Daddy_Rabbit
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who are you trying to convince? me or yourself? lol.
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Missing Snap On dealer part 2
- Thread starter Robert Haas
- Start date
who are you trying to convince? me or yourself? lol.
chadster1
Well-known member
This arrangement is true with just about any item that is financed. Cars, Polaris RZR's, Boats, etc....
RAYJAY
Well-known member
Well, if it is dollars to dollars, yea, but that is the rub, I am waiting on tools that complete sets that SO does not sell individually, (3 of a set of 10 long reach screwdrivers) and other things of that nature. He also has not produced missing single sockets, line wrenches and other items.
In regards to anything I owe him, I always paid as soon as an invoice was produced, I paid on the spot. The balance I owe was due to poor record keeping on his part. I sure am not withholding payment.
40 plus years I have been walking up the steps of the big white trucks. My dad did it before me. Most of the tools that I am replacing due to a break in last summer were decades old and all Snap On, I consider myself a loyal customer. It would be nice if that loyalty meant something, as it stands right now,...I receive the same exact consideration as a person fresh out of trade school with a 4 month purchasing history.
Thank You Snap On, I now know how it feels to be toilet paper
Bob been there done that got the tee shirt and the tube of k-y from the snap-on dealers .... never ever again
Snap on lost a lot of money over the years with me, True...but it doesn't make it **** any less. This should be against the law.
mrshaun
Well-known member
lesson learned here. Do not pre pay unless you are good friends with the dealer.
Daddy_Rabbit
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lesson learned is do not pre pay. period.
padronanniversary
Well-known member
That is a double edge sword. You cannot expect a snap on dealer or order a obscure high dollar item either that would not sell if you do not purchase it or end up not having the money either.
A screw driver here or there, but if they brought in a expensive item you would expect at least a non-refundable down payment if you bail on it.
OP
Robert Haas
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Never got that return phone call, again,,,,,.well ever.......Geesh.
I give up. will just wash my hands of the whole damn thing.
Will contact Matco, Mack, or some other SO dealer and see if they are interested in taking my money.
Sad thing is, up until a few weeks ago, I was such a defender of Snap On, I would insist to anyone that listened that paying the extra amount brought something else to the table. Service and quality was what I was paying for.
Honestly, the quality is top notch. I just am going to have a hard time justifying the expense based on just that, what with the other lines out there that have stepped it up so much at less then a 1/3 the price,, How will I ever honestly support the SO line after this ordeal. Honestly?
I give up. will just wash my hands of the whole damn thing.
Will contact Matco, Mack, or some other SO dealer and see if they are interested in taking my money.
Sad thing is, up until a few weeks ago, I was such a defender of Snap On, I would insist to anyone that listened that paying the extra amount brought something else to the table. Service and quality was what I was paying for.
Honestly, the quality is top notch. I just am going to have a hard time justifying the expense based on just that, what with the other lines out there that have stepped it up so much at less then a 1/3 the price,, How will I ever honestly support the SO line after this ordeal. Honestly?
cherokee140
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Knowing what you know now why on earth would you go back to SO? You know what kind of help you will get from their corp offices the next time you are shafted....and there will be a next time.
Jeff
Well-known member
Thanks for telling your story. It shows everyone how evil the corporate ***** mongers really are.
If you ever dealt with large corporation you'd realize that things don't always go as quickly as you'd like. I'd advise the OP to take a big "chill pill" and give it some time to get resolved.
We have a major corporation dealing with an AWOL independant dealer and there are probably regional middlemen trying to work this all out. This is unlikely to happen in "internet time".
RAYJAY
Well-known member
mrshaun
Well-known member
maybe he died. there have been a few die in the past. If he did this whole thread would not be worth reading.
mrshaun
Well-known member
I found him in my trasfer to dealer part of my Program, but there is no other info that is useful.
scott37300
Well-known member
Weather or not you want to buy snap on from here on out is up to you but why would you give up on the tools you are owed? Doesn't make sense. Yes it is pretty crappy business practice to tell someone you will call them back and never do, multiple times. But you are willing to lose the tools because you don't want to make another phone call?
I have delt with SO customer service for warranty issues threw emails and they always get back to me within 24 hours and I have had good service from them.
