Manual transfer switch for portable generator question.

[yeldogt]

I see generators as two types, fully automatic, your gone, power goes out, generator starts and runs. Cadillac solution.

Or, some form of manual switch requiring you to be there to set it up. Of those options, with no Interlock allowed, I would just do a manual throw switch like this because it's idiot proof, even more so than an interlock:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eaton-Doub...=item41f472ab5d:g:BPQAAOSwLF1YAY37:rk:10:pf:0

However, I don't think it will be cheap, I would say ~$1200 in parts and labor since you have to put any switch between the meter base and the main, fabricate an extension cord, have a place to plug in the gen, etc.

Those meter adapters look kind of questionable to me and I don't know how the utility would like them either.

The separate little load centers are a tried and true way of both being safe and not overloading anything. It's idiot proof ... I would be uncomfortable with anything less. Generac makes one that's basically an auto (the guts) that's manually controlled -- so all the breakers switch over with one flip of a low volt switch. You can also buy others that look like a regular load center w/cover and have up to 12 slots for feeds.

When I had ski house -- many of the houses had portable units with the generators in little huts away from the house. My neighbor had had one -- it was basically set up all winter and his wife and son could work it. There was no danger because you could not screw anything up. Having the whole panel switch over required more understanding -- overloading the generator is not good for the unit and also it would require going back out to the unit.

 

[CJ7VFR]

I put a couple of these in, pretty simple.

https://www.zoro.com/reliance-manual-transfer-switch-125250v-30a-306crk/i/G2727063/

I have the slightly older 10 circuit version of this that I put in back in 2012 just before hurricane Sandy hit NJ.

I went with a power inlet box that has the mating male connector on the bottom of the box, as that version is considered more water resistant.

But other than that, the total cost for my setup was $290 for the 10 circuit manual transfer switch, $40 for the power inlet box, $30 for some 10/3 wire, and a few bucks for some bigger wire nuts.

I have a Briggs and Straton 5500/8250 watt portable generator that cost $780, and I also bought a 25 foot long L14-30 twist lock cord for $50 to connect the generator to the power inlet box.

The total set up cost just shy of $1200. But when Sandy hit, and we lost power for 11 days, I able to stay in my own home, have heat, hot water, well and bathroom/septic use, have the sump pump working, cook food in a toaster oven, have lights on in the house, watch tv, have internet service and charge up any devices that needed charging were all great to have.

But the amount of food we saved in our two refrigerators alone made it all worth the cost.

Jim

 

[Bretny]

$1200 just gets your foot in the door. Im sure 11 days of fuel for the generator were not cheap. Im also sure you were lucky to find that much fuel. That storm caught me with my pants down and im a fair bit further north than you. Turns out our fuel supply is greatly dependant on the bardges beable to go up the hudson. That didnt happen for nearly a month. I also had no generator and two flooded basements.

 

[dave*99]

Here is an interesting story about a back feed disaster.
https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/stories/13-How-NOT-to-Connect-a-Portable-Generator.html

 

[aunsafe2015]

I see generators as two types, fully automatic, your gone, power goes out, generator starts and runs. Cadillac solution.

Or, some form of manual switch requiring you to be there to set it up. Of those options, with no Interlock allowed, I would just do a manual throw switch like this because it's idiot proof, even more so than an interlock:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eaton-Doub...=item41f472ab5d:g:BPQAAOSwLF1YAY37:rk:10:pf:0

However, I don't think it will be cheap, I would say ~$1200 in parts and labor since you have to put any switch between the meter base and the main, fabricate an extension cord, have a place to plug in the gen, etc.

Those meter adapters look kind of questionable to me and I don't know how the utility would like them either.

What exactly is this? Basically a manual transfer switch for your entire 200 amp panel? So you will have to manually manage loads?

I like the idea that you could pick and choose from your entire panel what to run. With the 10 breaker manual switches your options are set as soon as you install the switch and pick the breakers to connect to it.

 

[aunsafe2015]

The separate little load centers are a tried and true way of both being safe and not overloading anything. It's idiot proof ... I would be uncomfortable with anything less. Generac makes one that's basically an auto (the guts) that's manually controlled -- so all the breakers switch over with one flip of a low volt switch. You can also buy others that look like a regular load center w/cover and have up to 12 slots for feeds.

When I had ski house -- many of the houses had portable units with the generators in little huts away from the house. My neighbor had had one -- it was basically set up all winter and his wife and son could work it. There was no danger because you could not screw anything up. Having the whole panel switch over required more understanding -- overloading the generator is not good for the unit and also it would require going back out to the unit.

Could you post a link to the 12 slot manual transfer switch?

 

[alexb2000]

What exactly is this? Basically a manual transfer switch for your entire 200 amp panel? So you will have to manually manage loads?

