Makes no sense

[Kapt]

Are there other counties with regulations like the ones here in Montgomery County, Md?

The homeowner can due ANY electrical work in the house including putting in a whole new service to and from the meter. I'm in the process of doing that now so I can run 100a out to my detached garage. The only stipulation is you have to take a multiple choice electrical exam at the permitting office. Of course all work will have to be inspected, and I have no problem with that.

Now here's the part that doesn't make any sense to me. The homeowner is not allowed to do any electrical work that's outside of the main home. A licensed electrician must do it all. Even if an electrician runs a subpanel to the garage, I'm not allowed to run wire, or even install a light fixture. I'm allowed to run a new service entrance cable to my new cb box in the main house, but installing a new outlet in my detached garage is not allowed.

All this does is encourage people to do stuff without permits/inspections.

 

[alkemyst]

well from a liability standpoint the outside stuff a 'stranger' can come in contact with. There is a house on my commute that has the main feed coming into the side of the house/roof WITHOUT conduit and just spray foamed where it penetrates the roof. Definitely not done properly or with a permit.

If that stranger frys himself chances are the homeowner will say it's the city's fault for allowing it.

Also outside you are dealing with the full voltage/amps...inside at least you are on the other side of a box you can kill.

 

[g935cab]

I hear ya kapt im in Montgomery county Md also and have a one car atached about to start a build on a detached pole building if i can get a permit for it

 

[mike944]

Somebody correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe allowing a homeowner to do electrical work on a single-family detached residence is some kind of "special exemption" to the normal rules. A lot of municipalities don't like it, and there are places fighting to get rid of it. Some of them have even succeded.

Perhaps this county doesn't like the rule, and therefore, they aren't going to let you do a single bit more work than the rule says they have to let you do.


In reference to the "some of them have succeded" comment, my parents live in massachussets. My dad fought with the town for quite a while. He was doing a small addition almost completely himself, but they wouldn't let him do the electrical work. They told him that in massachussets a homeowner couldn't do his own electrical work. He ended up doing it himself, but he found an electrician who would come over, and inspect all the work, and sign it off that the electrican did the work. By the time he was done, i'm not sure he saved anything, but we're both stubborn. He was going to find some way to do it himself.

I completely agree that rules like this encourage people to do work without permits, which is exactly the opposite behavior that the rules are there for.

 

[bigdav160]

Thanks goodness there is none of that where I live. We don't even need permits. I can even do work for other people as long as I don't ask for money.

 

[Defender Chassis]

well from a liability standpoint the outside stuff a 'stranger' can come in contact with. There is a house on my commute that has the main feed coming into the side of the house/roof WITHOUT conduit and just spray foamed where it penetrates the roof. Definitely not done properly or with a permit.

If that stranger frys himself chances are the homeowner will say it's the city's fault for allowing it.

Also outside you are dealing with the full voltage/amps...inside at least you are on the other side of a box you can kill.

What difference would that make? Suing the city would be a lost cause. I say its just the gov trying to save us from ourselves.

 

[Kevin54]

Somebody correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe allowing a homeowner to do electrical work on a single-family detached residence is some kind of "special exemption" to the normal rules.

ZThe way it used to be, and I'll say used to be, because I am not sure how it is now but a homeowner in my area could run his own electric, but nothing could be covered up until it was final inspected. I would imagine things are changing all due tot he fact that inspectors would probably be run rag'ged by having to go inspect something only to find it fails, to be called a few hours later or a few days later to check it again. With a lot of people, if you hand them a hammer then all of a sudden they think they are a master carpenter just because they have a shiny hammer. Then as Alchemyst stated...you have the liability issues. So in a way it does make sense to regulate who does what. But on the other side of the fence...everytime you want a simple task done, you have to shell out money. And then you have the ones with the viewpoint that they are not going to be dictated to as to what or what not they can do to and in their own home when they are the ones paying the mortgage payment. But I have also seen inspectors that fit in the same category as the guy with the new shiny hammer. He doesn't know which end to use either. Man my crotch hurts from straddling this fence. LOL!!!

 

[PAToyota]

In my borough, I can do all the electrical work that I want without any prior testing - just have to have it pass the electrical inspection when I am finished. When I did my workshop, the inspector's comment was that he wished the "pros" did such nice, neat work.

 

[mike944]

What difference would that make? Suing the city would be a lost cause. I say its just the gov trying to save us from ourselves.

