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Need suggestion concerning a floor coating

rickzack

Active member
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
25
Location
Ohio
Well my current new build project is finally wrapping up. I will not digress and post the issues I am having with the builder. I decided to go with 4000 psi fiber reinforced concrete utilizing Interstar dry mix concrete color in a dark gray color. The attached pictures show the floor after a few weeks. The concrete was sealed soon after the pour utilizing a product called RezSeal. The floor looked great until some of the subs decided to treat it with an "I could give a sh2t attitude". We covered the floor with a 4 mil plastic covering before the dry wall subs started. I came back from a business trip and they had ripped up the plastic and my floor was covered in drywall mud, spilled coffee and diesel fuel. At this stage recovering the floor would do no good.

I originally went with a colored concrete to avoid having to go through the steps of coating the floor. My floor now looks worse than sh2t. The builder is totally clueless and thought he could just reapply the RezSeal. It appears there was more going on other than the fuel and **** eating away the RezSeal. The floor was dark gray in areas and lighter gray in other areas. Needless to say I was not happy with what I was looking at. The builder thought he could use a biodegradable remover on the RezSeal. If you have ever worked with this product it is very hard to remove even with solvent based strippers. I was against this because I did not want to chance the solvent based remover to run down the new driveway and get splashed on my walls and new door.

At this stage I believe two items have gone wrong, the initial mixing of the color and cure as well as the seal coat being stripped in areas. I suggested the builder grind the concrete and polish the concrete. This would remove the RezSeal and give us a good base to determine what type of coating to go with. He feels he is done grinding. I have the sand aggregate showing in areas and the scratched cream layer in others. I have gone around and around trying to tell him he needs at least two finer grits of abrasive wheels to remove the scratches. I also believe he should take the entire floor down to the sand level, apply a hardener, and then stain it with a color that would get me close to the original color. The weather is a factor because the slab is probably below 50 degrees. The garage is heated but going into January, the Ohio weather will be cold and hard to get the slab temperature up. Below is the latest email from the builder

I am just checking in to see if you have heard from Ken about the floor product he mentioned or if you have found anything you like yet, I called a local supplier and they suggested the colored acrylic sealant from H&C sherwin williams. This is their product I found online http://www.hcconcrete.com/products/solid-color-stains/solvent-based-sealer/ I also called Stardek and spoke with their President and he also has an acrylic sealant. He didn't mention any overlays, but he also said they have a product called Dorothane which can only be found in their tech sheet web page http://www.stardek.com/techreports.php He said this is the top of the line product, It is some type of polymer, he said this is what he has in his garage and it comes in the same colors as the Stardek I chart.
>
> I returned the machine today, the weekly rental was up today and I think that I got the as muck out of it as I am going to get. So now We need to nail down a finishing product so we know what else needs to be done to the floor for proper installation.

> please let me know when you decide what you want to use on the floor. Also let me know when the plumbing is ready for inspection so I can get it called in.

At this stage I am ready to explode. He has no understanding of what he needs to do to make this situation correct. The floor is not what I ordered or what I am paying for. I told him today he needed to bring in an experienced crew to finish the floor to a standard I will accept. I will be holding back substantial funds from the last payment until I am satisfied with the floor. This has been going on for weeks. What type of product or what next step is needed for the floor. The pictures represent what the floor looked like a few weeks after the pour. The other pictures are what the floor looks like now. I have put water on the floor to simulate what a clear sealer would highlight. Hopefully you can see the exposed aggregate in areas and the original color with RezSeal left untouched around the perimeter. I have no idea what he plans for the perimeter where the RezSeal remains. There are not many products that will adhere to RezSeal. Any suggestions concerning what products to use or information about Dorothane?
Thanks and sorry for being long winded.
 

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Kevin54

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Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
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Urbana, Ohio
:wtf: Wow!!!!! :willy_nil I don't know what I'd do with the floor, but I know what I'd do with the contractor :bigun2: Good luck. One of the expert floor guys will chime in and help you out.
 
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SC-Eric

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
833
Location
Spartanburg, SC

RezSeal is a simple solvent based acrylic copolymer sealer. It is pretty much exactly the same thing as our AcryliSeal 3401 (not the waterbased 3501). Anytime you see 'Acrylic Copolymer' it is another way to say 'WEAK STUFF'. An exception to that rule would be if it was a nanopolymer which makes it stronger. Diesel fuel, brake fluid, Sulfuric acid (battery acid)... well... just about any chemical found in the common garage will eat or dissolve it.

The builder thought he could use a biodegradable remover on the RezSeal. If you have ever worked with this product it is very hard to remove even with solvent based strippers. I was against this because I did not want to chance the solvent based remover to run down the new driveway and get splashed on my walls and new door.
Our OrganiStrip 901 has been used many times to remove this product. In fact we had a contractor remove 20,000 ft2 of it with it where someone did shoddy concrete work and tried to use 1/4" of this to cover it up... DOH!

Good thinking about the solvent based running down the driveway... because it probably would have. Even with the solvent based, the problem is that when the solvent evaporates the acrylic will redeposit on the floor.

My Suggestions:
RUN from Sherwin Williams...

Stardeck is a decent company. An aliphatic polyester urethane (Durathane) will be a pretty durable product. HOWEVER, there is something else to consider. It is going to highlight areas of the floor just like another coat of RezSeal would. Again, the urethane is going to be more durable.

Another consideration would be... Just how good is that vapor barrier under your concrete. You see, as I already mentioned, acrylic copolymer coatings have very weak adhesion and poor barrier properties. The urethane is going to give you much better barrier properties.

Here is why it matters:
If you have vapor coming up through your concrete then a coating with weak barrier properties will just allow it to pass right through. The weak adhesion of the acrylic won't really matter since the pressure is dissipated. Now, if you add a coat of a product with good barrier properties it can trap the pressure. Since the acrylic has a simple weak physical bond it will probably break under the pressure and delaminate. So, since the urethane is on top of it, it's going to delaminate with it. It's like putting masking tape over scotch tape. If the scotch tape comes up and the masking tape is on top of it then it is going to come up with it. (epoxy would be more like duct tape).

SO...

Adding a couple more coats of the RezSeal would be the lowest risk for the contractor. You probably won't be happy.

Adding the urethane will be a higher risk for you because it may not fail for 8-9 months.

Adding an overlay could work but would be just as much work and simply shotblasing and adding a quality coating system.

If you choose to add a quality coating system... insist on 100% solids materials since there is no point putting weak stuff on a 4000 psi fiber reinforced floor!
 
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rickzack

Active member
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
25
Location
Ohio
I appreciate your response. I just received an email from the builder saying I am holding him up because i have not made a decision concerning what direction to go. I kindly reminded him it is within my authority to have this slab removed and re-poured to the specifications listed in the contract. I do not want to be this type of person but I did nothing to cause his issues. What if any products that Wolverine manufactures would you recommend to get this slab to quality looking level? If you are not comfortable in discussing your products on this open forum, what would be the best way to contact you?

Thanks again for your response!

Rick
 
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