price range.

 

[Mmfh]

You need to decide right away if you want the ability to be able to take it outside or to a friends house or where ever. If you are only going to use it in the garage and it will have its permanent location for sure find a deal on a 240v unit.

If you ever think you might want to weld in the driveway on the truck or a friends trailer or you get the idea, buy a 110v unit. Both are good and I have both.

I love my 140 handler for doing just about anything small, actually I haven't done anything in a long time it would not handle.

My Lincoln 275 does all the big stuff, it has its place in the garage and doesn't move.

I have gas setup for both and I recommend using gas unless you are outside and it is breezy or windy, gas doesn't stay if breezy or windy.

You can't go wrong with the Miller, Hobart, or the Lincoln. I like the variable voltage units but they are harder to find. Most of the smaller welders have tap settings for the heat. A 140 Hobart Handler I believe has 4 or 5 settings for the heat, variable you can adjust the knob to whatever works best.

I'd watch Craigslist for a used setup. I bought all mine stuff used from homeowners/hobbyist that took very good care of their stuff. I saved a lot of money doing that.

Mm

 

[tpolley]

if you want to learn to weld i would recomend checking with your local community college for welding classes. thats what i did. i think it cost me $260. the class was 3 nights a week for 9 weeks. you use their metal, their equipment, and their supplies. of course, i took the classes back in 07/08 when the economy went to sh*t. the school had budjet cuts and ran out of steel half way thru the semester. we were cutting up old projects, rummaging thru the scrap bin, and borrowing metal from the burlington northern (who trains their employees at the college) to have metal for new projects.

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

if you want to learn to weld i would recomend checking with your local community college for welding classes. thats what i did. i think it cost me $260. the class was 3 nights a week for 9 weeks. you use their metal, their equipment, and their supplies.

+1 on taking a class. I've seen a lot of self taught hobbyists try to take their skills a little too far and make some really iffy stuff. A friend of mine recently bought a trailer hitch cargo carrier that had been homemade - really pretty welds with about .001" penetration. As soon as she put weight on it, it started coming apart. I'm just glad it started falling apart in the driveway, and not on the highway.

 

[The_Tango]

Mmfh - No, What friends - Will be for garage only.

sberry - 187 is $180 more than the 140. I realize you said "sale price". I am a buy it once with a look to the future. Also I have 220 outlet.

I will probably do a class - after I run out of cuss words trying to learn on own.

 

[ibedayank]

take the class will be cheaper in the long run with the price of steel and consumeables being this high

 

[Coach James]

I have read a lot of posts on other forums, and a few on here, from guys saying they were self taught and how easy mig is. Many times I have read someone write "I never was taught to weld, but bought a mig , brought it home and was putting down good welds in a couple hours." Don't believe it. Heed the advice from the previous posters on taking a class.

I took a class from the instructor at the local CC and it was worth every dollar. We did gas welding with O/A first, then Miller 130 followed by Miller 200 then how to use a cutting torch. Four hours a day for five days. Best thing was it was just me and the teacher as nobody else signed up for the class.

Also the local welding supply gave a 10% discount on first time purchase to anyone that took the course so I got 10% off my Miller 135 plus 10% off the first bottle of gas and other items.


Coach

 

[mrrisotto]

I bought a small 110V Miller a while back and while it's a great all-around welder and awesome for a beginner (consider 1/8-3/16" thick mild steel the max), I constantly find myself limited by the machine.

If I were you I would definitely consider the new 110V/220V units such as the Millermatic 211 or Hobart Handler 210MVP - it'll be great for you when you're first learning and have plenty of amps for pretty much anything you throw at it in the future.

Do yourself a favor and get the biggest unit you can afford!

 

[GoBlue]

millermatic 175 I love mine. Look for a good used one...lots around.

 

[sberry]

Mmfh - No, What friends - Will be for garage only.

sberry - 187 is $180 more than the 140. I realize you said "sale price". I am a buy it once with a look to the future. Also I have 220 outlet.

I will probably do a class - after I run out of cuss words trying to learn on own.

I agree classes wont hurt but starting with a machine that has the melting power goes a long way to good mig welding. Biggest thing a newbie can learn from the start is to turn it up past the door charts till you burn a hole in it, back off a little till this is just manageable.
I realize there is a spot for 120 machines but I read you like a book, if steel is the plan and you want something you can get by on to do a little fab work the 187 is for you. It will be able to take advantage of the 030 wire, the input circuit you are drawing from is twice as good especially for a load like welding. You can make it pull 20A or better with that wire @ 240. Twice the watts a 120 circuit will deliver.

 

[sberry]

My neighbor who would qualify as a professional welder bought a MM175 so he didn't have to run down here to weld everything and figured it would be sufficient, he could still use my bigger stuff,,, but,, hasn't been here in 10 yrs to weld a piece of steel. The 175 does all that kind of stuff he wants to do, got all the hobby stuff that is typical from a lot on this board.

 

[sberry]

There is a huge war in this class of machine, they come in right under some nema type specs and not only do they sell on price but there is a war on for how good they work too. For the quality of tool they are there is huge value and engineering has really worked hard with optimizing and tuning to get the most out of them with great arc. Even the box store versions by Lincoln work really good.
There are better machines as far as power is concerned but you got to step up a class, really about double the money, in a pro shop it would be worth 3 x but these deliver the "can do" for the dollar at its best.

