Main panel questions

[mikepelchy]

So I feel as though my electrical bill gets excessively high in the winter months as it increases by 2x as much versus the summer months. I have a natural gas forced hot air furnace and central AC, so I figured with the extra lights used during the winter and then running the AC in the summer, it should give or take equal out. I have also noticed that sometimes the lights will dim when something that generates a high load kicks on (such as power tools).

So, as such I decided that I would look through the main panel and make sure that all of the connectors at the breakers are tight and give everything a look over, so this is where my few questions come up.

First question, I noticed on the sides of the breakers (above where the wire terminates in the breaker) that there is a white square. Some of the breakers have a nice defined white square while some of them white squares appear to be deteriorated. What exactly does this white squares represent?

My second question, I know both of the mains coming into panel should be 120v, but what is the degree of tolerance with the voltage? I am guessing its normal to see some fluctuation due to varying loads but I am wondering how much.

 

[Norcal]

What make of panel? This will allow your “white square” question to be answered although if it what I am thinking of, it just covers a screw on the breaker.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Sounds like bakelite. Its put there by the manufacturer.

As for voltage variance, typically 5% is the limit. So 114-126v.

Lights would take a lot less power than an A/C compressor.

How big is your compressor?

Are all your appliances such as stove, oven, water heater, dryer, etc ran on natural gas? If so, then your bill should definitely be lower in the winter.

Momentary Voltage drop during starting of high loads is usually normal. But depends on how much it dips.

 

[ForceFed70]

Pics are worth a thousand words on a question like this.

I've seen 120V legs measure anywhere from 108V to 125V although I'd say between 110V and 122V is "normal".

Fixtures dimming may not be alarming depending on the type of light fixture. If you see it on an incandescent lamp, then I'd be concerned depending on how noticeable it is. Older florescent with magnetic ballast on the other hand would be normal/expected. I've got an old florescent fixture in our attached garage and it constantly changes brightness/dims with electrical load. Every time the wife kicks on the vacuum, or even uses a large wattage kitchen appliance I'll notice it if I'm under that fixture.

 

[Toomanytools?]

.....................

My second question, I know both of the mains coming into panel should be 120v, but what is the degree of tolerance with the voltage? I am guessing its normal to see some fluctuation due to varying loads but I am wondering how much.

Seems a range of +/- 5% is in tolerance, so 114v -126v
Looks like I'm a bit slow on response time.

 

[mikepelchy]

What make of panel? This will allow your “white square” question to be answered although if it what I am thinking of, it just covers a screw on the breaker.

I'ts a Siemens. Not sure how old it is, although everything is wired with romex style wiring so I would think it must be newer. I actually stumbled across a few article about Siemens have a recall in 2010(?) time frame so I looked for the date code in my box but couldn't find it. The house has had a lot of owners over the past 10 years it seems so I wouldn't be surprised if a recall as missed but I don't have proof to say yes or no. I am actually tossing around the idea of installing a new box and having my service moved underground.

Sounds like bakelite. Its put there by the manufacturer.

As for voltage variance, typically 5% is the limit. So 114-126v.

Lights would take a lot less power than an A/C compressor.

How big is your compressor?

Are all your appliances such as stove, oven, water heater, dryer, etc ran on natural gas? If so, then your bill should definitely be lower in the winter.

Momentary Voltage drop during starting of high loads is usually normal. But depends on how much it dips.

The only natural gas appliances are the house furnace, water heater and garage furnace, stove and drier are electric. I don't know how big the AC compressor is per say, but it has a 40amp breaker if that helps.

Measuring with a multimeter, and this is weird and I am wondering if the copper is corroded and messing with me, but I was only seeing 80-90v on each main when using the neutral as the ground. If I measured across both mains I was only getting like 140v instead of 240v. If I measure voltage at an outlet I was getting 117-120v. I am not sure if my multimeter is retarded (its a cornwell one so its not a $5 one from menards) or what, but I would think if the voltage was really at 80-90v I would be having all kinds of issues.

 

[mikepelchy]

Pics are worth a thousand words on a question like this.

I've seen 120V legs measure anywhere from 108V to 125V although I'd say between 110V and 122V is "normal".