Yes it ***** your dealer went missing for what ever reason, ***** that you prepaid, ***** snap on is taking longer to help you out, ***** that you even have to deal with this, ***** that they won't call you back, but it's not like you can just call them up and they send you tools. Like mentioned SO is a seperate entity from your dealer. They asked you for paper work so they could figure everything out. Did you send that in already?
I'm not trying to bash you and not trying to stick up for SO but just stating it can take sometime and not to give up. Might be a pain but you said they were working with you. Just because they don't call you back you shouldn't give up on tools owed to you. Give up on SO for future tools if you want but I know I wouldn't be giving up on tools I was owed.
I have delt with SO customer service for warranty issues threw emails and they always get back to me within 24 hours and I have had good service from them.
Yes it ***** your dealer went missing for what ever reason, ***** that you prepaid, ***** snap on is taking longer to help you out, ***** that you even have to deal with this, ***** that they won't call you back, but it's not like you can just call them up and they send you tools. Like mentioned SO is a seperate entity from your dealer. They asked you for paper work so they could figure everything out. Did you send that in already?
I'm not trying to bash you and not trying to stick up for SO but just stating it can take sometime and not to give up. Might be a pain but you said they were working with you. Just because they don't call you back you shouldn't give up on tools owed to you. Give up on SO for future tools if you want but I know I wouldn't be giving up on tools I was owed.
>Robert
Giving up on this is NOT the thing to do. Eventually Snap-on WILL come after you for what you owe; that is a given. If a replacement dealer takes over the route, they will get the receivables of your AWOL dealer. And you need to make a counter-claim for what tools your dealer owed you.
I would try to get the district mananger on the phone as soon as possible.
Giving up on this is NOT the thing to do. Eventually Snap-on WILL come after you for what you owe; that is a given. If a replacement dealer takes over the route, they will get the receivables of your AWOL dealer. And you need to make a counter-claim for what tools your dealer owed you.
I would try to get the district mananger on the phone as soon as possible.
cherokee140
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What if's are not worth talking about....but for the sake of argument...
IF he did die it is still pretty poor the way this guy has been treated by the corp office. You KNOW they have done NOTHING to help him out. No calls back...bla bla bla. Corp will not care till they try to get their money out of the dealers estate....and that will be messy.
I use the tools that I already have, but to buy more from them...no way.
The more people that learn the true nature of SO the more people will buy their next rachet at Lowes.
More and more people are not drinking the SO Kool-Aid. I would bet in 10years you will start to see the end of this truck dealer cluster F.
OP
Robert Haas
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All I ask is to be treated honestly.
If a person tells me they will call me back in a couple of hours, then for Christ sakes call me back.
I sent every piece of paper they asked for within 15 minutes of their request.
I am not "giving up" on this because it is not happening in Internet time. I am giving up on it because I have been spending hours on the phone, I bill myself out @120.00 an hour so it ain't gonna take long before this actually costs me more then the tools are worth.
My missing dealer is just that, missing.
I am the one that told Snap On that I owed them money, not the other way around.
I have taken the high road all along this path, now it has been over 2 months with no contact what so ever.
So just how big of a chill pill does a person need to take after waiting 9 weeks?
If a person tells me they will call me back in a couple of hours, then for Christ sakes call me back.
I sent every piece of paper they asked for within 15 minutes of their request.
I am not "giving up" on this because it is not happening in Internet time. I am giving up on it because I have been spending hours on the phone, I bill myself out @120.00 an hour so it ain't gonna take long before this actually costs me more then the tools are worth.
My missing dealer is just that, missing.
I am the one that told Snap On that I owed them money, not the other way around.
I have taken the high road all along this path, now it has been over 2 months with no contact what so ever.
So just how big of a chill pill does a person need to take after waiting 9 weeks?
I agree with you there. I don't think enough techs. can justify the large price premiums associated for onsite tool dealer service.
I think SO should offer techs. a program where they'd provide expedited shipping and more competitive prices. They could still offer financing programs.
Robert,
I agree that the dealer going AWOL is a lousy situation to be in.
But from your thread it sounds like you've only been dealing with SO Corp. for a few days.
If SO Corp. has been stonewalling you for 9 weeks then I retract my "chill pill" statement. I work and deal with large corporations all the time and sometimes things take time to get worked out.
