No room in main box for pole barn!

[klogan121]

I need to run power to pole barn from my main house panel. Problem is, house panel is full! Is it possible to tap off the main lugs in the house panel to a side panel, then from the side panel to the pole barn?

I do not want to have to install a bigger main panel if not necessary!

Thanks for any input!

Kevin

 

[PassnThru]

I wouldn't think you would want to do that. An inspection would definitely be out of the question. I'm not an electrician but I can't imagine that passing.
Now - these types of questions are always the most interesting as codes are debated. Although in this case there probably won't be anything to debate. Oh well - I should probably make some popcorn anyway

 

[mrb]

post a picture of your main panel

 

[klogan121]

post a picture of your main panel

Here are pictures of the main panel.

Thanks again!

 

[mrb]

(forgetting about load calcs for second) you can put a subpanel next to that panel by relocating two circuits to the subpanel, feeding the subpanel from the pair of breaker spaces which are now available, and feed the barn from the subpanel. I would stay away from GE tandems.

Whats the deal with the SO cord in the panel?

 

[klogan121]

(forgetting about load calcs for second) you can put a subpanel next to that panel by relocating two circuits to the subpanel, feeding the subpanel from the pair of breaker spaces which are now available, and feed the barn from the subpanel. I would stay away from GE tandems.

Whats the deal with the SO cord in the panel?

For a generator plug. I know, I need a proper transfer switch for generator use when power goes out. Previous homeowner had a rash of power outages in the area at one time, the SO cord was put in (cheap fix) to power certain circuits (basic lighting, freezer) when power went out. I don't like the idea of shutting down main and every breaker, then only turning on certain breakers (light, freezer) with generator power.

 

[rodnok1]

I would install a sub panel next to it and transfer a few circuits from main to sub panel, then run from main panel to pole barn. Since you're going to install a transfer switch anyways make those circuits run into the new sub panel.

 

[mrb]

For a generator plug. I know, I need a proper transfer switch for generator use when power goes out. Previous homeowner had a rash of power outages in the area at one time, the SO cord was put in (cheap fix) to power certain circuits (basic lighting, freezer) when power went out. I don't like the idea of shutting down main and every breaker, then only turning on certain breakers (light, freezer) with generator power.

WTF man! you have a generator inlet (or male plug) on that to backfeed your panel, without a proper interlock or transfer switch? You need to remove that NOW before you kill a lineman.

 

[klogan121]

WTF man! you have a generator inlet (or male plug) on that to backfeed your panel, without a proper interlock or transfer switch? You need to remove that NOW before you kill a lineman.

Disconnected. Done.

 

[timewarp]

Now that you took the SO out of that breaker, use it to feed your sub panel.
(unless there were other wires in the breaker that I couldn't see on the original picture)

 

[nehog]

is it me, or does this seem to be the ideal time to install a proper (automatic, or whatever that meets code) generator cut-over switch? With all the circuits in the new box being feed from either the generator or the utility power?

 

[Norcal]

For a generator plug. I know, I need a proper transfer switch for generator use when power goes out. Previous homeowner had a rash of power outages in the area at one time, the SO cord was put in (cheap fix) to power certain circuits (basic lighting, freezer) when power went out. I don't like the idea of shutting down main and every breaker, then only turning on certain breakers (light, freezer) with generator power.

The panel is a GE & there are other makes in the panel that may or may or may not be prohibited in it (breakers look to be Bryant/Westinghouse/Cutler-Hammer BR) that being said, it needs to be verified that twin breakers are are allowed in the remaining spaces & if so, swap out some of the full size breakers for twins to free up some space in the panel, one note: Only GE twin breakers fit GE panels, other makes will not fit.

Others have commented about the improper genny backfeed so I will say no more.

 

[JBurgess]

The neutrals and grounds should not be sharing a screw. Perhaps Norcal knows how many grounds can share a screw.

 

[Norcal]

The neutrals and grounds should not be sharing a screw. Perhaps Norcal knows how many grounds can share a screw.

Only 1 neutral per screw is allowed, if panel label states it's OK, 2 or maybe 3 grounding conductors per screw & they would have to be the same size & material but this only if allowed per UL listing.

 

[klogan121]

Others have commented about the improper genny backfeed so I will say no more.

Learning lots from others on this forum and from previous homeowners mistakes! Last thing I want with my house is an unsafe panel. Going forward with a PROPER generator transfer switch.

 

[mrb]

Learning lots from others on this forum and from previous homeowners mistakes! Last thing I want with my house is an unsafe panel. Going forward with a PROPER generator transfer switch.

do you realize why its so bad? Two things: with utility power present, if your generator breaker is on the male prongs of your plug are live and can electrocute someone. If utility power is out and you are running your generator and you (or someone else) forgets to turn off the main, you will feed power back out to the grid, the transformer between you and the high voltage lines serving you will step the voltage up and can kill a lineman working a mile away...