I think it's the government trying to protect themselves from lawyers.

Unfortunately, (in the U.S. anyway) we live in a very sue-happy society. And, the people that get sued the most are not the person at most fault, but rather the people with the deepest pockets, because it's not about justice, it's all about the money. In this case, the city.

In the lawyer's eyes, since they "approved" it, the inspectors should have gone over every square inch of the wiring, making sure it's 100% safe for the next 200 years, and therefore, they did a poor job of inspecting the work.

I won't continue the rant, but you all know where i'm going with it.......

 

[Defender Chassis]

I think it's the government trying to protect themselves from lawyers.

Unfortunately, (in the U.S. anyway) we live in a very sue-happy society. And, the people that get sued the most are not the person at most fault, but rather the people with the deepest pockets, because it's not about justice, it's all about the money. In this case, the city.

In the lawyer's eyes, since they "approved" it, the inspectors should have gone over every square inch of the wiring, making sure it's 100% safe for the next 200 years, and therefore, they did a poor job of inspecting the work.

I won't continue the rant, but you all know where i'm going with it.......

Your logic amazes me.

 

[Beachbum]

Defender,

In my county, all you have to do is take a multiple choice test and then have all your work inspected. I feel that the inspection is like quality and safety control for me. It's always good to have a second set of eyes look at something that has such potential to go wrong if done incorrectly. I am, only allowed to work on my own home. I been told I can do the same thing with plumbing, but for me all I know about that is hots on the left, colds on the right and s--- rolls downhill. Good luck with your project!

 

[Beachbum]

Sorry Kapt, I should have addressed my response to you.

 

[zj96sc]

so what does it take to make the "detached" garage a part of the house? maybe a little breezeway?

 

[incurablescrounge]

Long time lurker, 2nd post.
My name is Doug and I am in the process of building my shop. It is 22' by 34' with room in attic trusses on a 10/12 pitch with In floor radiant heat.
In my city, Janesville Wisconsin, a homeowner can do the electrical work if he passes an open book, multiple choice 20 question test. You are given the electricians code book and an hour to do it. This is an incredibly hard test.
For example,They ask what size outlet box to use if you have like 3-12g, 1- 14g and a 10g conductor coming in to the box. you have to find the formulas and calculate the cubic inch that each conductors and grounds occupy. The book is like 6000 pages thick. All the questions are very technical with no common sense answers.
You can get 6 wrong and pass. I passed once but failed three times. Each project requires another test. I found an electrician to inspect my work so I don't have to take that test ever again. I told the building inspector that I felt that they were in cahoots with the electrical unions to keep the homeowner from doing work on thier own. Ironically, one of the council members owns a very large electrical business. Hmmm.

 

[6768rogues]

In western NY, anyone can do residential wiring as long as it passes an inspection before it is energized.

 

[Junkman]

I live in N.E. CT, and I did all the electrical and plumbing when I built my home in 1982. I did have to have the septic installed by a state licensed installer, but all the rest a homeowner could do himself. In 2002 when I put an addition onto the home, I also did the electrical upgrade myself, along with all the plumbing. In each instance, the town inspector checked my work, and signed off on it as being acceptable. Then the local electrical utility came to inspect, and they also approved the new wiring. I went to the extreme and made sure that everything that I did met or exceeded the code requirements. I wouldn't want to have an issue when I sell that would cause the sale not to go through. Some people can't boil water without directions, and that is why some of the requirements are in place in some communities. I am lucky that where I live, the homeowner is allowed to do almost anything. One thing that I did learn about from my insurance agent, was that if you do any wiring without a permit, and there is an electrical fire, then you give the insurance company a reason not to pay the claim. Seems that they have a requirement that all proper permits be pulled or they won't cover a loss as a result of defective work. My only guess is that they would have recourse against the contractor if the work is hired out.
If you own the home, but don't live in it, then all work must be done by a licensed contractor. This is the only exception that I know of.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

In my borough, I can do all the electrical work that I want without any prior testing - just have to have it pass the electrical inspection when I am finished. When I did my workshop, the inspector's comment was that he wished the "pros" did such nice, neat work.

I received basically the same comment after I replaced the 60amp main panel in my parents 1956 house with a 200 amp panelboard, new meter socket, disconnect, service entrance and head, basement subpanel, etc. He was delighted to find neatness and quality workmanship, and went on for quite a while about it. I told him that the "old guy" at Home Depot's electrical department was a bunch of help, a retired electrician full of information, then he exclaimed "thats my father".