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

Something else to throw in that I just thought of is learn to stick weld BEFORE running a MIG or wire feed! I've seen more "welders" that are adept with a MIG (or so they say) that get let loose on SMAW (arc) welding and do flatassed AWFUL work. Conversely, if you can handle a stick, then MIG will come to you naturally.

It's also better to learn oxyacetlyene welding BEFORE TIG.

 

[Outlawmws]

The other guys have covered most everything. My only comment is if you do buy a 120V unit, RUN A DEDICATED 20A CIRCUIT!

It will save you a LOT of frustration and cursing of the machine when it is not the machine's fault.

 

[sberry]

There is some validity to those points but I add a spin. While all that is ideal I like to keep it centered in the basic question, what is the goal. I know some guys that can wire feed pretty well. Here the poster is likely pretty adept and to fix some yard stuff, repair a mower, build some shelves he gets the results he wants. If this is a young guy working in hard assed trades then different matter. I have met top tig welders in both steel and alum that couldn't light a torch to cut their way out of a box.
This guy is willing to buy a feeder, he has some concept of what class is right for him and even eluded to budget and the 100 difference between 2 units didn't scare him. Don't be scared or have 5 seconds of buyers remorse, if you use the thing at all it will quickly return its cost in a few repairable items or stuff you want to build around the garage as well as do most things on a common car.

 

[ert01]

This 120/240 discussion is exactly why I bought the miller 211. It does both. I have 240 in my shop for welding but its nice to take the welder with me to tack stuff in place with 120 sometimes.

 

[sberry]

I think Hobart makes a MVP now also and its a feature that has sold them a lot of blue machines.

 

[gsport]

i second it on the miller 211.... i'm totally pleased with mine

 

[sberry]

I believe the 211 is spool gun ready too.

 

[gsport]

I believe the 211 is spool gun ready too.

it is.. and the other great thing is it's either 110 or 220 volts...
i got mine last year at Airco Gas for $877.00 by just asking what's the best price they could give me..

 

[ert01]

I had the Miller 251 before I sold it and downsized to my 211.

The reason was that the 251 was bigger then I needed for what I was doing (Jeep work) and I wanted to start to weld aluminum.

I bought the new 211 and spoolgun and a new bottle with the money from the 251. Couldn't be happier with how it all turned out.

 

[The_Tango]

Well it is probably overkill for my use but I am serious about the Miller 211 - Maybe the 180. Where is the best place to buy this item?

Seems that whenever a problem you have to go to the manufacturer anyway so I have no problem with online. Lowest price / Where.

 

[bauschracing]

One more thing, buy a good quality self darkening helmet. If you wear glasses, get the cheater lens also. You can not weld if you can't see.
I have both a 110 and a 220 lincon mig welder. If I had bought the 220 model first, I would only have one mig welder. You can always turn a welder down but it will only go up so high.
Mike

 

[gsport]

Well it is probably overkill for my use but I am serious about the Miller 211. Where is the best place to buy this item?

Seems that whenever a problem you have to go to the manufacturer anyway so I have no problem with online. Lowest price / Where.

i got my 211 last year at Airgas co. $877 by just asking what's the best price you can give me. at the time their competitor had it on sale for $922..

 

[The_Tango]

Just called the local Airgas - $1008 for 211 & $820 for 180

 

[plierwire]

I think you should learn to stick weld first...but I guess that is because that is how I learned. I've always thought that stick welding skills will make you a better mig welder. Anyways, wherever you choose to start, be sure to check out Lincoln's "Training Materials." If you want to be self-taught, these would be a great start. Good luck!

Check out the "E-learning" powerpoints and the "facilitator's manuals" - they are very very thorough

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-u...ining-materials/Pages/training-materials.aspx

 

[mrrisotto]

Just called the local Airgas - $1008 for 211 & $820 for 180

Maybe I missed this, but do you have 220V available? If so, the Millermatic 180 may be a better buy for you - it's cheaper and about the same amperage as the 211. If you do NOT have 220V then go with the Millermatic 211 for sure - it's dual 110/220V voltage!

And yes, invest in a good auto-darkening helmet while you're at it!

 

[tarbellb]

to really mess with your head, check out this sweet Millermatic.

Millermatic Passport Plus_
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/product.php?model=M00197

i love mine, it has the power of a 211, and its super portable. its also $600+ more.....
go with the biggest welder you can get, youll love the ability to weld thicker when it comes. and it will.

this site is pretty great in terms of pricing and shipping.

http://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com/servlet/StoreFront

 

[The_Tango]

Well I bit the bullet - Miller 180. BRWeldingsupplies $820-$75=$745

Gave up on Craigslist, EBay, ect. It seems that whenever someone buys one of these they keep it forever.

 

[78Bird]

You won't be sorry you went with a quality unit. It should last you forever.

 

[JayL]

Well I bit the bullet - Miller 180. BRWeldingsupplies $820-$75=$745

Gave up on Craigslist, EBay, ect. It seems that whenever someone buys one of these they keep it forever.

I'm very happy with my Millermatic 180. Just built a cart for it a few days ago.

 

[The_Tango]

JayL - That looks great - Might my be my first project.

This morning I had a doctors appointment & the only time in history that Fedex came before noon. The 180 I ordered requires a signature, missed him by 10 minutes.

Thats OK, I need to go to Northern Tool and get one of the $50 helmets (on sale for $40) and gloves. Going to talk to a friend about best place to get the gas. Like a kid at Xmas.