 

[Torque1st]

Some Main breaker panels have an available breaker lockout mechanism. It interconnects the Main breaker with the breaker for the generator. If available they are not expensive. The interlock prevents both breakers from being ON at the same time. You would have to turn OFF all the breakers you did not want to power with the generator manually.

 

[JBurgess]

Some Main breaker panels have an available breaker lockout mechanism. It interconnects the Main breaker with the breaker for the generator. If available they are not expensive. The interlock prevents both breakers from being ON at the same time. You would have to turn OFF all the breakers you did not want to power with the generator manually.

Best to check with your utility and see if they aprove that type. Mine requires an open type transfer switch.

 

[Aceman]

www.interlockkit.com is one solution. You can pick up generator inlets through Northern I believe also. Another one: http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-PB30/p1088.html

 

[JBurgess]

Assuming this your utility,

http://www.consumersenergy.com/apps/pdf/Homegeneratorprn_08_05.pdf

"- A double-throw transfer switch, or similarly approved
isolation switch, must be installed to isolate the generator
from Consumers Energy’s distribution system."

 

[klogan121]

do you realize why its so bad? Two things: with utility power present, if your generator breaker is on the male prongs of your plug are live and can electrocute someone. If utility power is out and you are running your generator and you (or someone else) forgets to turn off the main, you will feed power back out to the grid, the transformer between you and the high voltage lines serving you will step the voltage up and can kill a lineman working a mile away...

Your busting my balls pretty good here! YES I realize why this is so bad! But look at the post on here: www.interlockkit.com, regarding this interlock kit, a metal plate you slide up and down to disable the main or generator breaker. This thing is used to safely back feed a panel with a generator breaker! What do you think of this thing?? With a product like this being sold, there must be lots of panels back fed the way mine was!

 

[klogan121]

Assuming this your utility,

http://www.consumersenergy.com/apps/pdf/Homegeneratorprn_08_05.pdf

"- A double-throw transfer switch, or similarly approved
isolation switch, must be installed to isolate the generator
from Consumers Energy’s distribution system."

Thank you for the info! Clarifies what I need for a proper transfer switch.

 

[Torque1st]

The interlock kit provides the double throw transfer switch function.

 

[JBurgess]

The interlock kit provides the double throw transfer switch function.

No argument there, but some utilities, like mine will not acccept them.

From my utility:

1. For Customer load normally served by SRP, where the load may be switched to a generator or alternate service, a visible, open transition type transfer switch shall be installed (non-draw out circuit breakers are not considered a visible disconnect). This switch shall electrically and mechanically prevent connection of the Customer’s generator or paralleling of services to SRP’s grid (see figure below).

 

[hidollartoys]

OK what about his panel question?

 

[babzog]

For a generator plug. I know, I need a proper transfer switch for generator use when power goes out. Previous homeowner had a rash of power outages in the area at one time, the SO cord was put in (cheap fix) to power certain circuits (basic lighting, freezer) when power went out. I don't like the idea of shutting down main and every breaker, then only turning on certain breakers (light, freezer) with generator power.

That's how my home is wired too. Pony panel in shop has a breaker and wire/plug for a genny. When the power goes out, I shut off the mains and the waterfurnace, head to the shop, fire up the genny then flip the breaker to re-energize the house. Not ideal (I didn't do it) but I'm not yet prepared to rip open the wall downstairs to add on a second panel/transfer switch and all the added junction boxes & re-wiring to deal with a (maybe) twice yearly extended loss of power.

 

[Coach James]

(forgetting about load calcs for second) you can put a subpanel next to that panel by relocating two circuits to the subpanel, feeding the subpanel from the pair of breaker spaces which are now available, and feed the barn from the subpanel. I would stay away from GE tandems.

Whats the deal with the SO cord in the panel?

Which one is the SO cord from the generator?

Also, I can't see the details real good. Are those duplex breakers in the bottom right of the panel?

Thanks

Coach

 

[Torque1st]

A good magnifier function to see details for a mouse that has a spare button:
http://download.cnet.com/Magnifying-Glass/3000-2072_4-10487494.html?tag=mncol
This is similar to the Microsoft Intellimouse function.

 

[klogan121]

A good magnifier function to see details for a mouse that has a spare button:
http://download.cnet.com/Magnifying-Glass/3000-2072_4-10487494.html?tag=mncol
This is similar to the Microsoft Intellimouse function.

A ton of windows opened up when I went to download magnifier! BEWARE!! I had to keep x-ing out of them to make it go away!

 

[klogan121]

Which one is the SO cord from the generator?

Also, I can't see the details real good. Are those duplex breakers in the bottom right of the panel?

Thanks

Coach

The green, white and red wires along the left side of the box is the SO cord.

No, those are not duplex breakers, just slim 15A ones.

Kevin

 

[Torque1st]

A ton of windows opened up when I went to download magnifier! BEWARE!! I had to keep x-ing out of them to make it go away!

It is CNET Download.com. Perfectly safe.

If you have a ton of windows opening there is something wrong with your computer. Possibly a browser "toolbar" you have installed or spyware or adware programs.