Charles

 

[Ironcrow]

Yup, I've got the shiny hammer and instruction book. Owner/builders can do everything here as long as the building inspector likes it. The power company guy, who hooked up to my 400A service entrance, took a picture of my work - "To show to the next pro who tried to fob off sloppy work".

 

[Ripp]

Pending on the project it has been my experiance that the permit process is little more than a way to fill city/county coffers.

Many will disagree,but I just do what I want.My garage has 220 100amp service.To do this I could have jumped through all sorts of hoops and paid many hands to get it done.
I simply ran the recommended wire to the garage and put in a 8 pole service panel and was done with it.
That was 10 years ago and nobody the wiser..
Now don't go using 14-2 when you really need 10-3..ect..ect.Use the right equipment for the job.

 

[jay50]

I got permit for "storage building" which required only one light and 1 outlet IIRC. Much easier to call it a storage building as far as permits and taxes are concerned. After electrical sign off, pulled wiring through out the building and storage building now becomes my shop...LOL

Inspector never questioned why I had 100 amp service to my storage building for only one light and one receptacle.....

 

[alkemyst]

Pending on the project it has been my experiance that the permit process is little more than a way to fill city/county coffers.

Many will disagree,but I just do what I want.My garage has 220 100amp service.To do this I could have jumped through all sorts of hoops and paid many hands to get it done.
I simply ran the recommended wire to the garage and put in a 8 pole service panel and was done with it.
That was 10 years ago and nobody the wiser..
Now don't go using 14-2 when you really need 10-3..ect..ect.Use the right equipment for the job.

this smiley sums it up well though for a typical 'Joe Handyman'. Not saying anything about your job, but like you mentioned, people have different understandings of the right way to do a job.

Someone will go down to Home Depot see 14-2 as 'heavy duty' wire and cheap and pick up a 10 pack of recepticles / coverplates. Then run home, dig a trench and bury that romex all the way to their garage from their main box and proceed to daisy chain all 10 recepticles without even boxes.

All the while they will think it's the way it would have been done for a 'garage'

heh.

 

[Fxjnkmn]

Sue happy? what do you expect from a country that has lot more lawyers than doctors. I've seen some dangerous wiring done by both pro's and homeowners. and seen inspectors who don't even look at anything. so make sure you do it right the first time.

 

[timgr]

Somebody correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe allowing a homeowner to do electrical work on a single-family detached residence is some kind of "special exemption" to the normal rules. ...

In reference to the "some of them have succeded" comment, my parents live in massachussets. My dad fought with the town for quite a while. He was doing a small addition almost completely himself, but they wouldn't let him do the electrical work. They told him that in massachussets a homeowner couldn't do his own electrical work.

That's right, Mass state law prohibits issuance of permits for electrical or plumbing except to a licensed electrician/plumber. The effectively prohibits homeowners from any such work ... you can be your own GC, but you have to hire a plumber/electrician and they have to pull the permits.

 

[TopBanana]

Are there other counties with regulations like the ones here in Montgomery County, Md?...

The homeowner is not allowed to do any electrical work that's outside of the main home. A licensed electrician must do it all. Even if an electrician runs a subpanel to the garage, I'm not allowed to run wire, or even install a light fixture. I'm allowed to run a new service entrance cable to my new cb box in the main house, but installing a new outlet in my detached garage is not allowed.

All this does is encourage people to do stuff without permits/inspections.

I live up in Cecil Co...same rules (I think it's a STATE rule). Why do you think I'm doing ALL my work without a permit? The inspectors can be a big pain!!! I ran conduit w/ (3)#2's and a #4 gnd to a 100 amp sub panel, ran all my own wire, set all boxes, and let an electrician buddy set the panel and terminate the receptacles. It's all done "right"...just not right w/ a permit!! And if I get busted out for some reason, it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission!

 

[sctattooer]

In South Carolina, you can do any work inside the residence by yourself. When I built my garage, it was listed as a "partial enclosure" on the permit. The final inspection was done with no doors or windows, and no finish work inside. I only had to have 2 layers of 5/8 sheetrock on the marriage wall between the shop and house. All the wiring, HVAC, sheetrock was done after the inspector signed off on it.

 

[VDubJoe]

I built my 40 by 60 garage. All i had to do was get a permit. Supply plans.I was allowed to do all the work. Just have to pass inspections. In sunny Fla.

Joe