Yes, the lady should have called you back but maybe shes didn't have the answers she was expecting to have from others in the organization. I agree she should have probably called to say, "I'm still working the issue but need more time".
Good luck.
TheGrooveking
Well-known member
Don't give me that human ****, death is not acceptable, simple, Snap On's system of dealer / customer support is sub-standard, yet their pricing is not. Shaun, you've gone beyond the norm to try and help the OP, but Snap On themselves seem to not care, or at least deserve an Oscar for the performance.
TheGrooveking
mrshaun
Well-known member
I understand the deal, But snap on is not liable for what the dealer does. Just like any other franchise. Independently owned stores pay for insurance against stuff like this.
go to the guys house then we will see what happens........
go to the guys house then we will see what happens........
MN4x4
Well-known member
I don't think it will take nearly that long, and I'm not just talking about SO. I am not a professional mechanic, but I am a professional marketing guy and product manager.
Rant ON...
If you ask me exactly what a truck-dealer provides, I think a good one....
• Has the latest tools for you to touch and try
• Has knowledge of your toolbox and business, and can offer meaningful opinions if you have a tool-related question
• May offer a (weekly) payment plan for people who aren't exactly bad credit, but just can't seem to make a payment unless they are reminded
• Takes tools/boxes in trade so you can move up the line
• Offers a convenient way for you to purchase new tools and exchanges defective tools for you quickly and efficiently so you can get back to work
In the fairly recent past, the only way to learn about new tools was from a friend, a magazine, a trade show, or the tool guy. When that was true, the truck-dealer was as eagerly anticipated as the 'Wells Fargo Wagon' of old. He always had news - a story to tell about a tool or the line in general - and people couldn't wait for him to show up. If he missed a visit you worried that you might be missing out on the latest time-saving device.
These days anyone can jump on the internet and find a myriad of product reviews and opinions. I can often get better answers to my tool questions from forums like this than what a truck-dealer might tell me, even if I respect him. People on this forum are varied enough in skills, backgrounds, and opinions, that I almost always find that someone has already asked the question or made the point that I had.
So what keeps a truck dealer in business these days? Looking at the list above, I'd say two things - convenience and 'real' customer service. If they DON'T show up with a well-stocked truck, they're dead before they start. But just having the inventory is not enough. They need the other aspects of customer service:
Dependable - shows up a regular basis or promptly when called
Product support - quick no-hassle exchanges or returns)
Product knowledge - knows their stuff
Customer knowledge - knows YOUR stuff, i.e., what tools should you have that you don't, and why?
If you think about the tool-truck guys that call on you now, how many pass this test? If you have ANY that do, treasure and support them. They're a rare breed.
The rest - well, they'll be gone in a few months. If they are replaced at all it will likely be by a string of similar disappointments, until finally nobody represents the line anymore.
In my opinion the tool companies are scripting their own demise. They continue to THINK that they are a premium product, but - as evidenced by this thread - are doing less and less to deliver on the 'premium' part and relying more on their past to prop up high prices and mediocre service. We - the tool buyers, their customers of today - are smarter than that. We can easily compare notes with others and determine what is real VALUE versus marketing HYPE.
If the tool-truck companies can deliver a superior product and experience, they will thrive even in a challenging economy. If they can't - or WON'T (i.e this thread) - they will cease to exist.
I, for one, am anxious to see how this saga plays out...
Rant OFF
" May offer a (weekly) payment plan for people who aren't exactly bad credit, but just can't seem to make a payment unless they are reminded" MN4X4
The importance of the weekly payment plan is huge. Professional Technicians have come to expect a weekly payment plan with no interest. There are many reasons for it, from my past experience most technicians have a set amount of money to spend per week on tools, which their signifigant other may or may not know about. A successful mobile tool distributor will finance 75 to 80% of their sales on a truck account. So the service, quality, and personal relationship (don't underestimate the power of personal selling - KIRBY VACCUM Cleaners are still around even though there are less expensive options that do the job) are really important but the INTEREST FREE FINANCING with weekly payments will keep the mobile distrubution alive, in my opinion.