I like the idea that you could pick and choose from your entire panel what to run. With the 10 breaker manual switches your options are set as soon as you install the switch and pick the breakers to connect to it.

Yes, exactly, just a big throw switch. I don't want to rewire the panel, or choose a certain number of circuits and this gives me everything in the house, because there is ALWAYS some little thing on some circuit you'll need like the Internet router.

 

[yeldogt]

Could you post a link to the 12 slot manual transfer switch?

google reliance prewired generator transfer panel -- it's 60 amp and comes with the switch and meters. Northern tool

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Here is an interesting story about a back feed disaster.
https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/stories/13-How-NOT-to-Connect-a-Portable-Generator.html

yeah that flies in the face of all the naysayers on here.

 

[larry4406]

google reliance prewired generator transfer panel -- it's 60 amp and comes with the switch and meters. Northern tool

http://www.reliancecontrols.com/ProductDetail.aspx?TRC1006CP9
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200196374_200196374
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000K2HJVQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Nice looking panel setup.

Mechanical interlock to ensure utility is off while generator is on and vise-versa. From the Reliance link "The transfer switches are completely prewired and feature interlinked circuit breakers keep the generator isolated from the utility at all times, even with the cover or deadfront removed.". I like this feature as the panel cover interlock method is defeated if the cover is removed (but who is really operating a generator while the cover is removed?)

One needs to cherry pic the circuits to move over to it during installation. "Prewired" apparently means there are pigtails attached to the breakers in the transfer panel that are brought over to the main panel and wire nutted to the circuits of interest after disconnecting them from the main panel circuit breakers.
http://www.reliancecontrols.com/Documents/TR Prewired Instructions.pdf

Zooming in on the picture, it has a 100A main interlocked to a 60A generator backfeed breaker.

Then use the included meters to monitor which circuits can simultaneously operate so as to not overload the generator.

Short of the feature of ensuring interlock is maintained with panel cover/dead front removed, I don't see what this does that a panel interlock kit does not. In both cases one still has to monitor load to not overload the generator. The interlock panel cover kit is easier to install.

 

[brooktre]

I went with the Reliance 310A kit and I have a Honda Generator EU7000is. My two biggest concerns were well pump and generator gasoline use. The Reliance units are good. I got a kit because you get an outdoor plug and 240v cord for generator to plug. I also got 240v wiring to wire from the Reliance box to the outdoor plug. Some Reliance boxes let you plug the generator into them, but my generator needed to be further away. The Reliance box was a little more than others but it works well and I'm happy. Plus it meets code and is safe for the power company workers.

If you go that route, you have to carefully plan which circuits from the main panel you want to power. Each Reliance circuit will power the same size circuit in your house. With my setup I can power the 240v well pump, 240v hybrid water heater, and 6 other 15 amp circuits (which include oil fired hot water baseboard heat, 2 refrigerators, microwave and 2 lighting circuits). You also have to plan where you will set up the generator to distance it from home openings and in your case the above ground propane tank. I don't know the answer to that one.

 

[Will S.]

acer,
I have a Square-D 6 circuit, 30A manual transfer switch that I will sell. It was installed in my house, and served me well until I needed two additional circuits, so I replaced it with a larger unit. Let me know if you're interested.

 

[dave*99]

yeah that flies in the face of all the naysayers on here.

Funny that the guy that set up the back feed disaster sort of fits the GJ profile.

 

[yeldogt]

http://www.reliancecontrols.com/ProductDetail.aspx?TRC1006CP9
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200196374_200196374
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000K2HJVQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Nice looking panel setup.

Mechanical interlock to ensure utility is off while generator is on and vise-versa. From the Reliance link "The transfer switches are completely prewired and feature interlinked circuit breakers keep the generator isolated from the utility at all times, even with the cover or deadfront removed.". I like this feature as the panel cover interlock method is defeated if the cover is removed (but who is really operating a generator while the cover is removed?)

One needs to cherry pic the circuits to move over to it during installation. "Prewired" apparently means there are pigtails attached to the breakers in the transfer panel that are brought over to the main panel and wire nutted to the circuits of interest after disconnecting them from the main panel circuit breakers.
http://www.reliancecontrols.com/Documents/TR Prewired Instructions.pdf

Zooming in on the picture, it has a 100A main interlocked to a 60A generator backfeed breaker.

Then use the included meters to monitor which circuits can simultaneously operate so as to not overload the generator.

Short of the feature of ensuring interlock is maintained with panel cover/dead front removed, I don't see what this does that a panel interlock kit does not. In both cases one still has to monitor load to not overload the generator. The interlock panel cover kit is easier to install.

My local jurisdiction will not allow the panel interlocks. The add on ones. The number and size of portable systems has really taken off in the past few years .. I guess local officials are watching these more closely. Another reason" It really not very expensive to do it correctly.