Fixtures dimming may not be alarming depending on the type of light fixture. If you see it on an incandescent lamp, then I'd be concerned depending on how noticeable it is. Older florescent with magnetic ballast on the other hand would be normal/expected. I've got an old florescent fixture in our attached garage and it constantly changes brightness/dims with electrical load. Every time the wife kicks on the vacuum, or even uses a large wattage kitchen appliance I'll notice it if I'm under that fixture.

I've noticed it on all of the lights in the house, most of which are LED bulbs. I have even noticed it by a change in noise from a fan, you could tell the fan would slow down.

 

[oledude1952]

I'ts a Siemens. Not sure how old it is, although everything is wired with romex style wiring so I would think it must be newer. I actually stumbled across a few article about Siemens have a recall in 2010(?) time frame so I looked for the date code in my box but couldn't find it. The house has had a lot of owners over the past 10 years it seems so I wouldn't be surprised if a recall as missed but I don't have proof to say yes or no. I am actually tossing around the idea of installing a new box and having my service moved underground.



The only natural gas appliances are the house furnace, water heater and garage furnace, stove and drier are electric. I don't know how big the AC compressor is per say, but it has a 40amp breaker if that helps.

Measuring with a multimeter, and this is weird and I am wondering if the copper is corroded and messing with me, but I was only seeing 80-90v on each main when using the neutral as the ground. If I measured across both mains I was only getting like 140v instead of 240v. If I measure voltage at an outlet I was getting 117-120v. I am not sure if my multimeter is retarded (its a cornwell one so its not a $5 one from menards) or what, but I would think if the voltage was really at 80-90v I would be having all kinds of issues.

Be sure and get a GOOD volt meter proven to be accurate.

Then with the meter set to a AC 240 -600 volt scale, put your VM test probe tips on the copper wire strands of the cable that is in the breaker box main incoming, power lugs. This will by pass any reading from of a loose power lug in the breakerbox.

If you still get a 140 volt reading across the two main lugs connections...call the POCO and tell them about your readings. Before doing so though, check for any outside disconnects that may be controlling your breaker box for the right voltages.

The text in red is indicative of a poor connection at the meter or the POCO's power transformer having secondary voltage output /conductor issues/OH service/underground conductor /connection issues.. Work safe around HOT power wires !

 

[alfredeneuman]

First question, I noticed on the sides of the breakers (above where the wire terminates in the breaker) that there is a white square. Some of the breakers have a nice defined white square while some of them white squares appear to be deteriorated. What exactly does this white squares represent?

I've seen white squares (sometimes they're round), not on the sides but centered right above the lug.
They are a plaster-of-Paris like substance. Beneath the square is an adjustment screw that adjusts the tension on the lug's internal metal to the bimetal strip.
It's there to ensure that the adjustment won't be tampered with.

 

[TractorJeff]

Take your meter to work and check it against a coworkers meter or at least go over to the neighbors house and check your meter in an Outlet or two.
Definitely call the Power Company if your meter checks out OK!

 

[Milton Shaw]

Replace the battery on the meter. I have a Fluke that will give wrong voltage readings if the battery is low. Still checked OK on ohms but voltage was off. Just backwards of what I thought they would do. Compare to another is a good test after battery change...

 

[mikepelchy]

Replace the battery on the meter. I have a Fluke that will give wrong voltage readings if the battery is low. Still checked OK on ohms but voltage was off. Just backwards of what I thought they would do. Compare to another is a good test after battery change...

You sir we're correct.. I noticed the battery icon was on but I only knew it affected measuring ohms, never had an issue measuring DC voltage.

After replacing the battery in my multimeter I was seeing anywhere from 114 to 118v on the main lugs. Probably gonna have the PoCo come take a look at the connections and see if everything looks good outside.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You sir we're correct.. I noticed the battery icon was on but I only knew it affected measuring ohms, never had an issue measuring DC voltage.

After replacing the battery in my multimeter I was seeing anywhere from 114 to 118v on the main lugs. Probably gonna have the PoCo come take a look at the connections and see if everything looks good outside.

Residential power is AC not DC.

 

[mikepelchy]

Residential power is AC not DC.

I know that.. I work on heavy equipment so I use DC all day long. I never had an issue with a low battery affecting me when measuring DC at work so I never thought about it when I saw the low battery icon.