Mk
The importance of the weekly payment plan is huge. Professional Technicians have come to expect a weekly payment plan with no interest. There are many reasons for it, from my past experience most technicians have a set amount of money to spend per week on tools, which their signifigant other may or may not know about. A successful mobile tool distributor will finance 75 to 80% of their sales on a truck account. So the service, quality, and personal relationship (don't underestimate the power of personal selling - KIRBY VACCUM Cleaners are still around even though there are less expensive options that do the job) are really important but the INTEREST FREE FINANCING with weekly payments will keep the mobile distrubution alive, in my opinion.
Mk
Premium pricing HAS to be supported by product differentiation. A product or service has to stand above and beyond its competition by a margin at least as wide as the pricing gap.
In today's world, with all the choices available, that's a TAAALLLLL order for any truck dealer, even one that meets all of the criteria that you mentioned.
dkroth
Well-known member
MN4x4 is right on the mark here.
I suggested in another thread that pros (people with a regular tool-truck dealer) should be allowed to place orders on-line that would be fulfilled by their regular truck guy. It leverages all the positive points of having a truck on-site and offers the advantage of the internet.
Requests for tools could be transmitted to the driver immediately. If the tool is in stock and truck is in the area, it could make a non-scheduled stop to deliver the new tool in short time. If the tool is special order, it could be put in the pipeline as soon as the customer presses the Enter key, short circuiting a week of delay waiting for the next visit to order the tool.
Daddy_Rabbit
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********. if the franchise-owner/dealer is not conducting business that meets the corporate standards then said dealer should lose his franchise.
it happens every day in the food service industry.
Why?? buysnapon.com could offer something like Amazon Prime where orders get shipped in a couple days. That would be way faster then waiting for a dealer to make his regular rounds. (UPS comes every day not once every 2 weeks)
Buysnapon.com could also offer buy now/pay later plans.
Based on feedback here, snapon warranty returns are hit and mis with dealers but pretty good through corporate.
The only advantage left with the old sale model would be dealers that have the expertise to offer solutions vs. being order takers.
Griff93
Well-known member
Snap on may not be directly responsible for the actions of it's dealers but I'd bet they are legally liable. If there was a lawsuit against a dealer you can bet SO corporate would also be named in the suite.
Unfortunately, there's great dealers out there and there's horrible dealers out there. We have one in town that's really good. We have another one that I've personally caught doing fraudulent business practices.
I think SO corp should step up and take care of the OP as long as he has the documentation to back up what he has said here. They should then deal with their dealer later after the customer is taken care of. It's part of the cost of doing business.
Daddy_Rabbit
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hey Griff ... huntsville area here too ... MSFC to be precise.
cherokee140
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That one was so good it made the Dr. Pepper come out my nose.
Tell me now what does it say on the side of the truck.
If you have a franchise you are expeted to operate it to a standard set fourth by the corp offices....be it snap on or McDonalds, there are ways of doing business that they want. I know of one McDonalds that was closed down by corp. for not doing what they where supose to do.
Keep trying to push the Kool-Aid....too bad many are not taking anymore...its a shame Snap-On makes good tools no doubt about that...we are talking about how they get into the people that use them hands.
j6508
Member
Many years ago we had a dealer that was telling his wife that he was going out on his rout when he was going and hangin out with his girlfriend, Troy origanaly came around every week then it turned to every two weeks. In the end he took a ton of money from guys and never reported it.
Then when Rich came around almost a year latter trying to colect the money and his records showed that everyone owed a lot more money than they did he caught hell about it. ( This is back in the day of hand writen recits and carbon paper that faided over time. ) None the less long story short I owed troy $102 or some trivial small amount Ritch voided the remaining ballance in a good faith effort and to try and save face for snap on. since ritch got everything straigtened out we have been through 3 dealers And now we have the best dealer I have ever met.
I broke my foot last year on my wheeler and had to take a few months off to heal. when snap on credit started calling me I called my local dealer and he took the time to get me refinanced with them and got most of my over due payments refinanced to get me back in good graces with snap on credit. He had to use some of his own money to do this.
The whole thing hear is their are good guys out threr and not so good ones. And we pay the premum price for a servace, they come to US every week and they fix our broken stuff,If I owned husky or craps man tools I would have to take my own time and go have them warentyed weekly add that up over a few years and tell me what is that worth? ya snap on is expensive but it is a quality tool and for us wrench monekeys we need quality and convenence.