 

[CJ7VFR]

$1200 just gets your foot in the door. Im sure 11 days of fuel for the generator were not cheap. Im also sure you were lucky to find that much fuel. That storm caught me with my pants down and im a fair bit further north than you. Turns out our fuel supply is greatly dependant on the bardges beable to go up the hudson. That didnt happen for nearly a month. I also had no generator and two flooded basements.

Luckily for me, I bought 25 gallons of gas (5 gas cans) to run the generator before Sandy hit.

My generator was able to run 14 hours on about 4 gallons of gas. So what we did was run the generator from 4:00pm thru the night until 6:00am the next day. This way, the generator was running while we were home, heating the house, using the bathrooms, keeping the refrigerators cold, and what not, but then we shut it off when we went to work in the morning.

We were able to get just shy of a week out of the 25 gallons of gas. By that point, there were a lot of places near us (in Pennsylvania) that had gas stations up and running, so we refilled the 5 gas cans and had enough to get thru until our own power came back on.

I figure we spent about $150.00 or so on gas for the 50 gallons we used. So our overall outlay with the cost of setting up the generator was about $1400.

It would have cost us easily that much alone to stay in a hotel for 11 days, not to mention the cost of the spoiled food, water damage to the basement due to sump pump not running and stuff like that.

So, overall, it was good purchase. We have had power outages since Sandy that lasted a day or two, and we have used the generator and manual transfer switch each time to allow us to stay in our home. Which was the primary reason for the purchase!

Jim

 

[aunsafe2015]

http://www.reliancecontrols.com/ProductDetail.aspx?TRC1006CP9
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200196374_200196374
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000K2HJVQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Nice looking panel setup.

Mechanical interlock to ensure utility is off while generator is on and vise-versa. From the Reliance link "The transfer switches are completely prewired and feature interlinked circuit breakers keep the generator isolated from the utility at all times, even with the cover or deadfront removed.". I like this feature as the panel cover interlock method is defeated if the cover is removed (but who is really operating a generator while the cover is removed?)

One needs to cherry pic the circuits to move over to it during installation. "Prewired" apparently means there are pigtails attached to the breakers in the transfer panel that are brought over to the main panel and wire nutted to the circuits of interest after disconnecting them from the main panel circuit breakers.
http://www.reliancecontrols.com/Documents/TR Prewired Instructions.pdf

Zooming in on the picture, it has a 100A main interlocked to a 60A generator backfeed breaker.

Then use the included meters to monitor which circuits can simultaneously operate so as to not overload the generator.

Short of the feature of ensuring interlock is maintained with panel cover/dead front removed, I don't see what this does that a panel interlock kit does not. In both cases one still has to monitor load to not overload the generator. The interlock panel cover kit is easier to install.

Is this basically equivalent to a full blown subpanel with a built in interlock? So you would actually transfer the circuits out of your main panel and into this subpanel, and run them on utility power under normal circumstances. But when you lose power, you switch the subpanel circuits to generator power and the "interlock" prevents backfeed?

 

[yeldogt]

Is this basically equivalent to a full blown subpanel with a built in interlock? So you would actually transfer the circuits out of your main panel and into this subpanel, and run them on utility power under normal circumstances. But when you lose power, you switch the subpanel circuits to generator power and the "interlock" prevents backfeed?

Yes ... but that's how all the small auto transfer units work as well.

On the manual ones some have individual transfer switches for each dedicated circuit -- others like the one I spoke of and the links has one.

When building prior I was thinking of getting a generator ready panel -- the problem there is most did not have load shedding capabilities -- so the generator would have to be very large to make it work automatically.

Code officials are taking a closer look at all of the hook ups --

 

[rlitman]

...When building prior I was thinking of getting a generator ready panel -- the problem there is most did not have load shedding capabilities -- so the generator would have to be very large to make it work automatically...

The simplest option is to split your panel in two, with all generator loads being on a sub that's generator ready.

 

[yeldogt]

The simplest option is to split your panel in two, with all generator loads being on a sub that's generator ready.

The Gen ready panels I saw just have a replacement main .. so ..not sure what you speak.

And they don't have a smart system to do load shedding for code ... the idea was good .. but code sort of wiped out that direction.

 

[rlitman]

The Generac GenReady panel has two main breakers, and a mechanism that switches between inputs.

What I'm suggesting is don't use that as a main panel if you want load shedding. Put your non-critical loads on your main panel, and have your gen-ready panel as an adjacent sub-panel. Then, just put critical loads into the sub, and feed the generator input breaker in that panel with an inlet and cord from your small generator of choice.

 

[mm08822]

If the generator/transfer system is not an automatic type, then connected loads can be selected by the user. Any combination of loads are selected by the user based upon their ability to manage the total connected load relative to the generator/power inlet connection size.

There is no code limitation on the panel main ocp size or number of ckts within that panel that the manual transfer system hooks into.