Then when Rich came around almost a year latter trying to colect the money and his records showed that everyone owed a lot more money than they did he caught hell about it. ( This is back in the day of hand writen recits and carbon paper that faided over time. ) None the less long story short I owed troy $102 or some trivial small amount Ritch voided the remaining ballance in a good faith effort and to try and save face for snap on. since ritch got everything straigtened out we have been through 3 dealers And now we have the best dealer I have ever met.
I broke my foot last year on my wheeler and had to take a few months off to heal. when snap on credit started calling me I called my local dealer and he took the time to get me refinanced with them and got most of my over due payments refinanced to get me back in good graces with snap on credit. He had to use some of his own money to do this.
The whole thing hear is their are good guys out threr and not so good ones. And we pay the premum price for a servace, they come to US every week and they fix our broken stuff,If I owned husky or craps man tools I would have to take my own time and go have them warentyed weekly add that up over a few years and tell me what is that worth? ya snap on is expensive but it is a quality tool and for us wrench monekeys we need quality and convenence.
OP
Robert Haas
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Spoke to SO corporate again this morning.
Official line is they are very sorry for how this has gone, they will not be able to complete any "open" transactions at this time.
I asked for clarification and was told that the regional representative would be in my area before the end of the year and that he/she would contact me by phone and arrange a meeting at my shop.
I asked for the persons name and was told that could not be divulged to me at this time, however I would receive an official letter in the next few days.
My response to SO is this,
To whom it may concern;
I have been attempting to complete several open business transactions with %%%%, My local dealer. He has been missing since the last week in August of this year.
Attached you will find copies of the invoices as well as the noted back ordered items. As you will note all these items are pre paid in full and i have attached copies of the processed checks sent to me from my bank.
I also have an outstanding balance on this dealers truck for $875.75 for other tools I have in my possession.
As this matter has now been basically placed in limbo and I have not been allowed to be told of the status of this situation I will now consider the matter closed and will ignore any attempts by you to collect monies from myself or my business in this matter. The items owed to me are valued at $804.40 using your on line pricing so with tax we are very near even.
I will be satisfied with a letter confirming this and it can be delivered to me by your area sale manager on the pre arranged dates.
Sincerely
Robert Haas
Official line is they are very sorry for how this has gone, they will not be able to complete any "open" transactions at this time.
I asked for clarification and was told that the regional representative would be in my area before the end of the year and that he/she would contact me by phone and arrange a meeting at my shop.
I asked for the persons name and was told that could not be divulged to me at this time, however I would receive an official letter in the next few days.
My response to SO is this,
To whom it may concern;
I have been attempting to complete several open business transactions with %%%%, My local dealer. He has been missing since the last week in August of this year.
Attached you will find copies of the invoices as well as the noted back ordered items. As you will note all these items are pre paid in full and i have attached copies of the processed checks sent to me from my bank.
I also have an outstanding balance on this dealers truck for $875.75 for other tools I have in my possession.
As this matter has now been basically placed in limbo and I have not been allowed to be told of the status of this situation I will now consider the matter closed and will ignore any attempts by you to collect monies from myself or my business in this matter. The items owed to me are valued at $804.40 using your on line pricing so with tax we are very near even.
I will be satisfied with a letter confirming this and it can be delivered to me by your area sale manager on the pre arranged dates.
Sincerely
Robert Haas
mrshaun
Well-known member
Robert it looks like a wash to me. did you ever go by the guys house?
In my business, I use process servers (constables) frequently to serve papers and collect debts (court ordered judgements, only -- not disputes such as yours).
The point is that process servers are trained and highly skilled at finding people who don't want to be found. Perhaps a constable can locate the guy for you and even set up a meeting.
The other suggestion would be to ask along the guys route. Surely you know some of his other (former??) customers. Someone knows something about him.
Dealing with this at the franchise grantor level is like trying to get McDonalds Corporate to send you a big mac as you have sadly learned by experience.
The point is that process servers are trained and highly skilled at finding people who don't want to be found. Perhaps a constable can locate the guy for you and even set up a meeting.
The other suggestion would be to ask along the guys route. Surely you know some of his other (former??) customers. Someone knows something about him.
Dealing with this at the franchise grantor level is like trying to get McDonalds Corporate to send you a big mac as you have sadly learned by experience.
Sloper0204
Well-known member
Piece of advice, if you do send that letter to corporate, make sure you send it certified so they can't play the "That was never received/sent through the proper channels." card.
scott37300
Well-known member
I really thought snap on would come threw for you. All the bad publicity over a couple hundred in tools. Snap on expects you to wait around for four months waiting for tools you need to earn a paycheck?
And you shouldn't have to go to the dealers house, that is one of the reasons you pay such high prices-to have the dealer come to you, remember ease of warranty. But you can bet I would be at his house.
I can't believe snap on won't even give you the regional sales number. They left you totally hanging dry. You make your living with these tools and they told you to go play in the corner until they feel like talking to you. So you need to replace these tools in order to make a living and they don't care enough to try and keep you from getting new tools from a different company.
Personally I would have asked to speak to the customer service manager and keep climbing the ladder explaining you need your tools you paid for and will not wait any longer. If they will not help you out you will cancel all business with snap on and be forced to buy all of your tools from somewere else.
Sorry to hear you got screwed.
And you shouldn't have to go to the dealers house, that is one of the reasons you pay such high prices-to have the dealer come to you, remember ease of warranty. But you can bet I would be at his house.
I can't believe snap on won't even give you the regional sales number. They left you totally hanging dry. You make your living with these tools and they told you to go play in the corner until they feel like talking to you. So you need to replace these tools in order to make a living and they don't care enough to try and keep you from getting new tools from a different company.
Personally I would have asked to speak to the customer service manager and keep climbing the ladder explaining you need your tools you paid for and will not wait any longer. If they will not help you out you will cancel all business with snap on and be forced to buy all of your tools from somewere else.
Sorry to hear you got screwed.
mrshaun
Well-known member
you did read that he owes money as well.....
I hardly think that the fact that OP was "screwed" has much to do with money. By the shear numbers, it seems like OP made out by around 70 bucks.
The screwing stems from the facts that:
- There are quantifiable (albeit nonrecoverable) damages resulting from him not being able to complete work efficiently given that ordered tools were never delivered.
- He has no dealer to order new tools from or perhaps more importantly process his warranty claims.
- He may experience stress given the frustration with attempts to clear a balance with money no one seems willing to take.
- Investments in tool truck brand tools are made with the implied expectation of the franchisee being there to represent the brand and service the customer on an ongoing basis with a consistent schedule. Otherwise the value of that investment is measurably diminished.
...but then again, he is still 70 bucks ahead.
The screwing stems from the facts that:
- There are quantifiable (albeit nonrecoverable) damages resulting from him not being able to complete work efficiently given that ordered tools were never delivered.
- He has no dealer to order new tools from or perhaps more importantly process his warranty claims.
- He may experience stress given the frustration with attempts to clear a balance with money no one seems willing to take.
- Investments in tool truck brand tools are made with the implied expectation of the franchisee being there to represent the brand and service the customer on an ongoing basis with a consistent schedule. Otherwise the value of that investment is measurably diminished.
...but then again, he is still 70 bucks ahead.
He's not seventy bucks ahead if Snap-On corporate decides to send a collection agency after the debt. I think this ought to get resolved, and I'd suggest to Robert that he start another thread in the tool forum that's about the new issue -- that Snap-On isn't honoring these transactions in spite of extensive documentation. All to save themselves $800 (that's what, the price of a screwdriver set?).
Assuming the situation is as Robert describes, I think that kind of corporate arrogance deserves to have a light shined on it, with the situation briefly summarized in the post. Sooner or later, the thread will get forwarded to someone at Snap-On's executive level. Hopefully, that person will be embarrassed and will do something about it.
Geez. He has the receipts and the cancelled checks. It's only $800 worth of tools. That might mean Snap-On corp might be on the hook for a hundred actual dollars to make a long-time customer (who clearly paid for the tools) happy.
Assuming the situation is as Robert describes, I think that kind of corporate arrogance deserves to have a light shined on it, with the situation briefly summarized in the post. Sooner or later, the thread will get forwarded to someone at Snap-On's executive level. Hopefully, that person will be embarrassed and will do something about it.
Geez. He has the receipts and the cancelled checks. It's only $800 worth of tools. That might mean Snap-On corp might be on the hook for a hundred actual dollars to make a long-time customer (who clearly paid for the tools) happy.